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Old 11-30-2022, 11:03 AM   #1301
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:38 PM   #1302
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People just need to stop paying the markup, and it'll go away. But as long as there are suckers, those dealers are going to ask for and pocket that cash. Even as supplies increase dealers are going to create the illusion of scarcity to get people to pay for their own new car.
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:22 PM   #1303
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The Geese have a good take on this too.

I'm in the market for something fun, but it won't be the GR Corolla for obvious reasons. I'm seriously considering a new WRX because they're readily available and the dealers aren't putting stratospheric prices on them. They'll hold their value well enough that if something comes up on short notice or if the Corollas ever come back to earth on pricing, I should be able to get out of it fairly painlessly. Or I really like it and just keep it.

I thought about going back to a GTI, but those are few and far between and the ones I can find are marked up.

I really dig the new GR86s, but it's impossible to find those in a color I like with the M/T. I can't find an M/T at all, regardless of the color. The 2024 Mustang GT is a possibility too if I wait long enough, but they're not supposed to be out until next summer.
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:40 PM   #1304
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I've had the same thought about the 2022 WRX. I don't like it, but I can afford it and I'd have a manual + AWD + turbo. According to Subaru's comparison on their site, the Impreza and WRX are basically the same in passenger volume, except for rear passenger headroom is down about an inch. And there's the obvious 8 cubic feet loss of cargo volume.

For the $8k price difference, it's not the worst choice, but it also feels far from the best choice. Cars just suck right now.
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Old 11-30-2022, 05:27 PM   #1305
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The Geese have a good take on this too.
It's a good take. I've walked away from the enthusiast car market for a lot of these reasons. Moved on to a motorcycle and other hobbies.
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Old 11-30-2022, 06:58 PM   #1306
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$15k markup on a Corolluh bwahahahaha there's an idiot born everyday ...
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:31 PM   #1307
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Someone with more free time than me should start pinging these dealers to see if this agreement between all of them to charge $15k over sticker is actually a thing, because I'm pretty sure that's illegal price fixing.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:34 PM   #1308
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I've had the same thought about the 2022 WRX. I don't like it, but I can afford it and I'd have a manual + AWD + turbo. According to Subaru's comparison on their site, the Impreza and WRX are basically the same in passenger volume, except for rear passenger headroom is down about an inch. And there's the obvious 8 cubic feet loss of cargo volume.

For the $8k price difference, it's not the worst choice, but it also feels far from the best choice. Cars just suck right now.
My unasked for opinion: unless itís something you really want, donít spend the money on a depreciating asset. Bank the money or invest it and when you find that money pit you really want, buy it.

Thereís also so much economic uncertainty right around the corner that either you wish you didnít buy something or could buy the thing you want for less.
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:14 PM   #1309
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My unasked for opinion: unless itís something you really want, donít spend the money on a depreciating asset. Bank the money or invest it and when you find that money pit you really want, buy it.

Thereís also so much economic uncertainty right around the corner that either you wish you didnít buy something or could buy the thing you want for less.
I put the $24,600 I got for my 2020 Si into junior gold and silver mining stocks (since I didn't have to buy a replacement).

Jury still out on that.
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:54 PM   #1310
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My unasked for opinion: unless itís something you really want, donít spend the money on a depreciating asset. Bank the money or invest it and when you find that money pit you really want, buy it.

Thereís also so much economic uncertainty right around the corner that either you wish you didnít buy something or could buy the thing you want for less.
Yeah, the fact that I'm currently stuck in New England and my Impreza has been paid off for a while now is what keeps me from just jumping into something else. I do miss having a performance-oriented vehicle, but no one's truly hitting it out of the park at the moment. GRC CE is the top choice, and it'll be fairly Unobtainium for a while.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:19 PM   #1311
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My unasked for opinion: unless itís something you really want, donít spend the money on a depreciating asset. Bank the money or invest it and when you find that money pit you really want, buy it.

Thereís also so much economic uncertainty right around the corner that either you wish you didnít buy something or could buy the thing you want for less.
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Yeah, the fact that I'm currently stuck in New England and my Impreza has been paid off for a while now is what keeps me from just jumping into something else. I do miss having a performance-oriented vehicle, but no one's truly hitting it out of the park at the moment. GRC CE is the top choice, and it'll be fairly Unobtainium for a while.
I've been at the point for some time now, where, if I can't get 0%APR I'm buying it cash; if I can't buy it cash, I'll wait until I can. I WANT a GRC, CE, red; no other trim/color will do, I'm paying the money, I want what I want; if I can't get that at MSRP, or lower, I'm not touching it. There are so many other options out there, CT4-V Blackwing is one of them that I know I'd enjoy more; RWD, significantly more power, but it's GM not Toyota, so I have my worries (having owned GM products over the years).

