Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 4, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > General Community

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2020, 04:25 PM   #26
F1EA
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
You have to compare specific years and models to gain any insight for manual vs CVT for say 0-60 times. With Subarus, the gearing is typically different with CVTs geared for low RPM high gear highway driving which makes MPG better but acceleration worse.

Newer Subaru CVTs seem to have become more reliable. The claim that just a valve body needs to be replaced in CVTs to repair......uh......maybe, but if you ask a Subaru dealer how to repair a slipping CVT (what mine had), they answer a complete transmission replacement for $8000. Fortunately, mine was under warranty so I paid nothing.

*Some* auto versions are faster. Certainly dual clutch transmissions with similar gearing will be faster and in sports car racing (ALMS, LM and the like), cars have run first sequentials then dual clutchs for decades because the shifts are faster and are done flat footed. But when Turner is done with a race weekend, they can tear down the transmission and bring it back to new before the next race. In "real world" applications, dual clutches are not good. Audi has moved away from them, back to traditional autos. Ford's fiasco of the dual clutch in Focus and Festiva has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars and is a huge failure.

All this said, my 3 Subarus represent all of the transmission options. We still have our 13 with a replaced CVT (known as a total garbage transmission) with 60k on the replaced CVT and 113k on the car. My 19 Crosstrek with a 6MT is wonderful, though with the low gearing, it is whining out in 6th at highway speed. The wife has a 17 Legacy and the CVT feels like a "normal auto" to me.

"in theory", one tranny might be better. I really don't care when the theory fails and the dash becomes a christmas tree and requires an $8000 replacement.
Yes, what he said ^
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-19-2020, 05:52 PM   #27
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Quote:
Audi has confirmed the continuously variable transmission (CVT) is now dead, despite the German brand having been one of the first to utilise this type of automatic gearbox more than a decade ago.

Speaking at a future technology briefing in Sweden, head of V6 TDI development Ralph Rigger said that development of the multitronic – the brand’s name for CVT – has stopped at Audi and it will eventually be superseded across all model lines.

“The multitronic is no longer going to be around,” confirmed Rigger.

“The S tronic will replace the multitronic. [In future] we are going to see a co-existance of two gearboxes, the S tronic and the tiptronic [torque converter automatic].”

Asked why the gearbox technology, which infinitely adjusts engine revs during acceleration, will be superseded by dual-clutch automated manual technology in future Audis, the development manager was forthright: “for efficiency reasons”.

“The multitronic offered a major benefit, you were able to keep the engine speed at very low revs thanks to the transmission ratio, but we’re now able to use a stepped transmission and the efficiency there is better than in comparison to a variator [CVT],” he continued.

“The large benefit of the multitronic was the low revs, but we are also able to do it now with this system [S tronic].”


Rigger pointed to the release of the facelifted Audi A7 Sportback V6 TDI front-wheel drive model, which has increased engine efficiency on the switch from using a multitronic CVT to a dual-clutch S tronic transmission.

“If you run the [A7] ultra model, just watch for the low revs that are possible by this gearbox, so we’re able to reach the same engine speeds as with a multitronic but efficiency is better,” he said.

Although Audi currently uses an eight-speed torque converter automatic transmission for its high-torque diesel-engined all-wheel-drive models, Rigger also confirmed that “later on we are going to have a quattro version” of the seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox.

The demise of the CVT means the current Audi A6 2.0 TFSI and TDI grades on sale will likely come in for an S tronic upgrade soon, while the next-generation Audi A4 due next year will flick the CVT currently available in entry-level 1.8T and 2.0 TDI, and 3.0 TDI guise. It will leave the Audi A5 coupe and convertible as the last Audi models to use the transmission.
Subaru put all their eggs in a basket regardless of needing CVT to hold torque or holding torque back so as to not break the CVT.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 07:41 PM   #28
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
Let's be clear on one thing: VW's DSG/Porsche's PDK are NOT automatic transmissions, nor are they a "type" of AT. They are AUTOMATED manual transmissions (AMTs).
Sorry, but as soon as you add any kind of automated shifting mode to a transmission, that transmission is by definition an "automatic" transmission by the mere fact that it can do its own shifting independently of the driver.

