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04-07-2008, 02:56 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
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MWSOC
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Vehicle:2002 2.5 WRSX 2005 STI |
Official Transmission Fluid Analysis Thread
I'm starting this thread in order to have some good factual information instead of 50+ pages of "my uncles girlfriends grandfather put Red Line in his Chevy and it went 10 million miles with no problems"... which is what Uncle Scotty's Cocktail thread is looking like now. It's impossible to find any real information in there.
Please keep this thread clean! This is intended as a collection of results NOT a discussion. I would really appreciate moderator help keeping this thread strictly on-topic. Post only official analysis results in the format below. Again -- PLEASE DO NOT POST ANYTHING EXCEPT RESULTS! Post format -------------------------------------------------------------- Vehicle Info Car model: (Impreza WRX, RS, WRX STI, Legacy...etc) Car year: (2000...etc) Transmission: (5MT, 6MT, RA-gears...etc) Modifications: (Anything that may affect transmission wear) Type of Driving: (Slow DD, AutoX, Track...etc) Oil Analysis Oil Used: (Brand and weight, list quantities if multiple oils are combined) Mileage on Oil: (How many miles on the oil when it was analyzed) Analysis Performed By: (Company that did the analysis) Results: (Copy and paste, or link to an image or PDF -- a screenshot of the PDF would be best) Comments: (Any comments or additional relevant info) -------------------------------------------------------------- Getting your oil analyzed: There are several places that do this, I've used Blackstone Labs to analyzed my engine oil in the past. They do gear oil as well. * Go to http://blackstone-labs.com * Request a free test kit. * Grab a sample of oil when you're changing it. * Specify that the sample is transmission fluid/gear oil on the little sheet you fill out. Put down the brand and weight if you know it. * Send it in, cost is $22.50 + whatever it costs to ship. * You will receive the results as a PDF via email (and by regular mail later). Take a screenshot of the PDF, save it as a JPEG, upload it (http://pmgz.net). * Make a post here!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
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05-06-2008, 11:59 PM | #2 |
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Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
bump for any results?
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05-20-2008, 11:47 PM | #3 |
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Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
Haha wow, so no one has sent theirs off to get checked?
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07-08-2008, 10:21 AM | #4 |
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NESIC
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Vehicle:2002 Forester S |
Alright, I've just sampled the Cocktail from my car. Here's what I put on the slip, you may want to copy my wording.
Let me know if you don't see the two pictures. I'll post my results as soon as I get them. As for the rest of you, get off your asses! Last edited by Soul Shinobi; 07-08-2008 at 04:03 PM. |
07-08-2008, 12:44 PM | #5 |
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Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
Added..
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07-09-2008, 08:37 AM | #6 |
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Soul Shinobi props to you for sending in a sample...and your handwriting is just as bad as mine
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07-09-2008, 09:05 AM | #7 |
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Tri-State
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Vehicle:04 FXT 20 OB Onyx XT |
This should be interesting, but there's only 6,500 miles on it so it's nearly virgin in gear oil miles. Post it on bitog as well. I would be interested to see comments by Molakue there (a tribologist and former gear oil blender).
-Dennis |
07-10-2008, 09:56 PM | #8 |
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The Analysis Is In
Alright, got my analysis today. It's pretty technical so we'll have to see what DS1 Motorsports and other gearheads think of it. It's worth noting is that my case here is kind of special because my car is a 1992 with 264,000+ miles on it with the original transmission. Also, my Cocktail was the Heavyweight variant, that is:
1.0 qt. Redline Shockproof Heavyweight 1.0 qt. Pennzoil Synchromesh 1.7 qt. Castrol Hypoy C 80W90 I did find metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug, a little more than I expected. I will be getting the transmission fluid of my friend's '04 WRX done sometime in the next month too, so look out for that. Without further ado... |
07-10-2008, 11:10 PM | #9 |
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A UOA finally. It is a low 90 grade which surprised me because I thought it would be lower. The iron is high but without a baseline, it's hard to say if it is your tranny or if the gear oil caused high wear. I wonder which fluid has so much calcium?
I don't look at gear oil UOA's much so I would be interested in seeing comments from bitog on this and the WRX. You could probably get some opinions from a couple of tribologists, although a TBN and TAN would have been helpful. They probably have some of the gear oil left if you still want to do a TAN. -Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-10-2008 at 11:16 PM. |
07-10-2008, 11:20 PM | #10 |
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Vehicle:2004 Forester STI Silver |
Just sent one in for my 50k on Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90. It still looked pretty usable taking it out. I didn't use Blackstone, so I'm not sure how the results will turn out. I went through a local commercial lubricants company, and they seem to use Polaris, not sure if it's the same Polaris as atv, snowmobile, etc. Maybe not:
http://www.polarislabs1.com/ I'll have to see how much info they provide. I'll reserve this spot for the results. As well, there are a TON of analysis results on www.bobistheoilguy.com Update (7/16/08): Oil analysis is in: The only part of concern was the silicon level, but that can simply be contamination from the draining/filling through the dipstick hole. It's very possible, some external dirt could have gotten mixed with the sample. Then again, it could have been in there earlier. It's not "danger danger Will Robinson" but it's not good to see at these levels or probably any level. Talking to my local lube guy, he said 50k seemed like a good time to change oil simply from the amount of iron and the general desire to remove said iron. He said oxidation and nitration would have be known(at some extra cost) to check on the longevity of the oil itself. Otherwise, there's no concerns over excess wear from bearings, gear faces, and such, so that's good. Update #2 (7-31-08) It seems that the silicon content is most likely not dirt/contaminants but rather some anti-foaming agent Amsoil uses. I've had more than one person comment that they think the gear oil has some sort of silicon based anti-foaming additive. I would really need to send a base line test to the company to verify starting numbers. Last edited by Back Road Runner; 07-31-2008 at 01:22 AM. |
07-11-2008, 12:23 AM | #11 |
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/\ Someone should send some samples of this mixture (used and unused) and see if "Bob" will give us his take on it, that would be interesting...
