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Old 08-05-2022, 11:26 AM   #51
Russ_G93
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You don't have to like BEV's and think that the future will put us somewhere else, But... Solid state batteries are still lithium, the only difference is the electrolyte is solid vs liquid. Also, hydrogen is currently worse than gasoline from a CO2 standpoint, so no, that's not currently a solution for anything.
Not talking about a complete hydrogen powerhouse, im talking about hydrogen gas being added to the combustion process of a normal ICE engine. Hydrogen is literally a Zero-Carbon fuel itself. But you can add it to peoples cars today, and solve the issue of Oil prices and the Govt idiocy of outsourcing Oil when the US has more crude oil than most. Add to cars today and you help your people and the atmosphere at the same time, again the goal is getting a Higher burn rate. 40-60 is what vehicles average today, want to talk about an impact? Or does the news issuing warnings to not charge their EV's as much during the summer to prevent the Electrical Grid from shutting down, not mean much to you. They literally just issued this to citizens in Texas (It was news). So...... We burn coal to power our electric cars, while Plastic is still being produced from oil and used Everywhere. Its a fantasy thought to think the earth will be helped like this. Complete Joke honestly.
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:39 AM   #52
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And how do you think Hydrogen is created? It's not a zero carbon fuel. You have to produce said hydrogen, and that process is very carbon intensive, more carbon intensive than just burning fossil fuels for energy. Hydrogen is just another means to store energy.

The government isn't outsourcing oil, that's the private oil industry. Our government doesn't own oil, private corporations do.

Texas is it's own mess as far as the electrical grid and I have zero empathy for their situation. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

Also... electric car charging is a whole lot less energy intensive than air conditioning, or even mining for bitcoin, so imo, those warnings are 100% politically motivated to keep people against EV's.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:00 PM   #53
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The ID.4 is definitely not the entire story and you know it. It's the start of the story. An awd ID3 GTX is slated to come out next year in europe with 295 hp. They had a prototype id.x running around with 335 hp and 460 nm tq to help study what an ID.3 R would be. I would not be surprised if it takes 4+ years for things like that to hit US shores, but I believe it's coming...
Yes, they are coming. That is what I mean, there will likely not be ICE MK9, they can milk the MK8/8.5 for a while. I am hoping Subaru has something in the works for the EV STI but they seem to be behind VW in terms of EV technology.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:15 PM   #54
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Man, I can't believe the July 2022 Solterra sales are causing such a ruckus.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:25 PM   #55
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What you are thinking of is called Steam Methane Reforming, I was thinking Electrolysis, which can literally be done by adding a rig to a current gas vehicle and have Hydrogen gas be "trickled" into the combustion chamber via Hydrogen on demand using a simple ratio sensor. This Method doesn't hurt peoples wallets. This method allows people to travel greater distances without adding time to their trip. It keeps vehicles on the road Longer, Lithium out of landfills longer, Increased mileage and power out of cars which means SMALLER engines, Closer to 90% Burn, which means Less Carbon from your tailpipe into the air. It means allowing going more than a month before needing to refuel with Petrol. It means less lithium to be mined out of Giant holes (Now Scars) in the earth where nothing Green will grow for 100s if not thousands of years. It takes 100,000 gallons of water to mine 1 ton of Lithium. It means you aren't paying for a 12-14 thousand dollar battery for a USED vehicle with 80,000 miles on it. It means less Govt Expenditure for people having EV's and more money towards other things. It means less total load on a cities coal and natural gas powered Electric Grid. No one can say what the typical total strain would be on the grid with a EV in everyone's home, because it hasn't happened yet, but to say brown outs can cut the cold air to retirement homes with sickly people and that of hospitals (Oh they have generators.. YEA FUEL powered ones), doesn't sit well with me at all. The fact that you have Peak hours where your bill Skyrockets upon use (Because that helps lower class people's bills during the hot summers with their apartments not properly insulating cold/warm air.. ). So far, the tech isn't even there to be considered a travel vehicle, there aren't enough chargers to satiate even the current amount of owners.

