Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday November 28, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Member's Car Gallery

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2020, 03:59 PM   #1
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default JarHarms EJ engine project

My current engine has not failed yet but it is an EJ255 after all. So yay for those con rods holding out. The plan is to spend this year driving the WRX, working out kinks in the existing system, resisting taking it apart right away, and using this time to sort out a replacement engine. Decided to experiment with separating this engine project experience onto its own thread. This thread.

TOC:
Decided built 2.5L over JDM 2.0L >Post #3<
GSC valvetrain parts >Post #6<
BC exh cam adjustable gears >Post #10<
Timing belt guides >Post #11<
Hybrid Tbelt tensioner and idlers >Post #13<
pretty much my entire March through October 2020 was spent dealing with vendor incompetence
HeadGames D25 cyl heads >Post #25<
3/25 short block v1.0 shipped.
5/3 after much inquiry, v1.0 sent to wrong address due to being miss-labeled.
5/4 UPS returns v1.0 to builder, deck surface damaged, cases replaced.
6/9 short block v1.5 shipped.
6/12 tracking stops dead, waited through 3 rounds of UPS claims. This spanned mid-June to mid-August.
8/16 builder claims v2.0 ready to go in case v1.5 is lost or damaged.
8/18 after much inquiry, UPS found package, label rubbed off, packaged opened, no internal documents found, engine ruined, returns v1.5 to builder.
8/19 asked builder to ship v2.0 right away and later pull breather cover off v1.5 and ship to me, builder draws blank on breather cover.
8/31 Not exactly sure why v2.0 that was ready to go is now waiting extra 2 days for parts to come in. Asked builder include documents within package to avoid repeat of prior loss. This is around the time my patience completely evaporates.
9/11 v2.0 is supposed to be shipped with head gaskets.
9/15 builder found deck scuff on v2.0, pulling apart to re-deck cases 0.002" , now v2.5 to ship out by 9/18 or full refund.
9/18 short block v2.5 shipped.
9/22 finally a short block but no head gaskets or breather cover. no identification documents inside package like I had requested. >Post #39<
9/23 head gaskets being drop shipped, build specs need to be scanned
9/30 no head gaskets or build specs, emailed asking again
10/1 head gaskets shipped out yesterday arrived today, still no mention of build specs
10/8 still no build specs, re-emailed asking for those
10/28 still no build specs, emailed yet again asking


====================

I had been stashing away power related parts for years putting off their use for far too long. Finally got those installed last year, tuned, and ready for driving once the weather turns. >Subject WRX's Thread< Just a typical bolt-on setup: EJ255 single active valve control system (SAVCS), e-tuned APv3, 73mm cold air intake (CAI), APS hard inlet w/ 2.4" coupler, 20G/8cm internal wastegate (IWG) bolt on turbo, equal length (EL) headers, cattless 3" bellmouth downpipe, 340lph in-tank, 1300cc, flex-fuel, top mount intercooler (TMIC), tumble generator valve (TGV) deletes, 2nd air delete, etc.
Keeping it simple-ish. Stand alone ECM, rotated turbos, rotated intake manifolds, external (EWG), racing-only, or any of that business was never in my project goals. I do not plan to stray too much from those original constraints. Additionally, I hope to maximize the number of bolt-on components that I can retain.

Average looking but that is the point...


Expect that I will apply my typical overthinking the eff out it thought process to this engine project. That is just how I do, so what is the point in fighting my nature. I cannot really recommend anyone following my path so just read it for some entertainment. I plan to burn money on a non-essential hobby, make a few mistakes, work with some good people, and most importantly increase my knowledge base.



The 1st decision was between swapping in a Japanese domestic market (JDM) EJ207 or going towards a built EJ25 engine.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by JarHarms; 10-28-2020 at 10:10 AM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-25-2020, 04:01 PM   #2
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

JDM EJ207 engines from the GDB-era have cyl heads that do not easily plug and play into my WRX. I am not motivated enough to convert a 16bit drive by cable (DBC) engine to work with my 32bit drive by wire (DBW) ECM. Yes I know it has been worked around but that is already done. The current $3600 pricing of GDB EJ207 engines is very attractive but it is out of the question due to the integration challenges.

