Borla Headers?

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 02:49 PM

Has anyone had any experience with the Borla Headers for the 2.5 RS?

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wraithmk3 · 10-10-2000, 02:55 PM

I have them. Many people will say they don't like them and others they do. As for me, I like them. I put them on my stock exhaust and it added a nice rumble to the exhaust as well as improved the top-end. Now I have my stromung cat-back with it and it does not feel like the stock suby. It feels like a beast as well as sounds like it will eat cars alive. I think they are a nice addition but keep in mind that the headers with another exhaust will be louder.

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 03:01 PM

Hmmmm....I already have the Stainless Stromung Cat-Back, so with the headers it will probably SCREAM. But if the pwer advantage is significant....

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 03:02 PM

wraithmk3

I used to live in New Brunswick until about 2 months ago. What color is your car? Did you ever see a silver RS with a Thule Bike rack?

izzy · 10-10-2000, 03:56 PM

How much power gain with the Stromung + Borla headers? Curious because this is what i'm considering getting in the not too distant future.

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 03:59 PM

I KNOW there is a gain with the cat-back Stromung, maybe 5-6 hp, and the headers would probably add another 5-10hp.

Corey · 10-10-2000, 04:05 PM

Does anyone know if the "new version" of the headers are out yet? I heard the last ones had some clearance issues and that they were redesigning them. Does anyone have the "new version" in stock yet?

Corey

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 04:07 PM

GOOD question. I KNOW NOPI has them so you may want to give them a call.

spshultz · 10-10-2000, 06:25 PM

I "had" a set of the old Borla headers on my car and the sound was incredible. I also have the Stromung dual tip with mid-pipe and it almost sounded like a small V-8. But they would hit something (I can't remember what it was) under the car. And it hit it pretty hard. I think that with some STI motor mounts that that would probably stop. I also have an auto and lost some serious low-end. Again I believe this would be different with a 5spd. Also, I thought I heard one time about someones welds breaking or something like that.

Shawn

Tangmere · 10-10-2000, 06:29 PM

According to Trey from Cobb Tuning, Borla's new headers are on the way to him. Dyno results will be forthcoming.

copec · 10-10-2000, 06:32 PM

actually the borla headers are purely designed from a design standpoint, I could elablorate but the fact is on the dyno cobb didn't find ANY hp gain and found only 10ft-lbs of torque gain.

on a 2.5L 4 valve per cylinder engine, going from a restrictive exhaust manifold to new headers with an exhaust to back it up should yield between 15-20hp, but it doesn't

copec · 10-10-2000, 06:34 PM

but the borla headers didn't, I should have said

ColinL · 10-10-2000, 08:07 PM

but the fact is on the dyno cobb didn't find ANY hp gain and found only 10ft-lbs of torque gain

That is impossible, horsepower is calculated from torque. If you make 10lb-ft more at 5252 RPM you're making 10 more HP than before. Below that RPM and less HP, above it you make more. Horsepower is an abstract used to represent an engine's ability to do work over time. Torque is raw force.

mav1c · 10-10-2000, 08:26 PM

OK. If you gain 10 lb-ft of torque, you DON'T necessarily gain 10 HP. Torque and HP ARE NOT always, if ever, equal. Look at the Subaru engine. When they changed to a SOHC engine for 99, it gained 6lb-ft of torque, but HP remained 165. Or look at the new M3, 333 HP, but only 26i lb-ft of torque.

ColinL · 10-10-2000, 08:31 PM

I suppose I'll post the whole formula since there is still some doubt. It's not complicated...

HP = torque * rpm / 5252

They are in fact equal at 5252 RPM, hence my previous post.

Jon Bogert · 10-10-2000, 08:34 PM

ColinL, you are absolutely right: if torque goes up at a given RPM, HP does too. I bet the confusion is that PEAK HP didn't go up, but PEAK torque did. The increase in peak torque was still at low enough revs that the HP gain didn't exceed the peak HP, which presumably was at higher RPM.

JHamilton · 10-11-2000, 04:32 AM

I work for Motorsports company part time doing installs and R&D work. I just put on the new redesigned Borla header on my RS for testing 2 weeks ago. The install was very easy and took no time at all.The new header is alot diffant from the last one. The header does not hit any where like the old one did sometimes. The welds and over all quality of the header is good. there is a noticeable amount of power increase(10-12 hp range) and the sound is very nice too. The new Borla header is a good header for the price(upper 400s) and what you get for your money. The header will bolt up to all the normal aftermarket exhaust and Borla own exhaust. I would recommend the header.
I do have dyno charts for the header.

[This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).]

redwagon · 10-11-2000, 04:50 AM

You have the dyno chart?, so what are you waiting for?, post it and spoil the argument!

Corey · 10-11-2000, 05:15 AM

JHamilton,

Yes, please post the dyno charts. Is there any decrease in low RPM torque? Any decrease in torque or HP anywhere?