I'm looking for a balance of driver engagement, performance & usability; I think the GRC might strike that balance, but I won't know until I drive one, which leads to my other car buying mentality; if I haven't driven a reasonably similar example of one, I'm not buying it. I'd be perfectly content driving my IS, auto trans and all, as my "DD"/winter beater, and driving my 66 modern-vintage/resto-mod in the warmer months/when it isn't up on a lift once it's finished; looks like I'm going to be into it ~60k "in the end" (knowing I'll be looking for more power in ~3yrs time; what's another ~10k?), but I honestly don't care; it's a car that is being custom built/tailored to my wants, so it's worth it, at least to me; 70k for some GM modern fast-hot-garbage that will have to be thrown away in 10 years? not worth it to me; my IS isn't fast, but it isn't slow either, and I'm certainly not worried about reliability/dependability.

Sorry all, I have to check myself every now and then, a reality check if you will; the majority of the stuff on the market is more or less intended to be disposed of after 10 years at the most, you can keep it going, but it just won't be worth it. We bought my wife's PHEV with the intention of dumping it at the 10 year mark; the final warranty will be up at that point, and there is way too much going on in there that is going to be outdated by then/not worth fixing.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:26 PM   #1312
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I've been at the point for some time now, where, if I can't get 0%APR I'm buying it cash; if I can't buy it cash, I'll wait until I can. I WANT a GRC, CE, red; no other trim/color will do, I'm paying the money, I want what I want; if I can't get that at MSRP, or lower, I'm not touching it. There are so many other options out there, CT4-V Blackwing is one of them that I know I'd enjoy more; RWD, significantly more power, but it's GM not Toyota, so I have my worries (having owned GM products over the years).

I'm looking for a balance of driver engagement, performance & usability; I think the GRC might strike that balance, but I won't know until I drive one, which leads to my other car buying mentality; if I haven't driven a reasonably similar example of one, I'm not buying it. I'd be perfectly content driving my IS, auto trans and all, as my "DD"/winter beater, and driving my 66 modern-vintage/resto-mod in the warmer months/when it isn't up on a lift once it's finished; looks like I'm going to be into it ~60k "in the end" (knowing I'll be looking for more power in ~3yrs time; what's another ~10k?), but I honestly don't care; it's a car that is being custom built/tailored to my wants, so it's worth it, at least to me; 70k for some GM modern fast-hot-garbage that will have to be thrown away in 10 years? not worth it to me; my IS isn't fast, but it isn't slow either, and I'm certainly not worried about reliability/dependability.

Sorry all, I have to check myself every now and then, a reality check if you will; the majority of the stuff on the market is more or less intended to be disposed of after 10 years at the most, you can keep it going, but it just won't be worth it. We bought my wife's PHEV with the intention of dumping it at the 10 year mark; the final warranty will be up at that point, and there is way too much going on in there that is going to be outdated by then/not worth fixing.
A little discipline in life will save you a ton of money.

Don't be the last one buying into a bubble.

Don't buy bitcoin at $65k.

Don't buy the stock market at 4900.

Don't pay ADM at the end of a car market bubble.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:52 PM   #1313
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I've been at the point for some time now, where, if I can't get 0%APR I'm buying it cash; if I can't buy it cash, I'll wait until I can. I WANT a GRC, CE, red; no other trim/color will do, I'm paying the money, I want what I want; if I can't get that at MSRP, or lower, I'm not touching it. There are so many other options out there, CT4-V Blackwing is one of them that I know I'd enjoy more; RWD, significantly more power, but it's GM not Toyota, so I have my worries (having owned GM products over the years).

I'm looking for a balance of driver engagement, performance & usability; I think the GRC might strike that balance, but I won't know until I drive one, which leads to my other car buying mentality; if I haven't driven a reasonably similar example of one, I'm not buying it. I'd be perfectly content driving my IS, auto trans and all, as my "DD"/winter beater, and driving my 66 modern-vintage/resto-mod in the warmer months/when it isn't up on a lift once it's finished; looks like I'm going to be into it ~60k "in the end" (knowing I'll be looking for more power in ~3yrs time; what's another ~10k?), but I honestly don't care; it's a car that is being custom built/tailored to my wants, so it's worth it, at least to me; 70k for some GM modern fast-hot-garbage that will have to be thrown away in 10 years? not worth it to me; my IS isn't fast, but it isn't slow either, and I'm certainly not worried about reliability/dependability.

Sorry all, I have to check myself every now and then, a reality check if you will; the majority of the stuff on the market is more or less intended to be disposed of after 10 years at the most, you can keep it going, but it just won't be worth it. We bought my wife's PHEV with the intention of dumping it at the 10 year mark; the final warranty will be up at that point, and there is way too much going on in there that is going to be outdated by then/not worth fixing.
Iíll take a loan on a car if it means my cash will generate a higher yield in an investment of some sort. Which typically means a loan south of 4%. Some autos offer 0.9% for 36 months (BMW comes to mind). Right now is definitely not the best time for rates but Iím also not in the market for a fun / 2nd vehicle.