IOW, just because a DSG is neither a conventional torque converter/planetary gear automatic nor a CVT does not exclude it from the 'automatic' category. The operative characteristic is that a DSG/PDK/whatever includes shift logic all its own (whether you choose to use it or not). On this logic concept . . . older automatic transmissions employed hydraulic logic rather than electronic logic.

This isn't intended as flame toward DSGs, it's just a matter of characterizing them by the one feature that distinguishes as automated transmission from a manually-controlled-only transmission. It's probably best if we avoid associating any of today's automatics with terms like 'slushbox', even though that was perhaps an accurate description for some of yesteryear's automatics.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 08:26 PM   #29
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
So yeah, it fits the purpose, but they also like it, and prefer it (especially compared to a manual). Which is what I mean: It is not really under rated, it is actually rated pretty well. It is disliked by some group (seems like a minority as Subarus with CVT have sold plenty), and quite ok to another group (maybe the majority and/or the market target?). A lot of people don't care at all so for Subaru to dump $ to please some weird minority, is kind of crazy.
I think the group that best defines those who are most likely to dislike CVTs is performance drivers in general. There will be a few outliers, of course.


FWIW, the WRX/STi is, according to a recent survey on MT take rates, the model with the highest MT percentage in the industry (~88%). It's the other Subaru models with CVT that brings the CVT numbers up. Even the Legacy eventually flipped over to CVT-only, after being a MT holdout at least through 2010, and I think conventional automatic only for a short while after that.


Quote:
But yes... other than reliability, what's not to like?
I think before you can get to any "what's not to like" point, you have to be fully accepting of a transmission that can leave you out of the loop while it goes on about taking care of its own forward gear selection.

Going from MT to conventional AT may be the big step here; it's a smaller step from there to the amorphous ratio choosing of a CVT. So if you start your driving life predisposed toward automatics rather than conventional MTs, you're already over the big hurdle.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 10-19-2020 at 08:32 PM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2020, 12:31 PM   #30
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G,
EJ205

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Sorry, but as soon as you add any kind of automated shifting mode to a transmission, that transmission is by definition an "automatic" transmission by the mere fact that it can do its own shifting independently of the driver.
I'll disagree and say that, yes, the shifting has been automated, but an AMT still uses a friction plate(s), a pressure plate(s) and gears with synchronizers, hallmarks of a traditional MT.

Call it what it is; an AMT, not an AT.

In my industry, we have to make this distinction between traditional MTs, traditional ATs, and MTs that shift on their own.
car_freak85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2020, 01:07 PM   #31
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
I'll disagree and say that, yes, the shifting has been automated, but an AMT still uses a friction plate(s), a pressure plate(s) and gears with synchronizers, hallmarks of a traditional MT.

Call it what it is; an AMT, not an AT.

In my industry, we have to make this distinction between traditional MTs, traditional ATs, and MTs that shift on their own.
Seems to me that as soon as you add the word 'automated' to 'manual transmission', what you now have is by definition closer to an automatic transmission than to a manual transmission. It's automated by direct statement, which = automatic.

I get that there may still be a little stigma as far as the term 'automatic transmission' is concerned. But the mere fact that these AMTs can fully operate as ATs still makes them automatics in actual automated usage, where the name officially given to it is completely irrelevant. The use of semantics to argue that an AMT isn't at its logical heart an AT here means no more than whether or not your WRX / STi displays all of its OE badging. The way it works is what matters.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2020, 02:35 PM   #32
Zak6182
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 481754
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Beaufort, SC
Vehicle:
2017 STi Base
Black

Default

I surprised at how many people like the CVT here. I have been in and out of loaners for a few months now and I have found all of them to be clunky, especially when maintaining a low speed (25mph). I work on a military base where its mostly 25 everywhere so I may notice it more than others. The first 2 loaners (2019 Ascent, 2020 Forester) were the worst. Now I am in a 2020 Crosstrek, which feels the best. The steering feels more engaging than the others and I notice almost no clunking at low speed.

I was also quite surprised to see the Crosstrek has a 2.5l DI engine. Maybe they are just calling the FA24 a 2.5l on the window sticker?

^ EDIT: its a FB25. Shows how little I know about Subaru NA motors.