It allows people a Choice in what they buy and do Based on their financial situation instead of some mandate where by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California must be ZEVs (California). Ev's are not cheap. They are Expensive to make and fix. You cannot work on them at home. Maint items are easy, not a powertrain failure. You don't have the programs or tech tools, and you would need to take time out of your schedule to attend a class to teach you how, and I know most are too lazy or too Old to even do that. Without Factory warranty, a broken down EV with 80-100k miles has a greater chance ending up in a landfill than it does a ICE vehicle, that can be bought by a first time buyer kid with hardly any money.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:31 PM   #56
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In this insignificant man's opinion.. I think any brand, out here trying to use lithium batteries, simply because some Shadow org is trying to shove them down our throats EVEN THOUGH solid state batteries is proven to be better and just around the corner... AND the fact that hydrogen can literally increase your mileage, power, and make your ICE achieve closer to 90-100% burn, is a company trying to shoot themselves in the foot.

No one is going to pay for new 12-14,000 dollar batteries to be installed in cars with 100k on them. They will opt to Junk them, while ICE cars with 200k are still buzzing around the streets. So more lithium and junked car waste like that of trashed cell phones.

Unsustainable. STI deserves Hydrogen, not some P.O.S toxic lithium Battery
This myth that batteries will need to be replaced every 100K miles is silly. Will some cars need to have batteries replaced? Sure just like some ICE cars have transmissions that fail every 60-80K and engines that need to be rebuilt constantly. There are a lot of Tesla's running around with well over 100K miles (some over 200-300K miles) with the original batteries. Will batteries degrade over time? Sure, to some degree but for most it's going to be less than 10% over the life of owning the vehicle.

You also assume battery technology and cost won't evolve and reduce, and it's very likely in 10 years or 100-200K miles you can by a third party battery or a reconditioned battery at a much cheaper price.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:46 PM   #57
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Did you confirm if all 95 of those are on the ground and not in transit?
I haven't looked at all the dealerships within the 100 miles radius of 94560.
But, within 20 miles, 49 WRX reported in total at 4 of my closest dealers:
- 5 in transit of 19
- 1 in transit of 12
- 0 in transit out of 8
- 2 in transit out of 10

So, at the moment, less than 10% are in transit. They are all on lots and are selling at MSRP or below. No sweat.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:58 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post

It allows people a Choice in what they buy and do Based on their financial situation instead of some mandate where by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California must be ZEVs (California). Ev's are not cheap. They are Expensive to make and fix. You cannot work on them at home. Maint items are easy, not a powertrain failure. You don't have the programs or tech tools, and you would need to take time out of your schedule to attend a class to teach you how, and I know most are too lazy or too Old to even do that. Without Factory warranty, a broken down EV with 80-100k miles has a greater chance ending up in a landfill than it does a ICE vehicle, that can be bought by a first time buyer kid with hardly any money.
EV's are significantly cheaper to maintain. Aside from the battery most of the items that will need any type of repair or replacing are standard suspension, brakes, and other normal components like head units, etc.

Also you do realize in CA the warranty on any EV battery is 10 years or 150K miles. Tesla, for example, already offers an 8 year 150K warranty on the higher trim vehicles while the Model 3 and Y (LR and Performance) offer 8 years 120K miles. If the battery is going to fail it will likely do so well before your warranty is up.

For people who are really worried there are also third party warranties.

There is a lot of misinformation about EV's out there. I hear it all the time from friends and family (one family member told me he heard if more than 2 Tesla vehicles try to charge their cars on a Level 2 charger on the same block, the entire neighborhood will lose power). I am not sure what is driving all these strange rumors and myths but it's weird how so much of our society falls for conspiracy theories and myths now because they read it on the Internet or Alex Jones told them.
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:05 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I haven't looked at all the dealerships within the 100 miles radius of 94560.
But, within 20 miles, 49 WRX reported in total at 4 of my closest dealers:
- 5 in transit of 19
- 1 in transit of 12
- 0 in transit out of 8
- 2 in transit out of 10

So, at the moment, less than 10% are in transit. They are all on lots and are selling at MSRP or below. No sweat.
Well just because their website says they are for sale does not mean they actually are available. It is very common for dealers to list on lot or in transit cars for sale that are sold.

