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Old 04-18-2018, 08:23 AM   #51
mcursch88
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and lets be clear, we're talking tire circumference not diameter.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:57 AM   #52
rtv900
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right
around 1/16" in diameter would make a 1/2" circumference change
even air pressure could do that
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:02 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcursch88 View Post
i would beg to differ on the latter. These tires were made in Taiwan.
The tires are made by a very large, reputable tire manufacturer.

More importantly, tires are freaking molded. So the next tire on the line comes out of the same mold 1/2" smaller, but still perfectly round (edit: was assuming diameter was meant)? That's absurd. The only people who would argue that is at all realistic are people who don't understand how the tire is manufactured.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:04 AM   #54
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Edit: You meant 1/2" on circumference. Well that's even more confusing...

There's no way 1/32" difference in tire tread depth (and thus, 1/16 in diameter) of one tire sets off the error code. No possible way. That kind of slight variation occurs all the time just by regular use...making slightly more right turns vs. left, etc. over time.

It's clear we aren't getting great info from the OP. Or at least the shop isn't telling him what really happened.

Last edited by SoapBox; 04-18-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
More importantly, tires are freaking molded. So the next tire on the line comes out of the mold 1/2" smaller? That's absurd. The only people who would argue that are people who don't understand how the tire is manufactured.
not a 1/2" smaller dude, less than 1/16". It's a half inch in circumference.
And this type of thing is where you step out of your element.
You seriously think because something is molded that means it's a totally done deal and every part will come out dead nuts perfect?
Everything from concrete infrastructure to your Transformers collection is molded.
You want to know how molds develop consistency issues?
1) The mating flanges become worn and gradually seat closer and closer than they were designed (parts shrink)
2) The mating surfaces accumulate build up and seat further than they were designed (parts grow)
3) Mating flanges sustain any number of possible types of damage like getting clunked, dropped, or pried on and seat crooked, offset, angled, etc (parts come out skewed, asymmetrical, etc)
4) Internal Mold surfaces become worn and eroded from chemical exposure (parts come out big)
5) Internal Mold surfaces are not cleaned by workers properly and accumulate build up (parts come out small in some areas)
6) Injected material such as rubber goes in hotter than designed for (parts retract and become small)
7) Injected material such as rubber goes in too cool (parts don't retract as designed and come out big)

I don't even know where to stop man. This is why manufacturing is a hell of a lot harder than you think it is. You think there's 2 variables when there's actually 2000.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:15 AM   #56
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See my next post. I thought he was saying diameter. no way it comes out of the mold 1/2" smaller in diameter, yet perfectly round.

I'm fine on manufacturing issues resulting in something more like 1/16"...as you said...that could even be down to air pressure.

But again, 1/32" difference in tread depth DOESN'T trip the light. So we still don't know what happened.

You don't think it's MUCH more likely that the shop put on, say, a 40 series when it should have been a 45? Or something along those lines?

Or...more obviously...his other tires where significantly worn. So the brand new tire is over the threshold, and trips the light? Them "ordering a new tire" consisted of ordering the same tire, albeit shaved.

All seem much more likely.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:21 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
not a 1/2" smaller dude, less than 1/16". It's a half inch in circumference.
And this type of thing is where you step out of your element.
You seriously think because something is molded that means it's a totally done deal and every part will come out dead nuts perfect?
Everything from concrete infrastructure to your Transformers collection is molded.
You want to know how molds develop consistency issues?
1) The mating flanges become worn and gradually seat closer and closer than they were designed (parts shrink)
2) The mating surfaces accumulate build up and seat further than they were designed (parts grow)
3) Mating flanges sustain any number of possible types of damage like getting clunked, dropped, or pried on and seat crooked, offset, angled, etc (parts come out skewed, asymmetrical, etc)
4) Internal Mold surfaces become worn and eroded from chemical exposure (parts come out big)
5) Internal Mold surfaces are not cleaned by workers properly and accumulate build up (parts come out small in some areas)
6) Injected material such as rubber goes in hotter than designed for (parts retract and become small)
7) Injected material such as rubber goes in too cool (parts don't retract as designed and come out big)
In my defense, I clearly said "the next tire on the line"...which eliminates much of your list of causes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
I don't even know where to stop man. This is why manufacturing is a hell of a lot harder than you think it is. You think there's 2 variables when there's actually 2000.
Hey, you're the fake engineer, not me.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:44 AM   #58
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I think I've actually done a heck of a job providing information as best as I could and as clearly laid out as possible (to the best of my understanding.) I believe the readers are confusing themselves. I'm also learning on the fly here.