Last edited by Zak6182; 10-21-2020 at 03:10 PM. Reason: I is unedumacated
Zak6182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2020, 11:26 AM   #33
Angelus911
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89967
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sport
DGM

Default

My 2 cents:

Overall I hate CVTs, at least the way Subaru tunes them. I've owned a 2012 Impreza, 2016 Legacy and test driven the newest Crosstrek Sport with the CVT. I would go as far as to say that I'll never buy another CVT Subaru ever again.

That being said, I didn't mind the way the CVT functioned on my '12 Impreza, where it acted like a true CVT without the fake gear shifting. The tune on my 12 was garbage, it was under powered, but it had potential.

I'm now at the point with my Legacy where I'm having issues with either the torque converter or CVT, and I have to sell it before the extended warranty expires at 100k.
Angelus911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #34
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
Overall I hate CVTs, at least the way Subaru tunes them.
I doubt that any other mfr's CVT calibration is likely to be much different. It's still going to 'motorboat' under acceleration, and a fair amount of a powerful engine's potential will be torque-managed away in the lower ratios.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2020, 03:06 PM   #35
Angelus911
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89967
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sport
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I doubt that any other mfr's CVT calibration is likely to be much different. It's still going to 'motorboat' under acceleration, and a fair amount of a powerful engine's potential will be torque-managed away in the lower ratios.


Norm

I had a tune on my ‘12 Impreza that actually made it drive a lot better. Only limiting factor was the measly 148hp. If it had the 2.5 the Legacy and Forester had it would have been a good car
Angelus911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2020, 06:52 PM   #36
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

My '14 Corolla's CVT was far better than my '11 Legacy CVT was. In fact, my commuter special '00 Civic HX with M4VA CVT was better than both - CVTEC kicked in y0! After I dropped it to the ground, it truly was a motorboat.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 03:30 AM   #37
Kolt_045
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 519829
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default

I don't like them because they are non serviceable. Anything that fails internally you have to replace the whole unit
Kolt_045 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 04:39 AM   #38
SoCoNoHa
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 478524
Join Date: Nov 2017
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH
Vehicle:
1995 EZ30 Coupe
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The way it works is what matters.
Automated manual transmissions work differently than automatic transmissions. Automatics have torque converters while automated manuals have pressure plates and clutch discs, as stated.
I believe the AMT's still require driver input to shift, it's just not a physical linkage but instead a paddle/button/lever input to tell the computer to shift the trans.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with stigma. Might as well say there's no difference between a WRX and an STI besides the badging. They're both just cars with flat motors, right?
SoCoNoHa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 05:09 AM   #39
Takumi4Champion
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 519667
Join Date: Oct 2020
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Little Canada, MN
Vehicle:
2020 Impreza
Ice Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDorf View Post
My opinion on why CVTs are underrated I think most will agree?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xekUAh_rrrU
I got a CVT I enjoy it but I usually don't use the shifter on the steering wheel though.
Takumi4Champion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 10:04 AM   #40
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoNoHa View Post
Automated manual transmissions work differently than automatic transmissions. Automatics have torque converters while automated manuals have pressure plates and clutch discs, as stated.
I believe the AMT's still require driver input to shift, it's just not a physical linkage but instead a paddle/button/lever input to tell the computer to shift the trans.
The clutches are fully automated, but the real definition of an automated transmission is whether it can make its own gear choices. And automated gear selection is all it takes. Whether you as an individual ever use such automation is irrelevant, because it's still there if you wanted to use it.


Quote:
Anyway, it has nothing to do with stigma.
Obviously you've never driven any of the earlier automatics. I'm talking about things like 1950's-era GM cars equipped with Hydra-Matics and cars with two-speed automatics whose 1st gear reduction was taller than 2nd or even 3rd gear these days. If you had, you'd have understood instantly.

Automatic transmission cars back then just sort of moseyed off the line when you stepped on the gas - which was fine if you were a doctor or a lawyer and were only interested in luxurious transportation, but which flat-out sucked if you were a performance driving enthusiast. At least for those of us who were there back then (and for some of the older members of the generation following ours), those associations stuck even as automatic transmissions gradually got better. Maybe you're better off for seeing automatic transmissions in a far more favorable light, maybe you're not.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 03:43 PM   #41
SoCoNoHa
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 478524
Join Date: Nov 2017
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH
Vehicle:
1995 EZ30 Coupe
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Obviously you've never driven any of the earlier automatics. I'm talking about things like 1950's-era GM cars...