Just an example I was looking for new Premium Foresters one dealer had 20 of them listed on their website with about 10 of them being Premium. I called. Every single one was sold (including the ones in transit). 0 available. I can get on a list or they can order me one which will take 3-6 months. Same story at 3 more local Subaru dealers. Same with Crosstrek (every dealer has 15-30 listed on their site but you are lucky to find a couple that are in transit and still available, and they are usually bare bones manual base model or loaded model).

One dealer showed 50 Mazda CX-5's available on his website. Same thing. Called and there were 5 of the 50 still available but they were not built yet and were all the higher trim models I didn't want.

Don't believe the internet. It tells lies.
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:07 PM   #60
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Most people fear change because it represents a loss of control. Control is predictable and stays within sight. Control is familiar.

I prefer approaching things from a drift car racing perspective: Control out-of-control. Just ride it out, Baby!
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:15 PM   #61
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Most people fear change because it represents a loss of control. Control is predictable and stays within sight. Control is familiar.

I prefer approaching things from a drift car racing perspective: Control out-of-control. Just ride it out, Baby!
Ha! I don't fear change but I also will buy what is best for me. Nobody is taking ICE cars away tomorrow and EV's are not going to burst into flames or fall apart any more than an ICE car. In fact I believe we will find EV's far cheaper to maintain due to way fewer moving high combustion parts.

The move towards smaller turbo motors with high compression and expensive transmissions would be more concerning to me if I keep a car 10-15 years and drive a lot than an EV. I know way too many Hyundai and Kia owners who are on the hook for new motors that failed just after their warranty and these things are not cheap to replace if you are buying a new motor.

Like anything as the market for EV's expands there will be way more options for replacement and reconditioned battery packs. As the cost of batteries drops it will be cheaper to replace as well. EV's are such a small percentage of the market right now, it's silly to think the technology and costs won't evolve. The Chinese will push the market, they are way more ahead than most countries and their costs are significantly cheaper than Europe and the US. In 3-5 years it will look very different than it does now.
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:18 PM   #62
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This myth that batteries will need to be replaced every 100K miles is silly. Will some cars need to have batteries replaced? Sure just like some ICE cars have transmissions that fail every 60-80K and engines that need to be rebuilt constantly. There are a lot of Tesla's running around with well over 100K miles (some over 200-300K miles) with the original batteries. Will batteries degrade over time? Sure, to some degree but for most it's going to be less than 10% over the life of owning the vehicle.

You also assume battery technology and cost won't evolve and reduce, and it's very likely in 10 years or 100-200K miles you can by a third party battery or a reconditioned battery at a much cheaper price.
What does a update do to your phone battery. It gradually has your battery not discharge as much nor store as much charge because of usage. The same happens to EV's. Its unavoidable and was already reported to have happened with Tesla in 2019/2020. Yes, these batteries need to be replaced. For the Crosstrek Hybrid, replacement is every 3-5 Years, according to driving habit.
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:18 PM   #63
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Well just because their website says they are for sale does not mean they actually are available. It is very common for dealers to list on lot or in transit cars for sale that are sold.

Just an example I was looking for new Premium Foresters one dealer had 20 of them listed on their website with about 10 of them being Premium. I called. Every single one was sold (including the ones in transit). 0 available. I can get on a list or they can order me one which will take 3-6 months. Same story at 3 more local Subaru dealers. Same with Crosstrek (every dealer has 15-30 listed on their site but you are lucky to find a couple that are in transit and still available, and they are usually bare bones manual base model or loaded model).

One dealer showed 50 Mazda CX-5's available on his website. Same thing. Called and there were 5 of the 50 still available but they were not built yet and were all the higher trim models I didn't want.

Don't believe the internet. It tells lies.
Oh, no worries, I have been calling in because I want to test drive.
Don't get me wrong, I don't expect them to stay on lots forever because it's the Bay Area and people go through cars like they go through shirts.
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:25 PM   #64
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EV's are significantly cheaper to maintain. Aside from the battery most of the items that will need any type of repair or replacing are standard suspension, brakes, and other normal components like head units, etc.

Also you do realize in CA the warranty on any EV battery is 10 years or 150K miles. Tesla, for example, already offers an 8 year 150K warranty on the higher trim vehicles while the Model 3 and Y (LR and Performance) offer 8 years 120K miles. If the battery is going to fail it will likely do so well before your warranty is up.