This leaves the GRB-era EJ207 engines which are DBW and would integrate easier with a 32bit ECM. How they say, nothing is for free. The GRB EJ207 engines are dual active valve control system (DAVCS) which I would have to convert into SAVCS. This involves swapping exhaust cams, re-lashing buckets, swapping exh cam gears, blocking the exh cam sensor port, and ***8220;properly***8221; using an exh AVCS solenoid delete plate. Hmm...starting to sound like a built engine level of effort already isn***8217;t it? Yes, indeed EJ207 engines run smoother than EJ25 engines, have a higher rpm range, have robust bore support, are alleged to hold 400-ish power levels, and are ***8220;JDM cool yo***8221;. In the end this is a factory assembled block; which is both an advantage and disadvantage depending on how you look at it. I think the current $6000 pricing on imported GRB EJ207 engines is way over-inflated, they might have less miles but come on friend***8230;it is still just a used engine. It is still too spendy even after I sell off the twin scroll parts that I would not be using. If those prices would come down another $1500-$2000 then it would be about right to me.

It is an interesting engine though.


Any of the EJ207 engines just do not integrate into my car without a good deal of effort. After the installation is done there is the tuning behavior that is noticeably different from an EJ25. Ahh it is not looking good for any EJ207 themed engine project. Perhaps I can revisit an GRB EJ207 in a few years if pricing settles down. The way I see it the current cost between a built EJ25 long block and an imported GRB EJ207 engine assembly is closer than I initially thought.



Built EJ25 it is. This opens a crap-ton of options which lead to a crap-ton of decisions to be settled***8230;
compromises to be made.


====================

FYI - If one was going down the path of using DAVCS cyl heads but needing to disable the exh AVCS. There are block off plates from PREtuning that will allow you to completely remove the exh solenoid housings but still maintain proper lubrication to your exh cams. You could also make your own plates or just leave on the solenoid housings...but why? You can either leave the exh CMP sensors in place to keep oil from spilling out or you can find a few companies that make fancy alloy CMP sensor block-off plates. Additionally it is up to you if you leave the exh AVCS cams and gears in place...I would not. Or if you are blocking the oil ports on the exh AVCS cams and swap to non-AVCS gears...I would also not do that. Or you are swapping out to non-AVCS exh cams, gears, then re-lash to the cams...what I would do.
>Thread mentioning those plates...looks like exh CMP block-off plates as well.<
>Photo of those plates<

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-12-2020 at 01:19 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 04:19 PM   #3
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

A built EJ25 short block and D25 cylinder heads setup will plug right into my WRX wiring.
There are many reasons that this is the advantageous path for me. There are less Japan-only sourced components. I am already accustomed to EJ25 low/mid TQ with the gearing in my 6MT. The proper part number D25 heads will accept parts from my current engine. I do not really drive in a way that needs a higher rpm limit. I know how my current turbo behaves on an EJ25. The extra displacement compensates***8230;whoa wait what? I can select components that meet my weird overthinking the eff out it thought process that annoys all my non-car friends. Blah, blah, blah***8230;

The trick is getting all of these selected parts to coexist together inside the case halves without taking an unexpected vacation to the outside. Yea, it is true I have built a few engines and really enjoy the blueprinting process. But those where not Subaru engines. Horizontal engines are temperamental and complex. I just do not have time to mess around with that, so I am going to sub out the short block work. That said I am also going to sub out the cyl head work. In both cases there are competent persons available that work on this day in - day out and at reasonable rates. How can I compete with that? Fact is I can't so all that is left is take advantage of that resource.

But wouldn***8217;t it be great if an engine machine shop was in my basement? I have not though.

Application:
EJ25 block, D25 cyl heads, mostly street driven, occasional track use, E85 flex-fuel use, 57-60lb/min turbo, rev capability 7500-8000rpm, peak boost 25-30psig, wanting to favor street behavior and some ***8220;reasonable***8221; longevity. A completely honest reflection of the current engine: it is more than plenty power for what I am using it for. Maybe even approaching too much power. So I am not chasing a leap in power output for this new engine. I am going for an overbuild to help longevity and add some safety buffer.

