Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday February 19, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2020, 09:50 PM   #76
Scooby-Doode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28976
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2016 Step 2 Push
Buggy GT

Default

255HP 4cylinder Supra means next FT86 will have no more than 225HP, if even that.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Scooby-Doode is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-13-2020, 10:06 PM   #77
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:02 PM   #78
bemani
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5673
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Folsom, CA
Vehicle:
05 LGT, 02 bug eye
16 Hellcat, 19 CTR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.
No guarantee that 2022 won't get 400hp and a manual.
bemani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:05 PM   #79
Ultimateone
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 48025
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: By the Ocean, MA
Vehicle:
17 BMW M2
AW

Default

Man I would be pissed if I got a 2020, this is nuts
Ultimateone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 02:50 AM   #80
BeepBoop
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 496462
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: MN
Default

I wouldn't buy a supra till it got the M engine, or a truly bespoke toyotified m3-esq variant of the b58 with it's own engine code. I vote BJZ
BeepBoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 05:50 AM   #81
SubaDuba420
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102793
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Ugly Sedan

Default 4Cyl Confirmed

IT's coming:

2021 Toyota Supra Adds 255-HP Turbo Four, and Inline-6 Gains Power
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/

* The 2021 Toyota Supra will have an updated, more powerful version of the turbocharged inline-six. There's a new four-cylinder engine option, too.
* The six now produces 382 horsepower and 368 lb-ft of torque, while the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder makes 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque.
* Expect to see 2021 Supras at dealers in June. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0 and $50,000 for the Supra 3.0.

Quote:
That 200-pound-lighter, cheaper four-cylinder Supra has a 255-hp turbocharged 2.0-liter that's also sourced from BMW, teamed with an eight-speed automatic transmission. Toyota claims a zero-to-60-mph time of 5.0 seconds—1.2 seconds quicker than the last Toyota 86 we tested. However, the 2.0 does not use the same differential and adaptive dampers as the more powerful 3.0. It'll also have smaller 18-inch wheels, manually adjustable seats, and an audio system with four speakers compared to the 3.0's 10.

The 2021 Supras will arrive at dealerships in June, and now all come standard with the 2020 3.0 Premium's 8.8-inch touchscreen. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0, $50,000 for the Supra 3.0, $55,000 for the Supra 3.0 Premium, and topping out at $57,000 for the Supra A91 Edition.
No mention of 3 pedals

So only a $10-11k Difference between the current BRZ/GT86 price and this new 4Cyl Supra with 255HP... Hhmmm, where will the new BRZ/GT86 slot in price & power wise??
SubaDuba420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 07:12 AM   #82
jimmi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172959
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Franklin, TN
Vehicle:
'16 Ford GT350, '08
EvoX GSR,01 EclipseGT SDS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
IT's coming:

2021 Toyota Supra Adds 255-HP Turbo Four, and Inline-6 Gains Power
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/

* The 2021 Toyota Supra will have an updated, more powerful version of the turbocharged inline-six. There's a new four-cylinder engine option, too.
* The six now produces 382 horsepower and 368 lb-ft of torque, while the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder makes 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque.
* Expect to see 2021 Supras at dealers in June. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0 and $50,000 for the Supra 3.0.



No mention of 3 pedals

So only a $10-11k Difference between the current BRZ/GT86 price and this new 4Cyl Supra with 255HP... Hhmmm, where will the new BRZ/GT86 slot in price & power wise??
The report was that it would have 255 hp and a turbo engine. Maybe the insiders were confused and it is actually the 4cy Supra.

Honestly at 40k I am not sure. My biggest concern about this car is the BMW engine. Beemers are a money pit once the warranty expires.
jimmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 09:22 AM   #83
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
2015 RWD Camry
Pull me over red

Default

Reports I've read say auto only for both the I-4 and I-6 Supra.

As to the fate of the brz/86 twins, I'd love it if Toyota pulled a GM and let some internal competition ensue camaro/corvette style - NA 2.0 or 2.4 in the entry level and FA2.0DIT or FA2.4DIT for the upper trim in the rebadged Subaru with a 6mt for whatever MSRP makes them the profit they are targeting on a per-unti basis, and the rebadged bimmer gets an entry level turbo I4 and turbo I6 in the upper trim for the 40k and 50k MSRP. There would still be separation in other ways, the 86 is the raw performance oriented 6mt only version (at least for the DIT), the Supra is the Grand Tourer with more power and luxury, a slush box makes sense in that case (especially since they aren't really slushy anymore).

However, that would be a pretty big risk for Toyota in today's market where sports cars, and two doors in general, don't sell that well; but if they are trying to get their performance groove back it's a viable option.
Sid03SVT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 11:55 AM   #84
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Reports I've read say auto only for both the I-4 and I-6 Supra.
Europe is getting AT only for the I-4.
subyski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:01 PM   #85
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bemani View Post
No guarantee that 2022 won't get 400hp and a manual.
Get ready for a GT-R like price and power upgrade ride.
subyski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:05 PM   #86
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'18 Golf R
'14 Outback

Default

2nd year higher hp is kinda like what Subaru did with the 2008/2009 WRX. Those who bought a 2008 got royally screwed. And then the early 2009 adopters got engines with crappy bearings... I managed to pick up a late build 2009 and lucked out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
Honestly at 40k I am not sure. My biggest concern about this car is the BMW engine. Beemers are a money pit once the warranty expires.
It's not the drivetrain that fails, it's the other accessory crap. At least that's been the experience I've seen, as well as most of what I've read. The engines are stout. But like all german cars, they load it up with other stuff that's complicated and eventually fails. This one being a collab with toyota, I'd have a little more confidence, but maybe not as much as if it were a pure toyota.