SoapBox, to clear your convoluted thought process:

-we aren't talking about tread depth...
-do the math on circumference of the tire when an additional 5mm of diameter is added...
-bought the car with new tires, only drove it 3 weeks before accident...
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:55 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
In my defense, I clearly said "the next tire on the line"...which eliminates much of your list of causes.

Hey, you're the fake engineer, not me.
^true, I look fake at first because I wear steel toes to work and I run equipment as needed.

And 'the next one on the line' does not even come close to eliminate my argument. Every single "fill in the blank" produced in any plant at one point was "the next one off the line". If it was that simple anybody could run a plant.
Other than ultra strict aerospace manufacturing, nobody can check every part, that's how big runs of bad parts happen.
Tooling wears, nobody notices, next thing you know there's 500 parts in question.

But I do agree 1/2" in total circumference shouldn't be that big a deal.
I had a leaky valve stem on a front tire recently so bad I had to fill it daily and it would be down 15psi some days. I practically had to hold the wheel sideways to go straight.
My AWD light never came on and there's no way that tire didn't lose more than a half inch in circumference.
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
My AWD light never came on and there's no way that tire didn't lose more than a half inch in circumference.
Correct me if i am wrong here but, why would your AWD light come on for tire pressure...wouldn't your TPMS sensor light be on instead?
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:25 PM   #61
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rtv900 is comparing his large loss of tire pressure, resulting in a greater than 1/2" tire circumference, and his AWD light NOT coming on, to your instance of a 1/2" difference in tire circumference in the new tire, causing your AWD light to come on.

In summary, the 1/2" difference in tire circumference, in and of itself, should not be a reason for the AWD light to come on.

There must be one or more other factors involved here.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:17 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
rtv900 is comparing his large loss of tire pressure, resulting in a greater than 1/2" tire circumference, and his AWD light NOT coming on,
correct^
and since you had three other "like new" tires the mismatch wouldn't have been that excessive
so yeah, probably something else happening too
but you got your car and it's good to go so nothing really to worry about at this point
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #63
mcursch88
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understood.

now, its actually quite alarming that you are insisting something else could be happening. Are you implying that there is something wrong with my AWD system? the car was at the dealers for a month, so I'd like to think that if there was something wrong they would have seen a code or documented any anomalies within the AWD system...

I don't notice anything else wrong with the vehicle during driving, nor do I have a flashing AWD light. I'm still a little confused, but like rtv said "i got my car..."
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcursch88 View Post
understood.

now, its actually quite alarming that you are insisting something else could be happening. Are you implying that there is something wrong with my AWD system? the car was at the dealers for a month, so I'd like to think that if there was something wrong they would have seen a code or documented any anomalies within the AWD system...

I don't notice anything else wrong with the vehicle during driving, nor do I have a flashing AWD light.
They may have "quietly fixed" something and didn't document it. Like, maybe they had an error, found it, and wanted it swept under the rug.
I would just keep an eye on things for now.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:19 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I would just keep an eye on things for now.
It makes sense, albeit very shady, but it still makes sense. I think I will reach out to the dealer and SOA to get a detailed report of what was looked at, and I know it may not contain the potentially hidden fixes.

Thank you all whom looked at this and provided insight. Plus I'm happy to say that there wasn't any negative responses or sarcastic remarks in this thread (like I've seen in almost every other thread on here).

I also got my $150.00 back and the tire!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:28 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcursch88 View Post
Thank you all whom looked at this and provided insight. Plus I'm happy to say that there wasn't any negative responses or sarcastic remarks in this thread (like I've seen in almost every other thread on here).
We will have to try harder next time?!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:50 PM   #67
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lmao, I didn't give you guys anything to snowball from
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