For people who are really worried there are also third party warranties.

There is a lot of misinformation about EV's out there. I hear it all the time from friends and family (one family member told me he heard if more than 2 Tesla vehicles try to charge their cars on a Level 2 charger on the same block, the entire neighborhood will lose power). I am not sure what is driving all these strange rumors and myths but it's weird how so much of our society falls for conspiracy theories and myths now because they read it on the Internet or Alex Jones told them.
So essentially, every Californian will be paying for everyone else's batteries regardless of choice because of the set Tax-coding and incentives provided by the state and federal govt's to the car companies (Via your paycheck money). So more tax, less in your paycheck to decide how YOU want to spend your money -> Lower standard of living due to all of the other Tax Welfare programs. And you sitting there at a charge station in line while it takes 30min to get a charge. So 3 cars ahead of you 1hr 30. "The Govt will make more charging stations by giving the companies money" - Right, theyre giving them Your Money. So essentially, The common person who doesn't have an EV yet is already paying for other people to charge. That sounds super fantastic

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Old 08-05-2022, 01:58 PM   #65
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So essentially, every Californian will be paying for everyone else's batteries regardless of choice because of the set Tax-coding and incentives provided by the state and federal govt's to the car companies (Via your paycheck money). So more tax, less in your paycheck to decide how YOU want to spend your money -> Lower standard of living due to all of the other Tax Welfare programs. And you sitting there at a charge station in line while it takes 30min to get a charge. So 3 cars ahead of you 1hr 30. "The Govt will make more charging stations by giving the companies money" - Right, theyre giving them Your Money. So essentially, The common person who doesn't have an EV yet is already paying for other people to charge. That sounds super fantastic
Well I don't live in CA but if you are that upset then move. Also you should definitely not be driving an ICE vehicle because the Government has been giving them billions (and likely trillions) in incentives/deferments provided by state and federal government over the years. Compared to EV, it's a drop in the bucket. And at least actual EV buyers are getting a tax break and not just multiple trillion dollar companies who get the tax break and incentive.

No other business or company has more tax incentives than oil companies.

Maybe buy a bike?
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:04 PM   #66
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What does a update do to your phone battery. It gradually has your battery not discharge as much nor store as much charge because of usage. The same happens to EV's. Its unavoidable and was already reported to have happened with Tesla in 2019/2020. Yes, these batteries need to be replaced. For the Crosstrek Hybrid, replacement is every 3-5 Years, according to driving habit.
LOL seriously? Maybe look into a little company called Toyota and their hybrid technology. Ever heard of a Prius? They have been around 20+ years now and no you don't replace the hybrid battery every 3-5 years, most Prius's don't show significant degradation and have been running for hundreds of thousands of miles. From what I can tell the average Prius battery lasts 8-10 years and around 150K miles and costs $2-4K to replace. Of course there are always exceptions just like with ICE cars who have their engine grenade after a few hundred miles.

But the sky is not falling. It will be okay.
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Old 08-05-2022, 03:01 PM   #67
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Ha! I don't fear change but I also will buy what is best for me. Nobody is taking ICE cars away tomorrow and EV's are not going to burst into flames or fall apart any more than an ICE car. In fact I believe we will find EV's far cheaper to maintain due to way fewer moving high combustion parts.

The move towards smaller turbo motors with high compression and expensive transmissions would be more concerning to me if I keep a car 10-15 years and drive a lot than an EV. I know way too many Hyundai and Kia owners who are on the hook for new motors that failed just after their warranty and these things are not cheap to replace if you are buying a new motor.

Like anything as the market for EV's expands there will be way more options for replacement and reconditioned battery packs. As the cost of batteries drops it will be cheaper to replace as well. EV's are such a small percentage of the market right now, it's silly to think the technology and costs won't evolve. The Chinese will push the market, they are way more ahead than most countries and their costs are significantly cheaper than Europe and the US. In 3-5 years it will look very different than it does now.
lol My bad, I didn't even mean for my comment to appear as though it applied to you. I know you embrace change because you've switched vehicles almost as often as Scrappydo. I was more so replying to why people are quick to believe negative or false reports on EVs, or pretty much anything in general. I think it's because EVs are different. And if it's different, it's bad. Which is a very odd reluctance to have when people also complain about everything being the same. But enough similarities are what help people to accept what's familiar, no matter how closed-off it makes them. Plenty of that kind of thinking on this very forum.

