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Old 04-13-2020, 12:16 AM   #151
Ej205wagon
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Wouldnt an oil cooler fix a lot of issues when oil comes to thin?
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:27 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Ej205wagon View Post
Wouldnt an oil cooler fix a lot of issues when oil comes to thin?
I consider an oil cooler to just be a band-aid for the real issue.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:34 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Ej205wagon View Post
Wouldnt an oil cooler fix a lot of issues when oil comes to thin?
No. You can gain back some marginal PSI by dropping temps, but if you have an oil pressure problem, you have an oil pressure problem.

On a Subaru, we don't recommend even installing a remote oil cooler unless you're seeing temps over 250 consistently. On a Subaru you typically need to run the hottest thermostatic adapter to prevent overcooling at speed. When there are no issues, oil temps on these cars generally don't run too hot.
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Old 04-13-2020, 02:07 PM   #154
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The turbo can heat the oil pretty quickly
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:55 AM   #155
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No. You can gain back some marginal PSI by dropping temps, but if you have an oil pressure problem, you have an oil pressure problem.

On a Subaru, we don't recommend even installing a remote oil cooler unless you're seeing temps over 250 consistently. On a Subaru you typically need to run the hottest thermostatic adapter to prevent overcooling at speed. When there are no issues, oil temps on these cars generally don't run too hot.
Off course that wont fix it, if theres an internal oil issue I understand that. I was just answering at wouldn't an oil cooler fix Incase of high temp oil to keep some oil cool from long racing periods, because I had to put a cooler on when I started to roll race in hot days and been high rpms for long period of time when I notice my oil light would take 2 secs to turn off when I re start my car after it already was hot, When before racing my oil light wont even turn on after I start my car again if that makes sense
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:58 AM   #156
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The turbo can heat the oil pretty quickly
Exactly, even tho we have the turbo reservoir but I feel hot coolant wont cool down hot oil feel me... even tho killerb is saying ran a hotter thermostat? For the fan either open up faster and cool the car faster if Im not wrong
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:32 AM   #157
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Exactly, even tho we have the turbo reservoir but I feel hot coolant wont cool down hot oil feel me... even tho killerb is saying ran a hotter thermostat? For the fan either open up faster and cool the car faster if Im not wrong
I think he's referring to a thermostatic oil plate for the oil cooler.
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Old 04-14-2020, 10:20 AM   #158
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I think he's referring to a thermostatic oil plate for the oil cooler.
I never really use one With thermostat, again that comes from I never really seen a car get tune by oil temp I always had believe coolant temps are more important than that unless Im wrong, Im here to learn lol
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:05 PM   #159
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Oil is definitely for cooling. That's its secondary job. Oil can withstand as much or more than coolant can.
With a 28-32 PSI racing radiator cap you can get to 290-300F. Racing oil can be good for 275-300 and intermittently more.
My Mocal thermostatic oil bypass valve is set for 240. At that point it starts going into a big cooler.
I think concerns about problems with a water and oil cooled turbo are overblown. A turbo is seldomly constantly at peak temperature.
Radiator fans are pointless if you are driving/moving more than a snail's pace.
Some put fans on their oil coolers to help in slow traffic or once in the pits.
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:15 PM   #160
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At idle I'm getting a surface temperature of 300 on turbine housing fully heat soaked full exhaust muffler and resonator haven't checked with hood dump I'm gonna put it back on soon I'll check. Turbo is 6466

100 at the compressor side. Same 300 at the chra.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 04-14-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 04-14-2020, 02:01 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Ej205wagon View Post
Exactly, even tho we have the turbo reservoir
The 'turbo reservoir' is not actually a reservoir for the turbo as the slang name it has would lead you to believe. The turbo is fed from the block and then to that reservoir. The coolant in that line is ~240 or so under moderate loads; I've never seen it over 250. The point of that reservoir, that is technically called by Subaru the "Engine Coolant Filler Tank" is to provide a high point fill location.