-forged pistons - Would prefer 4032 alloy running tighter piston to wall (PTW) specs but I would be okay with 2618 alloy slugs too. The EJ25 bore is pretty wide so a strutted piston would be nice to have. More importantly I want a ring pack that is worth a damn for street use. Crap rings only result in a short lived crap engine.
-connecting rods ***8211; Would have to go beyond factory STI con rods. Decent H-beams with ARP2000 bolts should be enough for my needs. I-beams are great but also tend to be heavier.
-closed deck ***8211; Perhaps overkill but I want the additional pre-load support around the tops of the bores. If I want to eventually increase peak boost I already have some support headroom.
-MLS-type head gaskets ***8211; I do not want to use ring-loc type gaskets or any face o-ringing. I just do not want/need that complication for this engine. Not really sold on those fancy gaskets really being right for the engine I am looking for here.
-larger head studs ***8211; I want more clamp load on MLS head gaskets, so factory bolts will not cut it here. Factory sized 11mm ARP625+ studs are a strong material but still limited by the factory case threads. That leaves 1/2***8221; and 14mm head stud modifications. Those larger studs with higher Tq specs provide more clamp load without having to be made of expensive material. The work to adapt either 1/2" or 14mm to the short block and cyl heads is the same, so going 14mm is a no brainer. Plus 14mm studs are roughly the same part cost as 11mm ARP625+ studs. I am already committing to major block machine work so adding 14mm threads now is an opportune time to get it done. Getting the cyl heads and head gaskets opened up for 14mm shouldn***8217;t be terribly difficult either.

-cyl heads ***8211; As long as they are the same D25 versions I have already I am happy. I contemplated moving to B25 cyl heads but then my current set of D25 heads would not work as a backup pair. D25 heads have good chambers and will work for my needs. All of the AVCS plumbing and other parts all convert over seamlessly from my existing engine assembly. The final compression ratio (CR) will tend to run a bit higher due to the smaller chambers. I can live with that...and being flex-fuel helps too.

timeframe ***8211; I have time on my side so I can meticulously choosing the components and builders the best suits me.



So who am I going to get to do the short block and cyl head work? Sometimes talk to your builder for their recommendations is not as simple as it seems.
Actually I greatly dislike seeing that lame response on our forum. I mean yes obviously that will eventually happen but right off the bat "advance to go (collect $200)"? Come on...

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-12-2020 at 01:20 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 04:29 PM   #4
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

More specifically...
Who can perform this engine work while meeting my needs (components, usage, etc), accuracy requirements (blueprinted correctly), and how well they communicate. Yea it***8217;s that last part that make things tougher than just ordering a short block and cyl heads online and wait for them to arrive at your door. I poked around the websites of almost all the engine and cylinder head builders that are often mentioned on the Subaru forums. I sorted those down to a few that offered what I was looking for and had good reputations. Face it pricing is also important and one should not be embarrassed to admit that.
A problem occurs when pricing becomes the 1st level decision factor. That is not always the path leading to greatness. That said I was ready to send some emails out. I figured this would take at least 2-3 months to sort out.

I emailed two short block builders; one that is quite popular and another suggested to me. I also emailed the MFRs of the components those builders advertise they use. Keep in mind that I have been researching all those websites, catalogs, and internet/forum info long before sending any emails. I also emailed two cyl head builders; both are popular choices. Same "interviewing" process as used on the engine builders. In the end this all surprisingly took only 3 weeks. I think that is because I was able to knock off one of the builders off my list early on. I probably do not fit the customer profile they are targeting. Going with that builder would have risked an unsatisfactory experience for me...but likely fine for them since they already have money. Super Lame. I'll say it they could not answer simple inquiry questions and in the end effing pissed me off.



This is not meant to be a high HP build or a budget built. Probably something in-between.
Now to commit and get that money ready...like a marriage.

Last edited by JarHarms; 03-26-2020 at 06:12 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 04:31 PM   #5
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

It has begun...now I am caught up to today.

The short block bill of material (BOM) is done and the deposit was sent. I was able to scavenge an earlier alloy rear breather cover off an old EJ251 block I had sitting around. Much nicer than the flimsy stamped steel covers Subaru uses now. I also got the wrist pin cover, plugs, washers, and screws so I can ship that all over to the engine builder. Ballpark 3-4 weeks I should get those back with a short block attached.

I never tripping over the old block would pay off someday



short block plan
new nitrided EJ25 crankshaft
used case halves *used case selected on purpose
new case bolts/seals *ARP overkill for my use
closed deck
milled for Tomei MLS head gaskets *is a Tomei-USA, not a Tomei-JPN gasket but it should be okay
threaded for 14mm head studs
pinned and line bored mains *important!
CP pistons w/ upgraded rings & wrist pins *recommended by builder instead of Manley
Callies H-beam con rods w/ ARP2000 bolts *recommended by builder instead of Manley
12mm oil pump *selected per builder oil clearances



Need some cyl heads to cover up those fancy pistons.