But Iím regards to the 10 year thing. I think the vast majority of people struggle with keeping a ďfun carĒ for 10 years. Hell, most struggle to keep any car for 10 years.

To each their own in what they do with their money in their life. Iíve been resisting the itch for some time to buy a M2C. Could well afford it but timing in my life right now isnít the best. Maybe next year.

Quote:
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A little discipline in life will save you a ton of money.

Don't be the last one buying into a bubble.

Don't buy bitcoin at $65k.

Don't buy the stock market at 4900.

Don't pay ADM at the end of a car market bubble.
This is pretty solid basic advice. Should add ďdonít catch a falling knifeĒ.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:30 PM   #1314
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Iíll take a loan on a car if it means my cash will generate a higher yield in an investment of some sort. Which typically means a loan south of 4%. Some autos offer 0.9% for 36 months (BMW comes to mind). Right now is definitely not the best time for rates but Iím also not in the market for a fun / 2nd vehicle.
But Iím regards to the 10 year thing. I think the vast majority of people struggle with keeping a ďfun carĒ for 10 years. Hell, most struggle to keep any car for 10 years.
To each their own in what they do with their money in their life. Iíve been resisting the itch for some time to buy a M2C. Could well afford it but timing in my life right now isnít the best. Maybe next year.
I agree; I've had my 66 for... well lets say it's been a long time; but in between, I went through several fun/enthusiast/niche vehicles. The difference is I knew my 66 was a "forever car" and the rest were DD's/toys. I've had some fun DD's, I noticed that when my 66 was my fun car, I didn't care how "fun" my DD was; that's not a realistic approach/mentality for a lot of people. To have something that is neither safe nor cheap, and, lets be honest, fairly high maintenance, is a difficult proposition when your rational brain says things like "honda civic, toyota corolla". I'm still in that Ricky Bobby "I just wanna go fast" & have fun state of mind, maybe I'll mellow at some point, but if my history bears any relevance, I don't think it's going to happen.

Admittedly; I do drive my wife's PHEV entirely differently than I do my IS; my goal is efficiency in her CUV, where-as in my IS, I'm gonna get ****e mileage, so I may as well enjoy it. I am very much a "situational driver"; so if I decide a Leaf is the answer, I'm going to attempt to maximize the mi/KWh ratio; but if I decide a Hellcat Charger is the answer, I'm going to maximize that "smiles per gallon" ratio.

I've got to be honest, regardless of the price of gas/electricity or cars, I'm going to drive what I want; I don't have "f-you" money, I probably never will; when I get a raise, the local food pantry gets more donations, but I do "okay".
That is not to say I don't care about the environment, or that my logical brain has no influence whatsoever, more that I realize my monkey brain cares about going fast & juicing that adrenal gland as much as possible, so I've gotta get my kicks somewhere; if that means I drive a leaf, but go sky diving every weekend so be it. There is a balance there, I've just got to find it.

All of that to say, the new hotness isn't worth what they are asking for it; if you are truly looking for a fun, engaging, fulfilling vehicle, buy whatever it was in your formative driving years and make it your own; yeah your daily may be a bland-mobile, but you can still get your kicks, and for a lot cheaper than a modern piece of tech garbage; and lets be honest, for most of us, the "fun vehicle" is going to be the daily whenever possible; hell, I used to daily motorcycles.

YMMV
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:29 AM   #1315
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But Iím regards to the 10 year thing. I think the vast majority of people struggle with keeping a ďfun carĒ for 10 years. Hell, most struggle to keep any car for 10 years.

To each their own in what they do with their money in their life. Iíve been resisting the itch for some time to buy a M2C. Could well afford it but timing in my life right now isnít the best. Maybe next year.
Iíve coming up on 9 years with my daily and Iím going to keep going with it. My current ďfunĒ vehicles are 10 and 13 years old and they arenít going anywhere. Iím hoping the DD will last to year 13 at least but we will see.

I agree with you though, ďnew newĒ afflicts most. They just canít keep anything. Itís like if they have to keep something longer than a couple of years they are tossing their toys out of their crib like an infant. Iím of the opposite opinion. Donít buy ANYTHING unless you plan on keeping it long term. The caveat is if it starts giving you problems. If it starts giving you problems I use the three strike rule. Three different issues with low mileage on the ODO, might be best to bail. Or maybe itís something like the Voodoo where you are an enthusiast and you are seeing far too many kabooms where you donít feel comfortable keeping it long term and prefer to get the majority of your money back out of it while you can. Oh the EJ comes to mind in this regard as well.