Although I'll caveat that and say that my old mcs engine which was a bmw/puegeot collaboration was a complete clusterF. But I blame that more on puegeot than bmw.
dwf137 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:05 PM   #87
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimateone View Post
Man I would be pissed if I got a 2020, this is nuts
Not really. The damn thing didn't take off like they wanted it to. Sales weren't there. So they are pouring some kerosene on the fire.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:06 PM   #88
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rich Coast
Vehicle:
Pura vida!
Yellow V standing by

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Not really. The damn thing didn't take off like they wanted it to. Sales weren't there. So they are pouring some kerosene on the fire.
So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:07 PM   #89
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.
At first I figured they were just rating the engine closer to the actual output since dynos had shown that the 2020 was underrated. But it looks like the engine is receiving at least a couple upgrades: "revised dual-branch exhaust manifold with 6 ports instead of to improve heat management, new piston design to decrease compression from 11:1 to 10.2:1 to withstand more boost". And retuned power steering, stability control, active dampers, and rear diff, aluminum strut tower braces, etc.

I wonder what the price increase will be.. it seems like Toyota was already having some difficulty selling the Supra at its current price.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:08 PM   #90
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

382-HP 2021 Toyota Supra Not Coming To Europe Due To Emissions Laws

The Supra in Europe keeps the 335 hp output.

https://www.motor1.com/news/398706/t...pgrade-europe/
subyski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:08 PM   #91
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'18 Golf R
'14 Outback

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?
I don't... it's the same response Subaru had to the 2008 wrx. Lackluster sales, insert some go fast.
dwf137 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 01:47 PM   #92
bemani
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5673
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Folsom, CA
Vehicle:
05 LGT, 02 bug eye
16 Hellcat, 19 CTR

Default

By the time the 2.0 comes out, the MY2020 will probably drop to that same price. Who's going to buy those 2020s now?
bemani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 02:07 PM   #93
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
I don't... it's the same response Subaru had to the 2008 wrx. Lackluster sales, insert some go fast.
Part of Subaru's response was how soft the 08 WRX became. The USDM market didn't want that and people complained. Sales were low because it was recession period. Subaru JDM wanted a comfort vehicle hence why it was a S-GT in its home market.

I don't think people complain about the Supra power as it obviously put out performance numbers that suggest it made more power than advertised. Toyota is "responding" to their plan and that means releasing revisions every year whether it's power, suspension, content, etc. I'm afraid that'll just mean higher prices along the way.

Last edited by subyski; 02-14-2020 at 02:23 PM.
subyski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 02:19 PM   #94
Brahmzy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3293
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CO
Vehicle:
'20 Ascent
'15 XTerra P4X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?
It absolutely was planned - they even stated this publicly, lol.
They said to expect numerous power and performance upgrades as the model years progress. I remember commenting that is sounds like another GT-R setup.
That’s why they chose the B58 - tons of headroom to grow with simple tunes.
Crazy beefy, underrated motors.

No buyers should be surprised by this.
Brahmzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 03:12 PM   #95
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: AMERICA OF AMERICA☜
Vehicle:
.... Fred Dryer as
---HUNTER--->

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
382-HP 2021 Toyota Supra Not Coming To Europe Due To Emissions Laws

The Supra in Europe keeps the 335 hp output.

https://www.motor1.com/news/398706/t...pgrade-europe/
Our Z4 gets 380 hp spec and Europe gets the 340 hp version. So makes sense the Supra won't get the bump either.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 05:59 PM   #96
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:
... 2017 BMW M2
2017 F-150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
It absolutely was planned - they even stated this publicly, lol.
They said to expect numerous power and performance upgrades as the model years progress. I remember commenting that is sounds like another GT-R setup.
Thatís why they chose the B58 - tons of headroom to grow with simple tunes.
Crazy beefy, underrated motors.

No buyers should be surprised by this.
Yeah, they announced prior to launch that each succeeding year or whatever would receive more power / upgrades. The 4 banger was already planned too.

Donít be surprised that with every year they make more power, it cost more. I honestly donít think that throwing more power at it will really drive much more if any sales volume.
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 06:55 PM   #97
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
At first I figured they were just rating the engine closer to the actual output since dynos had shown that the 2020 was underrated. But it looks like the engine is receiving at least a couple upgrades: "revised dual-branch exhaust manifold with 6 ports instead of to improve heat management, new piston design to decrease compression from 11:1 to 10.2:1 to withstand more boost". And retuned power steering, stability control, active dampers, and rear diff, aluminum strut tower braces, etc.

I wonder what the price increase will be.. it seems like Toyota was already having some difficulty selling the Supra at its current price.
The engines actually have different codes (B38B30B vs B58B30C) so there are definitely some mechanical variances. Supra already is a bit of an overachiever so it will be interesting to see the timed performance of the 2021 models as even modest increases in straight line speed should put it in some pretty elite company.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:45 PM   #98
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A garage in the Midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX / 16 STI
17 Golf-R / 16 FiST

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post

No mention of 3 pedals
This is so retarded. Toyoda's Supra introduction to the world was he wanted to bring back the pure sports car.. and introduced it with an AT. Then a 4 banger no one asked for and no mention of MT.

SKIP

Probably going to get me a new 718.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 09:21 PM   #99
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
Viper GTS

Default

Nice to see relevant improvements throughout the lineup.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 10:04 PM   #100
Dex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163775
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Getting schwifty
Vehicle:
2014 Ford Fiester ST
Murica Red

Default

I know people, me included, hate it when people just link drop for articles but here is one explaining why we still don't have a manual: https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-...-transmission/
Dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.