Last edited by JarHarms; 06-18-2020 at 12:36 AM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 12:34 AM   #6
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Bam! Some new stuff showed up today.





Last edited by JarHarms; 02-26-2020 at 11:57 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 01:41 AM   #7
JDMJNKY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 253498
Join Date: Jul 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: sOuL-CaLiFoRnIa
Vehicle:
02 RSTI
MURK'D

Default

subscribed, again.
JDMJNKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 02:46 PM   #8
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMJNKY View Post
subscribed, again.
Right on man.


The cyl head bill of material (BOM) is done and the deposit was just sent in. I was able to get most of the valvetrain on a recent sale which freed up enough money to add some minor porting work. Porting was not in my original plan but...Yey bonus! I will get these parts shipped off to the cyl head builder this week. Ballpark looks like 4 weeks but I expect it might take longer.

cyl head plans
new factory D25 castings - retaining my AVCS pipe routing
pocket porting, guides, valve job, milled, assembled
drilled for 14mm studs
bench lash to cams
new factory lifter buckets
GSC s2 billet camshafts *selected over s1 grind per builders recommendation
GSC beehive spring Ti retainer kit *selected per builder and MFR recommendations
GSC bronze guides
GSC spring seats and seals
GSC std size intake
GSC std exhaust valves *selected per builder recommended over super alloy



I have a slew of other parts to collect and some remaining decisions to make. Having extra time is nice so I can work on those details here and there. Meanwhile the short block and cyl heads are progressing in parallel.

Last edited by JarHarms; 03-01-2020 at 11:01 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 03:11 PM   #9
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Now to sort out some details on the timing drive: gears, tensioner, idlers, belt, etc.

Gears - Obviously this WRX is SAVCS so AVCS intake gears will be needed. I have been looking in for sale threads but dang...people want nearly new pricing for used gears. So I am starting to lean towards new gears which avoids disassembly then getting them back together correctly. It isn't as easy as just slapping them back together. For the exhaust cams I have a set of BC gears at my disposal if I need them. Considering using those if the exh cams need some re-adjustment. Not super thrilled with pinch bolt adjustable gears in general but that is how they are all made.

Belt Tensioner - Have not seen much posted about those retro-hybrid belt tensioner kits that are now available. These are a hybrid tensioner bracket that uses the earlier EJ18-EJ22 linear tensioner and adds the small diameter idler from the later EJ20-EJ25 engines. I do not have any tensioner bracket right now so I can pretty much decide from scratch which way I want to go.
Example RCM's high grip belt tensioner kit:


Timing Belt - Initially I did not think I need to go beyond a standard timing belt. However since I am running increased pressure valve springs, increased cam lift, and raised engine revs a reinforced belt is likely needed. Still need to check a few things before I decide yes/no on that. Do the reinforced belts (blue / red) still transfer color debris onto the idler surfaces?

Idlers - Subaru cog for sure. Not certain on the smooth idlers. If the int cams degree fine then Subaru idlers. However I expect int cams will be off. Not exactly sure how confident I am on those offset idlers yet. Pretty sure all* of those offset idlers use the older single row bearings. Awhile back Subaru updated to dual row idlers due to single row idler failures. I am sure going single row limits the service life in general...then add the earlier tensioner (more belt tension) and further reduction in service life. Still reading up on those and hoping I can get at least to a 60K service interval. I could maybe live with 60k timing belt service intervals but an early idler failure is a no-go.
* LIC is single roller. Crawford is no longer made but were single roller. I may have stumbled upon another that uses dual roller.




I also need a clean place to do this work and a disassembled 5MT is hoarding my work bench right now.


====================


BAAA 5MT is all finished up and off my work bench. Had to check out the internals and ended up converting the ball bearing TR gear for taper bearing TR gears.

Last edited by JarHarms; 07-13-2020 at 01:37 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 12:37 PM   #10
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Some other parts ordered yesterday and those "just in case" gears trickled in as I got home. These were never taken out of the box and just sitting around. I would rather the black versions but for the cost I cannot really complain. If cost was not an option I would opt for RCM's gears due to having steel centers similar to the old school JUN gears.


Looked around for the FU cam bolts I bought way back when. And just in time to test fit before I ship parts out for the cyl head work. Looked these gears over, checking for problems, make sure they fit correct on the exh cam, the FU bolts all thread properly in cams, etc.