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Originally Posted by Ej205wagon View Post
but I feel hot coolant wont cool down hot oil feel me... even tho killerb is saying ran a hotter thermostat? For the fan either open up faster and cool the car faster if Im not wrong
Fans are useless if you're moving a decent speed. Oil is always going to be hotter than coolant (or at least it should be). Cooling efficiency is partially determined by temperature differential. So cooling 250 oil with 220 coolant is not nearly as efficient as cooling that oil with 100 air.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ej205wagon View Post
I never really use one With thermostat, again that comes from I never really seen a car get tune by oil temp I always had believe coolant temps are more important than that unless Im wrong, Im here to learn lol
Subaru engines are more sensitive to oil conditions than most cars. Oil temp is the number one gauge I always recommend to anyone wanting to be sure they operate under the most ideal and safest conditions. If we were talking Hondas you could run the crappiest oil money can buy and for twice as long as you should and it wouldn't even matter

Coolant temps are much less important. For example, if you car take 5 miles to get coolant 'to temp' you need to drive another 5 miles for oil to get up to temp. in other words, oil takes ~2X as long to get up to operating temperature when compared to coolant. in fact, the factory oil cooler in every other country in the world except for the US... is called an oil heater because its primary purpose is to get the oil up to ideal operating temperature as quickly as possible (remember, coolant gets hot much faster).
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Old 04-15-2020, 01:22 AM   #162
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The 'turbo reservoir' is not actually a reservoir for the turbo as the slang name it has would lead you to believe. The turbo is fed from the block and then to that reservoir. The coolant in that line is ~240 or so under moderate loads; I've never seen it over 250. The point of that reservoir, that is technically called by Subaru the "Engine Coolant Filler Tank" is to provide a high point fill location.



Fans are useless if you're moving a decent speed. Oil is always going to be hotter than coolant (or at least it should be). Cooling efficiency is partially determined by temperature differential. So cooling 250 oil with 220 coolant is not nearly as efficient as cooling that oil with 100 air.




Subaru engines are more sensitive to oil conditions than most cars. Oil temp is the number one gauge I always recommend to anyone wanting to be sure they operate under the most ideal and safest conditions. If we were talking Hondas you could run the crappiest oil money can buy and for twice as long as you should and it wouldn't even matter

Coolant temps are much less important. For example, if you car take 5 miles to get coolant 'to temp' you need to drive another 5 miles for oil to get up to temp. in other words, oil takes ~2X as long to get up to operating temperature when compared to coolant. in fact, the factory oil cooler in every other country in the world except for the US... is called an oil heater because its primary purpose is to get the oil up to ideal operating temperature as quickly as possible (remember, coolant gets hot much faster).


Thats why I love my Honda well cant really run bad oil in there with a heavy horsepower engine and nice size turbocharger. but this Subaru thing is addicting lmao anyways yes after reading all this I ordered me a oil press and temp gauge to keep an eye on things since like I mention before I been roll or mile race a lot, I ordered the drain plug that would allow me to put my temp sensor in the bottom of my oil pan to keep the oil temp in my face but the way I order that from KillerB Incase someone wants one too, talking about the oil heater I was thinking on deleting it it wouldnt affect much right?
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:34 AM   #163
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talking about the oil heater I was thinking on deleting it it wouldnt affect much right?
Unless a traditional remote oil cooler is needed, I generally like to keep the OEM oil cooler/heater in place. For one, it does get the oil temp up to ideal operating temperatures quicker. Second, if you remove it you need to reroute coolant hoses or change parts (not a big deal, but needs to be done). Lastly, it does help knock a few degrees down from peak oil temps. When I say peak temps I mean the highs when you have power on/power off. When the temp swings up that OEM cooler does prevent it from climbing as high, but in general, it does not lower overall oil temps a meaningful amount.
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Old 04-15-2020, 01:04 PM   #164
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Unless a traditional remote oil cooler is needed, I generally like to keep the OEM oil cooler/heater in place. For one, it does get the oil temp up to ideal operating temperatures quicker. Second, if you remove it you need to reroute coolant hoses or change parts (not a big deal, but needs to be done). Lastly, it does help knock a few degrees down from peak oil temps. When I say peak temps I mean the highs when you have power on/power off. When the temp swings up that OEM cooler does prevent it from climbing as high, but in general, it does not lower overall oil temps a meaningful amount.

Understood, I tho about it because they like to leak from the o ring thats all but for me it dont bother me in any type or form so thats why I asked
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Old 04-15-2020, 11:47 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
I like rcm stuff. Honestly haven't used any but it looks nice and there cars are fast.