Iíve also resisted the itch for the same exact car but have sat out and will continue to sit out of this entire madness the past few years. I can afford it but nah, no thanks. Ainít paying blood money. New new doesnít supersede financial discipline even with enthusiast depreciating assets, hell any vehicle. Next year though, Iím hoping goes well without the drama so I can cop the bag on this mafk in the thread title.

Best thing I ever did was start keeping stuff and give the vehicles specific roles. DD is for DD, nothing else. Fun stuff is for fun stuff, not using it for cracker driving in the city sitting at lights and bumper to bumper, or parking it at the mall. Waste of time and money to me. Buy the right tool for the exact job itís for and you can build a fleet. And it ainít big bank to do it neither.
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:42 AM   #1316
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I
That is not to say I don't care about the environment, or that my logical brain has no influence whatsoever, more that I realize my monkey brain cares about going fast & juicing that adrenal gland as much as possible, so I've gotta get my kicks somewhere; if that means I drive a leaf, but go sky diving every weekend so be it. There is a balance there, I've just got to find it.
I don't skydive, but ride a motorcycle, race enduro mountain bikes, and go backcounty snowboarding... I just gave up on cars. Traffic is too bad, it felt like a waste and a bad financial decision. This GRC looks awesome and 3 year ago me would probably have a deposit in. But I dunno, something clicked and changed my life focus...
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:30 AM   #1317
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Someone with more free time than me should start pinging these dealers to see if this agreement between all of them to charge $15k over sticker is actually a thing, because I'm pretty sure that's illegal price fixing.
Someone just sent pics to the TFL channel I believe it was on YouTube of a dealer with 20k and 30k market adjustment fees on the window sticker for a Sequoia and Tundra respectively. Remember we live in ďfree market rules Murica!Ē land, so this price gauging will continue to happen with no consumer protection or regulations on such things because ďKoMuNiSM broooĒ.
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:50 AM   #1318
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consumers have protection... just do not buy it! Free market works. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to pay these prices.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:14 AM   #1319
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consumers have protection... just do not buy it! Free market works. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to pay these prices.
Exactly. Don't ask government, they suck at fixing things.

Last edited by VarmintCong; 12-01-2022 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:28 AM   #1320
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consumers have protection... just do not buy it! Free market works. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to pay these prices.
Then stop complaining about gas prices or price of food or anything else, you can stop putting gas in your vehicle and just walk or stop buying food and just grow your own or start hunting, see how dumb that logic isÖStop complaining about inflation, stop complaining about financial collapses, stop complaining about the likes of Enron or FTX or any other crony scumbag committing fraud with these unscrupulous practices allowed under the banner of deregulation and free market works. Just stop complaining about things that you preach and enjoy your **** sandwich sir.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:29 AM   #1321
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Someone just sent pics to the TFL channel I believe it was on YouTube of a dealer with 20k and 30k market adjustment fees on the window sticker for a Sequoia and Tundra respectively. Remember we live in ďfree market rules Murica!Ē land, so this price gauging will continue to happen with no consumer protection or regulations on such things because ďKoMuNiSM broooĒ.
Haha, wow. In the free market you donít buy it if you donít want to spend that much money for it. In Communism, it would be your only option. Is this what the education system is producing these days?
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:33 AM   #1322
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Haha, wow. In the free market you donít buy it if you donít want to spend that much money for it. In Communism, it would be your only option. Is this what the education system is producing these days?
Your reading comprehension is so good, that you actually interpreted my comment as me actually preaching for communism. Instead you totally missed that what I said was that thereís nitwits in this country that would foam at the mouth at talks of regulations by screaming ďthatís communismĒ. Yeah, talk about wow. Try reading better.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:05 AM   #1323
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Your reading comprehension is so good, that you actually interpreted my comment as me actually preaching for communism. Instead you totally missed that what I said was that thereís nitwits in this country that would foam at the mouth at talks of regulations by screaming ďthatís communismĒ. Yeah, talk about wow. Try reading better.
take it to PP, or calm down before someone decides we can't have this thread.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:11 AM   #1324
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I've had the same thought about the 2022 WRX. I don't like it, but I can afford it and I'd have a manual + AWD + turbo. According to Subaru's comparison on their site, the Impreza and WRX are basically the same in passenger volume, except for rear passenger headroom is down about an inch. And there's the obvious 8 cubic feet loss of cargo volume.

For the $8k price difference, it's not the worst choice, but it also feels far from the best choice. Cars just suck right now.
Literally the same mindset as me. I want a new car in 2023 but the choices for a single car in PA that has AWD and is fun is really limited. Especially considering markups on cars and such. The new wrx might be the choice just based on prices and practicality.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:18 AM   #1325
mcarb002
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seattle
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
take it to PP, or calm down before someone decides we can't have this thread.
This has become a pp section. Look through all the threads lol
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