BC's description is a bit off... "BC adjustable cam gears deliver the easiest way to dial in more horsepower and/or torque without getting underneath the valve cover, disassembling the engine or dealing with onboard electronics. BC gears are CNC machined from aerospace grade, 6061-T6 billet aluminum for ultimate tensile strength. Easy to read, laser etched face features micrometer style markings for precise adjustment (up to 10 degrees in each direction) and quick tunability. Each hub is held down by six five Grade-8 hex bolts for maximum clamping ability. Hard anodized finish prevents premature surface wear." Let me just fix that for you. Also some places note that these bolts are ARP or ARP-made...they are not.

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-07-2020 at 06:26 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 09:23 AM   #11
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Additional parts came in.
Although the stickers on the outside of the boxes direct to a non-functional instruction page link. Then I find my way to the product support page and none of these part numbers are posted.

Getting away from grumpy and back to interesting. LOOK at this mammoth timing belt guide! The Tomei guide I used on the current engine was a bit wider then factory.
I wanted to be able to assemble the Tbelt system on this engine without having to strip down the current engine (reduce swapping time). So I thought try out another brand belt guide, plus this one "damn better" work along with their belt tensioner kit too. Personally I think this much extra width is unnecessary but it's what we're going with now.
IAG v2 [ENG-5101] guide - 31.76 mm (some of the width is behind the bolting plane)


Tomei-US [TB103A-SB01A] guide - 23.05 mm
Note that this is not a Tomei-JPN [191263] guide, it does not have the machined sections on the top. This was bought after Tomei-JPN kicked Tomei-US to the curb. Like most current Tomei-US parts this [TB103A-SB01A] guide is likely made by another MFR and re-branded as Tomei. I would guess this is a re-branded Boomba guide. Sort of sad huh?


Actual Tomei-JPN [191263] guide. Comical that Tomei-US still uses this product photo on their webpage.


Subaru factory guide - 20.35 mm (should have only counted the flat section though)

Last edited by JarHarms; 04-05-2020 at 10:36 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 01:40 PM   #12
BaronOBeefdip
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 320335
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Omaha, NE
Vehicle:
2005 STi
It's WRB-y

Default

Subscribed, interested to see how this pans out. Reminds me a lot of my thought process and what I went through with my build(I am also very choosy and overthink things to no end), however if/when I were to do it again, there would be at least a few things I would be doing differently, similar to what you're doing.

Specifically, a larger oil pump, different valvetrain, larger studs, and pinned mains. I kind of regret not doing the valvetrain/porting actually; would've allowed for some gains up top. But then my running gear only had 31k miles on it when I dove in. I reused the entire valvetrain, except for seals obviously. I have the Tomei US guide apparently, then. I was not aware of the difference, kinda wish I knew at the time. Also wanted to go with one of the uprated belts at the time, but didn't want to spend $180 on a belt. Like I said, looking back I would have done some things differently.

Everything you opted for other than that is pretty identical to my setup. I was also wary of the offset idler pulleys. Plus in my case, I didn't think I needed them as the gasket thickness offset the material taken out of the heads/decks. And also wouldn't the tensioner account for some of that as well?

Had you also considered PRETuning for the build as well? That's who I would consider for the bottom end stuff next time around for sure.

Side note: since you've built some engines in your time, I'm sure you're aware of this, but.....the FSM says to install the belt as normal with all but the lower left idler installed....do not do this. Install all the idler pulleys, then fit the belt. I was an idiot and almost ruined an SB with $4k worth of parts/work in it.

Last edited by BaronOBeefdip; 03-05-2020 at 02:17 PM.
BaronOBeefdip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:46 PM   #13
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Cool. These do sound like similar scenarios and overthinking.
I stopped apologizing a long time ago for how I go about my projects. It is the process and thinking that I enjoy so why fight it. I***8217;m spending time on this thread for the obvious reasons but just as much as a tempering my future activity in general.