But I'm curious what clearances you're running because the pressure seems kinda low for that pump and oil weight. What's oil temp?
Mains are at .0015 rods are at .0019. engine is brand new 1500 mi runs perfect. Ive seen way worse on built engines.
What are you seeing?
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:58 PM   #166
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I have slightly larger clearances then you and I'm seeing 20psi at hot idle with 10w40 1k rpm idle mains are at .0016 and rods are .0019

Same new engine only been on a 200 mile road trip out of state with a dealer plate. Can't put it in the road because covid 19

I've always wanted to get an oil pre heater for those cold starts.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 04-19-2020 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:11 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
I have slightly larger clearances then you and I'm seeing 20psi at hot idle with 10w40 1k rpm idle mains are at .016 and rods are .018

Same new engine only been on a 200 mile road trip out of state with a dealer plate. Can't put it in the road because covid 19

I've always wanted to get an oil pre heater for those cold starts.
Yah im at 25-30 mostly 30 on the hot but if the oil gets above 100c it gets a little low
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:51 PM   #168
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Yah im at 25-30 mostly 30 on the hot but if the oil gets above 100c it gets a little low
Oh ok. I've never got my oil hot enough to see a drop in pressure. Deleted the factory heat exchanger too. Kinda odd if yours is getting that hot.
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #169
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I have slightly larger clearances then you and I'm seeing 20psi at hot idle with 10w40 1k rpm idle mains are at .016 and rods are .018...
Those are "slightly larger" than most of us run! Like 10X.
Even if those were one tenth the size you stated the rod clearances would not be considered large by the race engine crowd and the main clearances would be big.
You haven't related these numbers to any specific type of build. Yours are not average clearances.

What clearances one runs should be referenced to use, torque, RPM's, boost, oil pump, and oil. There is no "one fits all" set of clearances unless you are dead stock and staying dead stock.

Subaru's FSM: Mains - 0.010-0.030 mm (0.0004-0.0012 in)
Rods - 0.017-0.045 mm (0.0007-0.0018 in)
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Old 04-18-2020, 01:49 PM   #170
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What clearances one runs should be referenced to use, torque, RPM's, boost, oil pump, and oil. There is no "one fits all" set of clearances unless you are dead stock and staying dead stock.
We use the same clearances for almost everything. Maybe we are just lucky The caveat with that statement is that ever block is blueprinted to an anal retentive level of precision first. To take it a step further, the main clearances doesn't give a complete story unless you spec bore alignment, concentricity, runout, etc...

FWIW, Mains: .0007 +/-.0001

Rods (unless they are drilled): .0020-.0021
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Old 04-18-2020, 02:23 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
We use the same clearances for almost everything. Maybe we are just lucky The caveat with that statement is that ever block is blueprinted to an anal retentive level of precision first. To take it a step further, the main clearances doesn't give a complete story unless you spec bore alignment, concentricity, runout, etc...

FWIW, Mains: .0007 +/-.0001

Rods (unless they are drilled): .0020-.0021
I agree that you have to check everything or you've got nothing. Trying to hold .001" or less requires a lot of precision. I've had cases that would have never lived as any kind of an engine had I not line bored them.
What "rod" drilling are you referring to? The crank pin journals?
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Old 04-18-2020, 06:24 PM   #172
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I have slightly larger clearances then you and I'm seeing 20psi at hot idle with 10w40 1k rpm idle mains are at .016 and rods are .018
sixteen thousanths, awesome

you could jiggle the rods back and forth on that clearance

There's cupholders that have a better fit
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Old 04-18-2020, 06:37 PM   #173
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What "rod" drilling are you referring to? The crank pin journals?
Rifle drilling. This is for a fairly unique build and we only do it with certain rods and billet crank that does not have shared oiling to the rod pins like the OEM crank.
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Old 04-19-2020, 03:19 AM   #174
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Those are "slightly larger" than most of us run! Like 10X.
Even if those were one tenth the size you stated the rod clearances would not be considered large by the race engine crowd and the main clearances would be big.
You haven't related these numbers to any specific type of build. Yours are not average clearances.

What clearances one runs should be referenced to use, torque, RPM's, boost, oil pump, and oil. There is no "one fits all" set of clearances unless you are dead stock and staying dead stock.

Subaru's FSM: Mains - 0.010-0.030 mm (0.0004-0.0012 in)
Rods - 0.017-0.045 mm (0.0007-0.0018 in)
You know I started to type a great explanation of everything. Then I deleted it all..

But I'll say this my **** runs good with great oil pressure. And I'll end it with why do you even care? Because you want to be right all the time?

That's what I get from your posts in fact most of them. So I won't even get into why what or how with you. Because you can go do some research...

Should I end this with a Paul walker quote. "You can read the brochure"
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Old 04-19-2020, 04:16 AM   #175
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Generally .001" clearance for every 1" diameter journal

Side gap is so important and over looked...

Anyhow I'm not about to get into all this. LoL
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