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Old 10-21-2020, 02:55 PM   #2801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealric View Post
Direct currency conversions are almost never accurate in determining how much a car will cost in the U.S. Pricing is set differently for different markets for a variety of reasons.
This speculated 4.5 to 5.5M JPY translates to a little more expensive than their top-level, loaded STI on the bottom end to about as much as the S208 started out there on the high end. It would suggest about $45k to $55k for USDM.

That's possible, but would be highly unusual that they're jumping an entire price tier from one generation of an established model to the next. If they plan on rolling out a DCT and full eyesight suite as standard on base STI, pointing to 400hp as partial justification for revolutionary price change (over otherwise evolutionary changes that justify no price increase) would help that make more sense.
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:06 PM   #2802
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Thereís no way that the new STI is approaching the $56k price of an RS3. It could be the most amazing STI ever, but itís going to be sold and serviced by dealerships more used to dealing with the buyers of $25,000 Crosstreks.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:49 PM   #2803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Thereís no way that the new STI is approaching the $56k price of an RS3. It could be the most amazing STI ever, but itís going to be sold and serviced by dealerships more used to dealing with the buyers of $25,000 Crosstreks.
I want the RS3 to have my babies. if I could afford that price, I would drive the RS3, not the Subaru.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:57 PM   #2804
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Subaru is not offering a DCT. No matter how much power Subaru throws at that 6 speed, people gonna bog the **** out of it. It will prolly be slower than the current STI. Might trap higher, but the RS3 and CLA45 are launching and getting away from an STI easily. STI with 400 hp might be as quick as a Golf R with DSG. Look at the FoRS. Loses big to the German dual clutch cars in drag races.

Am I do this right.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:16 PM   #2805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
I want the RS3 to have my babies. if I could afford that price, I would drive the RS3, not the Subaru.


Iíll be looking closely at the new RS3 and comparing it to the new STI. One reason for choosing the STI might be the MT. Well, that and likely still substantial price difference.
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:14 AM   #2806
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I thought the STI and most cars were often more expensive in other markets? How does that price compare to the prior model in the same market?
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:10 AM   #2807
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dont forget VIR lap times...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Subaru is not offering a DCT. No matter how much power Subaru throws at that 6 speed, people gonna bog the **** out of it. It will prolly be slower than the current STI. Might trap higher, but the RS3 and CLA45 are launching and getting away from an STI easily. STI with 400 hp might be as quick as a Golf R with DSG. Look at the FoRS. Loses big to the German dual clutch cars in drag races.

Am I do this right.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:36 AM   #2808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Diamond View Post
Iíll be looking closely at the new RS3 and comparing it to the new STI. One reason for choosing the STI might be the MT. Well, that and likely still substantial price difference.
i love the new gen RS3 coming. Its sort of a mini dream car for me. The almost $20k price is huge and I wonder how these sell used (depreciation/speed of sale). I like sedans and nothing under
$60k excites me.
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Old 10-22-2020, 10:32 AM   #2809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subUrbanAuthority View Post
I thought the STI and most cars were often more expensive in other markets? How does that price compare to the prior model in the same market?
Yes, that is usually the case. 1) A lot of other countries are smaller, and Subaru sells less cars, so they have to increase the price to make it worth being in the market (look at Canada). 2) A lot of other countries include VAT and other gov't taxes which increase the price tag. 3) The value of X currency vs JPY makes it necessary to adjust the local price to insure margins are kept.
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Old 10-22-2020, 10:37 AM   #2810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn View Post
i love the new gen RS3 coming. Its sort of a mini dream car for me. The almost $20k price is huge and I wonder how these sell used (depreciation/speed of sale). I like sedans and nothing under
$60k excites me.
But, transverse engine and FWD-biased AWD. That would be my concern.
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Old 10-22-2020, 10:43 AM   #2811
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
But, transverse engine and FWD-biased AWD. That would be my concern.
That is one of the main reasons why I don't buy VAG, also the fact that you can't disable nannies completely.

Last edited by Skylab; 10-22-2020 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:37 PM   #2812
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But, transverse engine and FWD-biased AWD. That would be my concern.
Heavy consideration for me as well.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:46 PM   #2813
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I'm not sure why having a longitudinal engine hung TOTALLY IN FRONT OF THE AXLE is somehow superior to a transverse set up, but OK.

Neither of these are purpose engineered sports cars. One is a hotted up semi-luxury car. The other is a hotted up entry level car. If they're anywhere near the same price, you would be crazy to choose the Subaru.