I already have the short block builder selected and committed to. They build to the 12mm oil pump so that is what I sourced. I am contemplating some minor internal deburring and checking the bypass circuit on the pump prior to install. The main pinning and line bore (not line hone) is critical for what I am trying to achieve here. What do I have to lose? At worst it ends up being unnecessary and just extra cost. While that level of machine work is being done it makes sense to go 14mm head studs now. I***8217;m just not a fan of the 14mm head stud source pointless drama. There is some work I wanted to add into the short block components but decided it was not prudent (or fair) to ask the short block builder to add that into his process.
The valvetrain I am less certain of but relying heavily on the builders***8217; recommendations. My uncertainty is the porting and going S2 cam grind. Might not be taking advantage of those as much with the turbo (or next turbo) I run. The rest of the valvetrain parts are pretty strait forward. I would naturally steer towards Ferrea valves but sticking to all the same MFR for all the parts and squeaking a little cost out is okay. Again I am relying a lot on builder recommendations.

Dang it I just forgot that should be running this past my tuner as well. I am missing a crucial step right there. This plan is following a basic direction we had talked about last year though. https://jaztuning.com/



I do not think using the Tomei-US guide is a problem at all. I just find it funny how some aftermarket outfits really look when you see ***8220;under their hoods***8221;. I am still deciding on the Tbelt I want to use; as in standard, up-rated, and then what brand. There is all kind of info to sift through: What Tbelts can I get routinely year after year? Which of these Tbelts are really just re-branded gates racing (most of them are)? I don***8217;t want any of that fancy color debris rubbing all over the place. Overthinking stuff like that. So far I am leaning towards a standard gates Tbelt and a proactive 60k maintenance interval. If using the offset idlers I am already at 60k maintenance. Again this is NOT my daily driver so I can accept this. If I needed a up-rated Tbelt then I***8217;m already accustomed to 60k maintenance. I am planning to run one of those retro-hybrid belt tensioner setups so I should have plenty of tension capability.

IAG competition belt tensioner [ENG-5110BK] but I'm calling it a high grip tensioner since I am fairly certain RCM pioneered this setup:
Subaru 13073aa230 [NTN nep31-003b-4g1] small diameter idler (~$61),
Subaru 13069aa037 [NSK 70tb0912w-1] tensioner pulley (~$83),
Subaru 13068aa051 tensioner (~$108),
Subaru 13091aa060 tensioner seal *for the newer tensioner mount (~$5),
bolts, etc..


My hesitation on using those offset idlers is not idler slip really. It is the reduced load rapacity going from 2-row to 1-row bearings. I have a set of the LIC offset idlers on hand. Hard to tell on my quick look over but I am really hoping that bearing sections can be pressed off/on the offset drilled center. Would rather have $40 bearing swap than $170 idler replacement every 60k. *No I do not think this is possible, you would have to replace the entire assembly. I am hoping that I do not end up needing these idlers. Maybe I can correct timing with intake gear tooth re-positioning instead... eh. Using these offset idlers would also need resetting at each 60k maintenance***8230;ehh. In my situation I am also dealing with the material removed during the line bore, plus block decking, and cyl decking x2. The tensioner system just handles belt tension not so much altering the belt lengths between crank and each gear. These idlers or adjustable gears handle those length alterations.

Assembled with NSK idler bearings *like Subaru's earlier 13073aa180 (NSK 60tb0648) 1-row idlers that were superseded to 13073aa142 (Koyo pu306030frr9h) 2-row idlers



*Stumbled upon another offset idler set that looks to be built using dual row bearings. I am trying to get a set of these to look over and will add in any info to this post. Took a bit of fussing to get a set of S&S offset idlers in my hands for a look over. These are certainly made with dual roller bearings of a reputable quality. They do not come with any hardware, instructions, or suggested TQ spec. I can deal with the lack of instructions and TQ specs but the hardware sort of sucks. The factory bolts are going to be too short, maybe the earlier bolts would be the correct length. Personally if I were to need offset idlers on this engine I would hands down rather have these over the single row types.


Will need a Subaru 13085aa080 cog idler (NSK 59tb0515) also.

Yep that lower idler. Hey it is always worth mentioning stuff like that since not everyone knows or it is easy to forget. I always physically and verbally threaten the Tbelts on with all of the idlers in-place.

Last edited by JarHarms; 07-25-2020 at 01:24 AM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 04:25 PM   #14
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Have been searching for tools that work with Subaru's odd M13x1.50 crank bolt threads. Have to figure out crank degree wheel mounting and (possibly) fluidamper balancer removal/install tools. All of the readily available tools are either M14 or M12 . I bet I'll have to come up with something jafro inspired for this.
*The M13 crank bolt slips right through a 1/2" drive socket so I think I have a planned rig to setup. I have scoured around the internet and yet to find anyone that shares how they mount a degree wheel on a EJ engine...let alone performing the full degree process. Only one youtube video and it only shows part of the process. I have have done cam degree on other engines before so doing the actual job should not be difficult. Already have a used crank bolt but will have to order some other parts to build the rig and trial run it when the short block and cyl heads arrive.