Thanks,

Corey

wraithmk3 · 10-11-2000, 06:41 AM

mav1c, I don't remember seening your car but then again I started my job in the city so wasn't around as much. The reason I never had a problem hitting the bottom with the headers is that I got it from a member who had them fixed already( quality job). Everyone has their opinions on them but the headers and the full stromung end up making my look at the speedometer now. The RPMs climb fast now an I definitely hit 60 quicker the before. As for sound, people don't believe it's a 4-banger and more. Who can blame them. Sound like a amplified growl and speed to move.

mav1c · 10-11-2000, 06:49 AM

OK..about the HP vs Torque question. i KNOW the equation, I was JUST trying to illustrate that peak HP doesn't always equal peak torque. That's all.

I'd LOVE to see those dyno charts!

JHamilton · 10-11-2000, 03:43 PM

a pic of my car with the new Borla header on. WWW.SPOmotorsports.com is where to get them from. 360-254-5878
trust me they are a great header.

[This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).]

ColinL · 10-11-2000, 03:49 PM

I take it the oil filter can still be removed easily?

btw, is that a fram sure grip? fram... <shudder>

Jon Bogert · 10-11-2000, 03:54 PM

OK, very pretty.

a) Let's see the dyno charts.

b) Where do I send my credit card info?

Thanks,

Jon

Edit: JHamilton, where did the pic go? Did you accidentally leak a trade secret there?

[This message has been edited by Jon Bogert (edited October 11, 2000).]

JHamilton · 10-11-2000, 04:57 PM

WWW.SPOMotorsport.com has a first run buy on the Borla header. you might check the vendor section or call them to get the header. 360-254-5878

10-10-2000, 02:49 PM	#1
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	Borla Headers? Has anyone had any experience with the Borla Headers for the 2.5 RS? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-10-2000, 02:55 PM	#2
wraithmk3 Scooby Newbie Member#: 1527 Join Date: May 2000 Location: FL, U.S.A. Vehicle: 2015 STI	I have them. Many people will say they don't like them and others they do. As for me, I like them. I put them on my stock exhaust and it added a nice rumble to the exhaust as well as improved the top-end. Now I have my stromung cat-back with it and it does not feel like the stock suby. It feels like a beast as well as sounds like it will eat cars alive. I think they are a nice addition but keep in mind that the headers with another exhaust will be louder.

10-10-2000, 03:01 PM	#3
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	Hmmmm....I already have the Stainless Stromung Cat-Back, so with the headers it will probably SCREAM. But if the pwer advantage is significant....

10-10-2000, 03:02 PM	#4
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	wraithmk3 I used to live in New Brunswick until about 2 months ago. What color is your car? Did you ever see a silver RS with a Thule Bike rack?

10-10-2000, 03:56 PM	#5
izzy Scooby Newbie Member#: 1498 Join Date: May 2000 Location: kirkland,WA Vehicle: 05 92X Aero	How much power gain with the Stromung + Borla headers? Curious because this is what i'm considering getting in the not too distant future.

10-10-2000, 03:59 PM	#6
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	I KNOW there is a gain with the cat-back Stromung, maybe 5-6 hp, and the headers would probably add another 5-10hp.

10-10-2000, 04:05 PM	#7
Corey Scooby Specialist Member#: 618 Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: PA, USA Vehicle: 2000 2.5 RS #89 STS MODERacing / Bridgestone	Does anyone know if the "new version" of the headers are out yet? I heard the last ones had some clearance issues and that they were redesigning them. Does anyone have the "new version" in stock yet? Corey

10-10-2000, 04:07 PM	#8
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	GOOD question. I KNOW NOPI has them so you may want to give them a call.

10-10-2000, 06:25 PM	#9
spshultz Scooby Specialist Member#: 1415 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Anytown, USA Vehicle: 2015 F150 3.5EB 2014 Jeep GC	I "had" a set of the old Borla headers on my car and the sound was incredible. I also have the Stromung dual tip with mid-pipe and it almost sounded like a small V-8. But they would hit something (I can't remember what it was) under the car. And it hit it pretty hard. I think that with some STI motor mounts that that would probably stop. I also have an auto and lost some serious low-end. Again I believe this would be different with a 5spd. Also, I thought I heard one time about someones welds breaking or something like that. Shawn

10-10-2000, 06:29 PM	#10
Tangmere Scooby Specialist Member#: 572 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Boulder, Colorado	According to Trey from Cobb Tuning, Borla's new headers are on the way to him. Dyno results will be forthcoming.

10-10-2000, 06:32 PM	#11
copec Scooby Newbie Member#: 1808 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Ogden, USA	actually the borla headers are purely designed from a design standpoint, I could elablorate but the fact is on the dyno cobb didn't find ANY hp gain and found only 10ft-lbs of torque gain. on a 2.5L 4 valve per cylinder engine, going from a restrictive exhaust manifold to new headers with an exhaust to back it up should yield between 15-20hp, but it doesn't

10-10-2000, 06:34 PM	#12
copec Scooby Newbie Member#: 1808 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Ogden, USA	but the borla headers didn't, I should have said

10-10-2000, 08:07 PM	#13
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	but the fact is on the dyno cobb didn't find ANY hp gain and found only 10ft-lbs of torque gain That is impossible, horsepower is calculated from torque. If you make 10lb-ft more at 5252 RPM you're making 10 more HP than before. Below that RPM and less HP, above it you make more. Horsepower is an abstract used to represent an engine's ability to do work over time. Torque is raw force.