Maybe you're better off for seeing automatic transmissions in a far more favorable light, maybe you're not.
Norm
You're correct I've never driven those older automatics, I believe what you say about them. I assumed you meant the stigma of autos in general vs manuals, not older autos vs newer. I generally don't view automatics in a favorable light(did you mean compared to your view? We're probably pretty close!), I will always rather drive a standard. There are exceptions; I drove an older BMW 530 auto, and actually liked it. I'd still prefer the manual version though.
SoCoNoHa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 09:39 PM   #42
Ernest
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45076
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland County, NY
Vehicle:
2004 Stg 2 wagon AT
16 BRZ. Both silver

Default

Its funny how these threads always lead to autos are for grannies and stick makes you some kind of man or gangsta as someone said. I dont know your age but many grandmas grew up driving stick before you were born. Must of been a lot of gangsta grandmas.

To me MT vs AT is just what the car is used for. For me a DD is AT, plus I need others to drive my car sometimes and many people cant drive MT well.

I get it MT is more engaging, but going to Home Depot or work I dont need to be a gangsta.
Ernest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 10:09 PM   #43
samb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177235
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Washington
Vehicle:
2016 Focus RS
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

My wife***8217;s Forester XT drives fine with the CVT. I certainly don***8217;t mind driving it, but I***8217;m not trying to drive it like a sports car either.
samb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2020, 10:45 AM   #44
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoNoHa View Post
You're correct I've never driven those older automatics, I believe what you say about them. I assumed you meant the stigma of autos in general vs manuals, not older autos vs newer.
First impressions probably have a lot to do with it no matter who you are. For me, automatics started out being clearly the inferior choice for performance. Perhaps as a direct consequence, the whole mindlessness of just slapping the thing in 'D' and going became quite clear. So for me, it ends up being some of each, MT > AT generally, and that my attitude toward the ATs of today is already somewhat biased because of my experience with the ATs of the past.

Intellectually I do understand that they've gotten quite good. But they're still a poor fit for me individually. And FWIW, there's at least one respect in which today's ATs have devolved from some of the early ones. The older Chrysler Torqueflite and Powerflite transmissions could be push/pop-started if the battery was too weak to start the engine on its starter. I think you could do the same with some of the early Ford ATs as well.


Quote:
I generally don't view automatics in a favorable light(did you mean compared to your view? We're probably pretty close!), I will always rather drive a standard. There are exceptions; I drove an older BMW 530 auto, and actually liked it. I'd still prefer the manual version though.
Let me put it this way . . . I don't think I've ever liked having my car's transmission do any of its own shifting. Not even 50 years or so ago when I ended up having to drive cars with automatics because they were the only cars that were available to me (no surprise that I ended up manually shifting them most of the time). I've always hated those 'forced' downshifts caused by using the gas pedal. If I want a lower gear, I'll put the lever there and do my own rev-matching (yes, this is possible even with an AT).


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2020, 11:03 AM   #45
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
To me MT vs AT is just what the car is used for.
It's not even that specific; MT or AT is simply the way any particular car works.

Personally, if I'm going to be spending 5-digit money on a car, it's got to be something that I'm going to actively enjoy driving. That includes commuting (well, it did back when I had a such a thing), grocery-getting, parts-chasing, you name it. There's no need to merely endure those little trips.


Just so you know, my wife still prefers to drive stick (she's retired, too). Our daughter can and has in the past, and one of the granddaughters owns a MT car.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 06:49 PM   #46
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G,
EJ205

Default

Norm, what it comes down to is this:

There is no longer just AT/MT (colloquially known to have torque converters vs. clutch/syncros). Times have changed and so must our vocabulary when it comes to transmissions.

We still have clutch-actuated, synchronized-gear fully manual transmissions. We still have hydraulically-operated, fully-automatic transmissions. But we also have clutch-actuated, synchronized-gear fully automated transmissions that can still be manually shifted like a traditional, hydraulically-operated, fully-automatic transmission.