I don't look forward to the next STI offering electrification because I just don't see the point. It'll be priced beyond mid-$30k, and I don't think Subaru can hang in the mid-$50k+ crowd with an electrified sports vehicle.
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Old 08-05-2022, 03:45 PM   #68
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lol My bad, I didn't even mean for my comment to appear as though it applied to you. I know you embrace change because you've switched vehicles almost as often as Scrappydo. I was more so replying to why people are quick to believe negative or false reports on EVs, or pretty much anything in general. I think it's because EVs are different. And if it's different, it's bad. Which is a very odd reluctance to have when people also complain about everything being the same. But enough similarities are what help people to accept what's familiar, no matter how closed-off it makes them. Plenty of that kind of thinking on this very forum.

I don't look forward to the next STI offering electrification because I just don't see the point. It'll be priced beyond mid-$30k, and I don't think Subaru can hang in the mid-$50k+ crowd with an electrified sports vehicle.
The average price of a new non-luxury vehicle is now $47K (reported in July based on the previous month).

I do think we will see a correction of sorts (at least I hope) but I think the days of sub $40K STI's are long over even if we had ICE only options.

It's a crazy world. It is getting very expensive. But with high inflation and continued supply chain and supply and demand struggles I would like to think new car prices will stabilize and hopefully drop. Hard to tell.
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:16 PM   #69
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And how do you think Hydrogen is created? It's not a zero carbon fuel. You have to produce said hydrogen, and that process is very carbon intensive, more carbon intensive than just burning fossil fuels for energy. Hydrogen is just another means to store energy.

The government isn't outsourcing oil, that's the private oil industry. Our government doesn't own oil, private corporations do.

Texas is it's own mess as far as the electrical grid and I have zero empathy for their situation. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

Also... electric car charging is a whole lot less energy intensive than air conditioning, or even mining for bitcoin, so imo, those warnings are 100% politically motivated to keep people against EV's.



Is this in general to public use? Doesn't the government have a strategic reserve? That some was recently released to help with cost or whatever?
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:59 PM   #70
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LOL seriously? Maybe look into a little company called Toyota and their hybrid technology. Ever heard of a Prius? They have been around 20+ years now and no you don't replace the hybrid battery every 3-5 years, most Prius's don't show significant degradation and have been running for hundreds of thousands of miles. From what I can tell the average Prius battery lasts 8-10 years and around 150K miles and costs $2-4K to replace. Of course there are always exceptions just like with ICE cars who have their engine grenade after a few hundred miles.

But the sky is not falling. It will be okay.
And yet, the Prius is not an EV. Its a Combustion vehicle. It Relies on combustion. You're also missing the cost and size of battery cells in your comparison. 95 cells in a prius. 800-900 4680 cells in the new Model Y. The size between is both incomparable. Costs 10-12k before fees taxes and install labor. Which means, EV's will still remain favorable for those of us in the high tax bracket, because you are going to attach that extended warranty onto your purchase for piece of mind. And just with what happened in Texas and the current capacity of city grids, our infrastructure is behind. My own sister has already experienced Multiple brown outs this summer in Sacramento, via SMUD, the city utilities corp. Ive been a Toyota Service Advisor. I have plenty of memory of the problems with Prius's. I do not think highly of them, even some aspects of the newer gen 4Runners are not high on my list.
A commenter brought up a great point as well on TheDrive website:

"The fact is that you can recycle anything, but most of the time it is not going to be done if it is not profitable. We know how to recycle electronics, but in real life it ends somewhere in a dump on the coast of Africa, burned by disadvantaged people in open air to recover some metal. Ditto for textile that is the same way is sent to third world pretending it is a "charity" and ends up in open air dumps.
The same is for cars. Many salvage titled cars are already sent to third world for repair or rather to junkyards. Now imagine they have traction batteries with significant disposal cost. They will be sent to Africa 100% to avoid disposal cost, pretending it is for legitimate second-hand use, but most of them will have no significant use there, as old cell phones don't."