Found a thread that made a fluidamper install tool from scratch. >mhWRX's thread is pretty good< Not sure I want to go at figuring that out right now. If I can just find a M13x1.50 threaded rod or longer bolt, I could just make a less sophisticated version of his installer. I initially installed my fluidamper by drawing it on with the crank bolt (probably most do it that way) and it worked out fine. I do not recall the draw-on resistance to be that much.
I also need to modify my Comp23 crank pulley tool (503v2) to work with my fluidamper. Just needs three new holes and some bolts.


While I wait for parts to arrive and professionals to do there thing...I can spend some time thinking over other tasks that will come into play after the engine install. This engine will go through various break-in oil stages so I feel that doing oil tests at each stage would be informative. Last time I did any oil testing was with Blackstone.
Yikes they currently want $30 for their standard test plus $10 for TBN. $40 per test seems a bit over inflated compared to their peers. Since I'm looking at at least 8 tests during a short period of time Blackstone just priced themselves out and their universal averages are useless to me. I am running trial tests on two other labs with oil from my other car to see which I like better (results, speed, etc). Postage is probably around $3.
-Polaris Lab tests via Amsoil for $22 plus $4 postage...has TBN and comprehensive datums
-ALS Lab test via WIX for $10 plus $4 postage...has TBN but not some other datums

I am interested in real data on what engine oil the engine can "really" live on with the build power level, specs, and pump gas. Does it have to be fancy Motul-like oils or can a readily available oil like M1 or Castrol 0w40 suffice. What sort of oil change interval (OCI) is reasonable and practical. THEN do this all over again for E85 use and see the impact on oil type and change intervals.

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-12-2020 at 01:29 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 06:22 PM   #15
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

I expected it to slow down while I wait for building to happen. Good news though. 1)The short block was finished this week and waiting to begin it's shipment to me. 2) Also got word today that cyl heads should be ready to ship by end of this week.
Great. Once those come in I can make some workspace and look them over. I expect that this global virus pandemic will continue to slow things down.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 09:16 AM   #16
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
05 Saabaru JDM STi
Black Ver 7 VF48 6sp RA

Default

Im not the built engine type but enjoyed the read, subscribing.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 11:27 AM   #17
BaronOBeefdip
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 320335
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Omaha, NE
Vehicle:
2005 STi
It's WRB-y

Default

The oil would depend on what your bearing clearances are, which obviously will take some time to research. What does your builder have to say on the matter? I can tell you that you're going to have a shorter OCI for sure.

I just noticed above that Jason is your tuner, small world. He's a good friend of mine. Oh, and he looks at my car from time to time
BaronOBeefdip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 11:47 AM   #18
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOBeefdip View Post
The oil would depend on what your bearing clearances are, which obviously will take some time to research. What does your builder have to say on the matter? I can tell you that you're going to have a shorter OCI for sure.
I just noticed above that Jason is your tuner, small world. He's a good friend of mine. Oh, and he looks at my car from time to time

For sake of full circle: I know break in oil will be Driven (Joe Gibbs) BR30 or BR40. I will be bypassing the air-oil engine cooler during the break in period to keep that debris out of the core. Then go into the first few fills of operation oil.

For operation oil the builder mentioned Motul, which I am not opposed to using. I plan to use the oil weight spec'ed in their blueprint info. However Motul is not a local grab and go type of ordeal around me. I do 100% agree with you on expecting shorter oil change intervals (OCI), especially with E85. Having a consistent local sourced oil would be helpful for these shorter OCIs. I'll be monitoring oil tests throughout, build a trend, and eventually adjust OCIs if permissible. I use decent oil filters, have increased oil sump capacity, run the RASC oil cooler, and honestly this car will have an easier life than a strait track car. Oil samples are not really expensive and I find the data interesting to look through.


Hell yes. Jason has been great. I hope to keep him involved with my "lunacy" project. After I eventually get this engine and the final turbo setup all sorted in, I have to entice him to Illinois to get this thing on a dyno.