The time has come, in this industry, to make the distinction between MTs, ATs, and AMTs, without regard to their ability to self shift.

(As a sidenote, how would you categorize Hyundai/KIA's new auto-clutched/manually-shifted "manual transmission?" The car controls the clutch actuation, but the driver is still relied upon to shift the gears.)
car_freak85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 09:05 PM   #47
Norm Peterson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:
'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

No, there's no need to re-invent this wheel . . . err, terminology. Either a transmission has the capability to shift for itself (is automated) or it doesn't (manual). It's that simple.

I really don't care if you want to make further distinctions among the various transmissions that do have self-shifting capability as long as you accept the fact that they're all basically automatics. Differences in detail, not type.

I just don't understand any reluctance to categorizing AMTs or DSGs as automatics, especially given the widespread acceptance of automatics generally.


That Kia device isn't anything new. It appears to be at least functionally similar to Porsche's 'Sportomatic' transmission (ca. 1967). I'll take your word for it that gear selection is completely up to the driver, which puts it (and the Sportomatic) in the manual transmission category. Also in the MT category are dog-shifted gearboxes where you really only need to use the clutch pedal to get the vehicle rolling (Jerico in the circle track world, Eaton for the 18-wheeler gang).


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 01:20 PM   #48
F1EA
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
No, there's no need to re-invent this wheel . . . err, terminology. Either a transmission has the capability to shift for itself (is automated) or it doesn't (manual). It's that simple.

I really don't care if you want to make further distinctions among the various transmissions that do have self-shifting capability as long as you accept the fact that they're all basically automatics. Differences in detail, not type.

I just don't understand any reluctance to categorizing AMTs or DSGs as automatics, especially given the widespread acceptance of automatics generally.


That Kia device isn't anything new. It appears to be at least functionally similar to Porsche's 'Sportomatic' transmission (ca. 1967). I'll take your word for it that gear selection is completely up to the driver, which puts it (and the Sportomatic) in the manual transmission category. Also in the MT category are dog-shifted gearboxes where you really only need to use the clutch pedal to get the vehicle rolling (Jerico in the circle track world, Eaton for the 18-wheeler gang).


Norm
Yep agree.

I think it's likely people who don't want to feel "sitgmatized" for driving an auto...
Hey, I don't drive an automatic. I drive a DSG!
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 06:35 PM   #49
6MT_WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 459822
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2017 WRX 6MT Premium
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
Yep agree.

I think it's likely people who don't want to feel "sitgmatized" for driving an auto...
Hey, I don't drive an automatic. I drive a DSG!
I remembered a friend who had an Eclipse. When I asked him if it's an automatic or stick. He said "Tiptronic". I said "oh, automatic".
6MT_WRX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 07:29 PM   #50
Gixhost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180111
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Lost in the DMV
Vehicle:
* 2004.114.3 STi
Aspen White

Default

As long as Subaru continues to be dedicated to the CVT transmission, I will probably not be purchasing any automatic Subaru vehicles. Our last purchase was a 2017 RAV4 (non-hybrid), because I just couldn't commit to the CVT in the Subaru alternatives. Its not just Subaru for me, any manufacturer with a CVT as their sole automatic option, I just won't consider it.

I was reluctant to look into the hybrid version of the RAV4 due to its CVT although the performance is better than the standard model and I am sure the electric motor assists enough from a stop to make up for the CVT...I kind of regret it...but its time again to purchase another vehicle and as much as I like the Outback...the CVT is almost haunting the brand.

Nissan and Subaru have had complaints with their CVT units over the years and I'd much rather have a traditional automatic with more gears. We have an 04 RAV4 with over 316k miles, although it has its share of oil leaks and creaks...it runs strong and just won't die (although it probably will now, since I said that.)...we will probably be going back to Toyota again and its not exactly my first preference, but I bring up this vehicle because it makes it easier to go back.

Even Toyota saw a need to couple a traditional first gear with their CVT in the Corolla...the performance impact from a stop is clear to Toyota, that's why they did it...I also have concerns about reliability but I understand all manufacturers can have a component fail prematurely for various reasons...even so...the CVT premature failures and problems involving various brands especially with vehicles being used for towing also seems to be a clear longevity issue.
Gixhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.