Of course, it's plainly obvious that they won't be anywhere near the same price.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:50 PM   #2814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
I'm not sure why having a longitudinal engine hung TOTALLY IN FRONT OF THE AXLE is somehow superior to a transverse set up, but OK.

Neither of these are purpose engineered sports cars. One is a hotted up semi-luxury car. The other is a hotted up entry level car. If they're anywhere near the same price, you would be crazy to choose the Subaru.

Of course, it's plainly obvious that they won't be anywhere near the same price.
It has more to do with the haldex system mated to that transverse engine I think.
But I think this system has evolved from what everyone remembers as a haldex.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:23 PM   #2815
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Originally Posted by J_C_O View Post
It has more to do with the haldex system mated to that transverse engine I think.
But I think this system has evolved from what everyone remembers as a haldex.
I understand being leery of the Haldex but everything is a compromise. I wish Audi was able to offer a Torsen based AWD in the RS3. That's really all that it's missing for me.
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:55 PM   #2816
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Why compare the new WRX with an A3 or CLA body? If this WRX and STI is sized where we think it will be the 188" S4 is the nearest competitor. S4 comes with longitudinal QUATTRO and sport rear diff.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:03 PM   #2817
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The units are made by Borg Warner TTS. Haldex doesn't produce awd units and hasn't since 2011.

The advantages of the TTS system far outweighed the cons, at least for me. Gas mileage was killer - I could get over 35 mpg when I wanted it. The awd system is not reactive like the first generation systems were, it's proactive and tosses power to the rear preemptively. I've logged it on various drives to see, and it's definitely proactive. I still could get a little front wheel slip on hard accel from a stop while turning, but the awd was 100% engaged like 1/10th of a second into acceleration. Hooning around in the snow, it was just like my wrx. Throwing the back end around was super easy. Literally every characteristic of driving my wrx in the snow was unchanged driving the R.

I really think people need to look past the BW-TTS awd system when comparing the wrx/sti to the Golf R. There is so much more beyond the awd setup that make the vw products a lot more compelling.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:13 PM   #2818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
I understand being leery of the Haldex but everything is a compromise. I wish Audi was able to offer a Torsen based AWD in the RS3. That's really all that it's missing for me.
Oh yes! Five cylinder+ torsen RS3
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:54 PM   #2819
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Uneven weight over the front axle and a system that is FWD until slip. Yes, they pre-load 50/50 from a stop, but after that, it's a compromise.

The Evo was transverse, but it wasn't Haldex.
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:15 PM   #2820
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So compare it to a BMW M340i xDrive. That car is 185.7 inches long base price is $55k with 382 underrated hp. If Subaru wants to play in this segment, they'll need to bring the goods.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:57 AM   #2821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
So compare it to a BMW M340i xDrive. That car is 185.7 inches long base price is $55k with 382 underrated hp. If Subaru wants to play in this segment, they'll need to bring the goods.
just don't keep that BMW past the expiration of the warranty.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:00 AM   #2822
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LOL, comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:11 PM   #2823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Uneven weight over the front axle and a system that is FWD until slip. Yes, they pre-load 50/50 from a stop, but after that, it's a compromise.
The system is not fwd until slip. People need to stop stating this. If you want to talk about the MK4 Golf R, yes, that was fwd until slip. But the modern BW system is preemptive. I have personally logged the system activation throughout various driving conditions, dry, wet, snow. It varies continuously and very rarely does anything ever slip without the system being at 100% engagement.

As far as weight distribution, there were a few people who had their R's corner balanced and stock there was a very small difference L to R without a driver in the car. Obviously once a driver gets in all bets are off because everyone weighs different. This isn't a problem.

Last edited by dwf137; 10-23-2020 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:37 PM   #2824
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
That is one of the main reasons why I don't buy VAG, also the fact that you can't disable nannies completely.
Our base Macan is technically a VAG product, has a Longitudinal drivetrain with a 10/90 power split (90% rear) that is a JOY to bomb around on back roads in

I consider it a Golf R with no understeer that can tow.
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Old 10-23-2020, 02:29 PM   #2825
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Our base Macan is technically a VAG product, has a Longitudinal drivetrain with a 10/90 power split (90% rear) that is a JOY to bomb around on back roads in

I consider it a Golf R with no understeer that can tow.
I don't CUV/SUV, so the Macan is well outside of the realm of vehicles I've considered.
I prefer a Longitudinal AWD system over a transverse for that reason, they are typically rear biased; I'd still be leery of a VAG product though, they don't like to let the driver have much control.
Then there was Ford who put out the RS, which although being transverse, could be made rear biased and have the nannies turned off.
The Golf R could be like that, controlled and understeery by default, but at the press of a button be rear biased, it just won't be.
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