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07-11-2008, 01:36 AM | #12 |
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Yes, it would be. However, who the hell is actually going to send in an unused sample? You'd have to find someone willing to use the cocktail but also willing to give up a bit of the vital ingredients, substituted by more base fluid in their transmission.
I just had a crazy idea. It's a pain in the ass to get some of these samples checked out, right? Well, what if we set up a fund raiser? $53 for a cocktail, $88 for 4 analysis' (each ingredient and the mix) so we have a baseline for the cocktail as well as knowing what each ingredient contains. That's $141. At a $5 donation per person we'd need 28 people... Hrm, that does seem kind of far fetched.... :-\ Doubt that many people would be really interested. Well, I could just start off with analyzing the mix, that'd only total to $65, and if we got more money we could do each ingredient. I'm just tossing this idea out there, what do you guys think? I wouldn't mind doing it, I've got the time, it's just a matter of getting interest. |
07-11-2008, 09:00 AM | #13 |
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i'd be down to donate.
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07-11-2008, 10:07 AM | #14 |
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Alright, I've also heard from someone else who said they'd be willing to donate $20, which is just a bit less than one analysis. I'm set on starting a donation fund now, I'll make a new topic announcing it when I do.
Just one thing before I do, I want to be sure this will be worth while for us. So let me put the question to you gear-heads out there who are good at reading and understanding oil analysis stats: Would it be helpful to have analysis' done of the unused cocktail? |
07-11-2008, 10:45 AM | #15 |
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I would imagine having the analysis done on new oil would be helpful to set a baseline; for example if it starts out high in iron you know the high readings you saw aren't coming from your trans...
I would be willing to donate for the baseline test, I'll also be sending out my current valvoline 75w90 with around 25k miles on it and switching to Scotty's cocktail to compare. |
07-11-2008, 01:16 PM | #16 |
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You actually need to do several uoa's on the same vehicle to establish a trend. Say you ran 100% Motul and had very low levels of iron. Then you ran the cocktail and your iron shot up. You could then speculate that the cocktail is causing higher iron, thus more wear, than the Motul.
If you did a uoa on the same mileage beforehand with Motul and the iron was around the same level, it's probably just the normal wear in your 264,000 mile Legacy. The WRX uoa may help a little. I would be running some thicker viscosity stuff if I were you. Sometimes thicker will lower the wear rate. I'm gonna get some gear oil experts on this. -Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-11-2008 at 01:38 PM. |
07-11-2008, 02:55 PM | #17 |
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Brilliant idea, OP.
Reserving for a UOA on my Redline 75w-90NS at 30k. |
07-13-2008, 12:38 PM | #18 |
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Soul Shin - I hope you don't mind, but I posted this on bitog and got some comments from a tribologist that specializes in gear oil.
The thread is here. -Dennis |
07-13-2008, 02:24 PM | #19 |
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I don't mind, you could even link my picture if you'd like. That's actually quite interesting, the responses you got there. Knowing that there are people who can look that deep into the results, I think I am going to go ahead and start a donation towards cocktail analysis.
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07-13-2008, 08:32 PM | #20 |
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Very interesting stuff. I've got a transmission full of the cocktail that I'll be replacing and doing a UoA on sometime within the next few weeks for my 60k service. I also have the baseline UoA for the factory fill. I left it in there for 42k miles, so my iron and copper are already high.
Subscribed. |
07-13-2008, 08:50 PM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 130759
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Location: Southern NH, USA
Vehicle:2002 Forester S |
The user sponsored transmission fluid analysis donation fund is up!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1555876 Have at it! Because I may use the fund to pay for the analysis of other member's transmission fluid (by you mailing it to me, then me submitting it to Blackstone Labs) if any of you change your transmission fluid, bottle it in Blackstone Labs' free test kit (link) using their collecting procedure (link) and put it aside just in case. Last edited by Soul Shinobi; 07-13-2008 at 09:48 PM. |
07-13-2008, 09:30 PM | #22 |
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Vehicle:'03 WRX Wagon Silver |
Donated...
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07-28-2008, 05:49 PM | #23 |
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Vehicle Info
Car model: WRX Car year: 2005 Transmission: 5MT Modifications: Stage 2 since Mar 08 Type of Driving: Learned to drive stick on car, autocross, DD Oil Analysis Oil Used: Uncle Scotty's Cocktail - 1 qt Redline LW Shockproof, 1 qt GM Syncromesh, 1.7 qt Castrol HypoC 80w90 Mileage on Oil: 19,000 Analysis Performed By: Blackstone Labs Results: Comments: Notice on my previous analysis how high the iron and copper were. It's possible the clutch plate wear is a holdover from rough usage and a long oil wear. The older analysis was the first 42,000 miles on the transmission: They seem to think Uncle Scotty's mix is not doing great things for me, but with my history of excessive clutch plate wear, this might not be a valid datapoint. For this last change, I put in a Valvoline 75w90. The shift feel is about the same, so I think I'll be on ordinary GL-5 oil from here on out. |
07-28-2008, 07:38 PM | #24 |
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Actually, if you look in the Cocktail thread, there's now 2 transmission builders saying the Cocktail is horribly for our trannys. There's also a UOA showing worse (I think) numbers than yours from the Cocktail. Go check it out.
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07-28-2008, 09:39 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
p.s. For the guy who put a post on bitog, feel free to use both of my UOAs as well. |
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