Last edited by JarHarms; 07-06-2020 at 11:23 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 09:27 PM   #19
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Cylinder heads arrived last week but did not have much time to look into them. Was a bit disappointed in the return packaging. I see some metal debris so these will have to be gone through COMPLETELY before any use. Can't recommend anyone unbox these, install, and run.

No word on the short block yet. Hoping to hear something about it this week.

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-14-2020 at 01:53 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 10:29 PM   #20
motorbykemike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 273868
Join Date: Feb 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

what mfg is the timing tensioner bracket ?
motorbykemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 10:34 PM   #21
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

It is an IAG version. The ONLY reason I went with that version over RCM was a recent sale made it price point "hard to beat".

Last edited by JarHarms; 05-07-2020 at 04:22 PM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 11:07 PM   #22
TDagen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163648
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Xona 7864 UHF
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
V9 6mt R180 Brembos

Default

Following along.

Who did the heads for you?
TDagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 11:09 PM   #23
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Headgames in NJ
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 10:17 PM   #24
JDMJNKY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 253498
Join Date: Jul 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: sOuL-CaLiFoRnIa
Vehicle:
02 RSTI
MURK'D

Default

You're so informative Jhamm; Appreciate the share of knowledge.
JDMJNKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 02:44 PM   #25
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

It has been awhile and this project hit a spell of turbulence. Like all projects tend to do.

The short block v1.0 was built promptly on the expected date. Unfortunately the shipping carrier took it to an incorrect address and it took awhile to figure out what happened. *Although exactly whom put the label on the package? Once we figured that out, it was send back to the builder for inspection then re-ship back to me. The inspection found some damage on the deck surfaces. So that means another set of seasoned cases need to be prepared to build a v1.5 version. It will work out in the end but still a tough break. Maybe a couple of weeks and I will have something to look at. While I wait I guess I will re-gasket my shop air compressor.

I finally had time to look over the cyl heads closer. Overall the work looks solid, they communicated well along the process, and ultimately met their completion estimate. Roughly 20 work days but likely less since new cores were ordered. Here they are sporting the GSC gear.


However there is a catch. I must disclose that I am picky...SUPER PICKY. Since I am not sponsored and pay my own way; I feel justified in my degree of scrutiny. Besides when is having high standards a BAD thing?
These shipped in Hgames boxes and packing material. The forward cam cap assemblies are removed and in separate smaller boxes for shipping. Separate is a good idea to avoid shipping damage to the AVCS mountings. The cyl head exh studs poked through one of the small boxes during shipping. So (depending on how positioned inside the box) studs could have poked through and damaged the underside of the cam cap assembly. I was lucky and no damage was incurred. Whew...dodged one there
So what if damage would have happened? All their good work could be effed up from a botch packing job. You cannot buy new cam cap assemblies separately from complete cores so you would be repairing or starting over. This risk was completely avoidable.

So further down the rabbit hole we go... The cyl heads were packed with deck faces downwards. Faint marks on the decks were seen through the plastic bags. I found a few alloy debris floating around in those bags. So essentially this debris settled between the deck and bag with cyl head weight pressing against the cardboard box. All while jiggling around on its journey to me. So these decks are probably functional but still not right by my picky standards. I completely accept that cleaning out 100% of the machining debris is not realistic. This risk was also completely avoidable. A few layers of masking tape covering the decks is all it takes.

Debris you say... So I cannot tell if any of the oil galley plugs were removed for cleaning or not. Those allen plugs are a PITA to get out, and these look too "nice". So I have to expect that this was not done. My mind goes directly to how much debris should I expect inside there?
*I did email them some questions and photos. Also confirmed that the oil gallery plugs are removed during their process. So logically mine were removed as well...but were they? A bit of back and forth communication on the deck marks. They suggest these were not deep enough to warrant re-milling. My engine builder and I disagree since a few of these are right in the combustion seal area. HG offered to re-mill these (not certain if that includes all re-shipping costs) but I really do not want to risk any more shipping. Effing A. So I am going to try some other things to see if I can make it work. If these have to be cut again I'll just have it done at a trusted local shop.
Overall I'm less enthusiastic about the outcome since those issues could have been easily avoided.

An example of a few of the deck inclusions. Hard to tell in photos though.




This is a my 100% transparent experience to show some of the things that you deal with. Not just posting up ONLY the "ohh shiny parts, everything is awesome, now vape" narrative.

Last edited by JarHarms; 09-14-2020 at 11:39 AM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.