10-10-2000, 08:26 PM	#14
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	OK. If you gain 10 lb-ft of torque, you DON'T necessarily gain 10 HP. Torque and HP ARE NOT always, if ever, equal. Look at the Subaru engine. When they changed to a SOHC engine for 99, it gained 6lb-ft of torque, but HP remained 165. Or look at the new M3, 333 HP, but only 26i lb-ft of torque.

10-10-2000, 08:31 PM	#15
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	I suppose I'll post the whole formula since there is still some doubt. It's not complicated... HP = torque * rpm / 5252 They are in fact equal at 5252 RPM, hence my previous post.

10-10-2000, 08:34 PM	#16
Jon Bogert Scooby Specialist Member#: 1133 Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: SE PA Vehicle: 09 GTR, 02 996 C4S 95 993 C4, 71 911, 04 STI	ColinL, you are absolutely right: if torque goes up at a given RPM, HP does too. I bet the confusion is that PEAK HP didn't go up, but PEAK torque did. The increase in peak torque was still at low enough revs that the HP gain didn't exceed the peak HP, which presumably was at higher RPM.

10-11-2000, 04:32 AM	#17
JHamilton Scooby Newbie Member#: 1604 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: vancouver, wa , clark	I work for Motorsports company part time doing installs and R&D work. I just put on the new redesigned Borla header on my RS for testing 2 weeks ago. The install was very easy and took no time at all.The new header is alot diffant from the last one. The header does not hit any where like the old one did sometimes. The welds and over all quality of the header is good. there is a noticeable amount of power increase(10-12 hp range) and the sound is very nice too. The new Borla header is a good header for the price(upper 400s) and what you get for your money. The header will bolt up to all the normal aftermarket exhaust and Borla own exhaust. I would recommend the header. I do have dyno charts for the header. [This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).] [This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).]

10-11-2000, 04:50 AM	#18
redwagon Scooby Specialist Member#: 2181 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: So Cal Vehicle: 2003 Forester XS	You have the dyno chart?, so what are you waiting for?, post it and spoil the argument!

10-11-2000, 05:15 AM	#19
Corey Scooby Specialist Member#: 618 Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: PA, USA Vehicle: 2000 2.5 RS #89 STS MODERacing / Bridgestone	JHamilton, Yes, please post the dyno charts. Is there any decrease in low RPM torque? Any decrease in torque or HP anywhere? Thanks, Corey

10-11-2000, 06:41 AM	#20
wraithmk3 Scooby Newbie Member#: 1527 Join Date: May 2000 Location: FL, U.S.A. Vehicle: 2015 STI	mav1c, I don't remember seening your car but then again I started my job in the city so wasn't around as much. The reason I never had a problem hitting the bottom with the headers is that I got it from a member who had them fixed already( quality job). Everyone has their opinions on them but the headers and the full stromung end up making my look at the speedometer now. The RPMs climb fast now an I definitely hit 60 quicker the before. As for sound, people don't believe it's a 4-banger and more. Who can blame them. Sound like a amplified growl and speed to move.

10-11-2000, 06:49 AM	#21
mav1c Hoodbridge! Moderator Member#: 560 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Woodbridge, VA Vehicle: 2006 STi, 16 Outback Crystal Gray, Silver	OK..about the HP vs Torque question. i KNOW the equation, I was JUST trying to illustrate that peak HP doesn't always equal peak torque. That's all. I'd LOVE to see those dyno charts!

10-11-2000, 03:43 PM	#22
JHamilton Scooby Newbie Member#: 1604 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: vancouver, wa , clark	a pic of my car with the new Borla header on. WWW.SPOmotorsports.com is where to get them from. 360-254-5878 trust me they are a great header. [This message has been edited by JHamilton (edited October 11, 2000).]

10-11-2000, 03:49 PM	#23
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	I take it the oil filter can still be removed easily? btw, is that a fram sure grip? fram... <shudder>

10-11-2000, 03:54 PM	#24
Jon Bogert Scooby Specialist Member#: 1133 Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: SE PA Vehicle: 09 GTR, 02 996 C4S 95 993 C4, 71 911, 04 STI	OK, very pretty. a) Let's see the dyno charts. b) Where do I send my credit card info? Thanks, Jon Edit: JHamilton, where did the pic go? Did you accidentally leak a trade secret there? [This message has been edited by Jon Bogert (edited October 11, 2000).]

10-11-2000, 04:57 PM	#25
JHamilton Scooby Newbie Member#: 1604 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: vancouver, wa , clark	WWW.SPOMotorsport.com has a first run buy on the Borla header. you might check the vendor section or call them to get the header. 360-254-5878