We're talking millions of metric tons of Lithium Batteries by 2030-2040, with a world that is not as advanced nor environmentally conscious like 1st World countries, not disposing of these batteries correctly.

Actual reality, and Human action, is entirely different from a projection typed out on a piece of paper.

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Old 08-05-2022, 07:05 PM   #71
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:49 PM   #72
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Recession is also here so***8230;
The unemployment rate is down to 3.5% which is where we were briefly in 2020 before the pandemic. I'm not saying it's all roses, but inflation is not the same as a recession.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-econ...n-july-6374115

Last edited by rexster; 08-05-2022 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:28 PM   #73
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And yet, the Prius is not an EV. Its a Combustion vehicle. It Relies on combustion. You're also missing the cost and size of battery cells in your comparison. 95 cells in a prius. 800-900 4680 cells in the new Model Y. The size between is both incomparable. Costs 10-12k before fees taxes and install labor. Which means, EV's will still remain favorable for those of us in the high tax bracket, because you are going to attach that extended warranty onto your purchase for piece of mind. And just with what happened in Texas and the current capacity of city grids, our infrastructure is behind. My own sister has already experienced Multiple brown outs this summer in Sacramento, via SMUD, the city utilities corp. Ive been a Toyota Service Advisor. I have plenty of memory of the problems with Prius's. I do not think highly of them, even some aspects of the newer gen 4Runners are not high on my list.
A commenter brought up a great point as well on TheDrive website:

"The fact is that you can recycle anything, but most of the time it is not going to be done if it is not profitable. We know how to recycle electronics, but in real life it ends somewhere in a dump on the coast of Africa, burned by disadvantaged people in open air to recover some metal. Ditto for textile that is the same way is sent to third world pretending it is a "charity" and ends up in open air dumps.
The same is for cars. Many salvage titled cars are already sent to third world for repair or rather to junkyards. Now imagine they have traction batteries with significant disposal cost. They will be sent to Africa 100% to avoid disposal cost, pretending it is for legitimate second-hand use, but most of them will have no significant use there, as old cell phones don't."

We're talking millions of metric tons of Lithium Batteries by 2030-2040, with a world that is not as advanced nor environmentally conscious like 1st World countries, not disposing of these batteries correctly.

Actual reality, and Human action, is entirely different from a projection typed out on a piece of paper.

https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...ation_with_ads
This needs to go in another thread, but one of the founders of Tesla left and started a new company years ago and they can recycle (cleanly) 100% of the batteries. The batteries are evolving and Tesla has already started using Iron and offering cobalt free batteries. I highlighted hybrid, because we will see tons of hybrid car, SUVís and trucks over the next 10+ years and to demonstrate the longevity of the batteries.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:12 PM   #74
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What you are thinking of is called Steam Methane Reforming, I was thinking Electrolysis, which can literally be done by adding a rig to a current gas vehicle and have Hydrogen gas be "trickled" into the combustion chamber via Hydrogen on demand using a simple ratio sensor.
What I am talking about is how we create hydrogen for consumer use. It could be methane reforming, or electrolysis. It takes way more emissions to create than what we get out of it.

And I have no clue of this system your suggesting that Subaru add to their cars, but it sounds sorta like methane injection, and pretty sure that's not gonna happen...

The current use for hydrogen in mass produced cars is fcev, and the facts that I mentioned previously stand.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:13 PM   #75
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There is a lot of misinformation about EV's out there. I hear it all the time from friends and family (one family member told me he heard if more than 2 Tesla vehicles try to charge their cars on a Level 2 charger on the same block, the entire neighborhood will lose power). I am not sure what is driving all these strange rumors and myths but it's weird how so much of our society falls for conspiracy theories and myths now because they read it on the Internet or Alex Jones told them.
People fear what they do not understand. Most people live in a box and canít think outside of it. Iíve heard all the same ****. When I put up my panels on the roof 8 years ago the neighbors were all ďdoes the neighborhood allow that?Ē I thought, are you kidding me? We donít have a HOA here Einsteins. And you arenít mounting panels on the roof of your home without city building and electrical inspection. This is a burb not out in the sticks with barb wire fencing etc. It baffled my mind for a good minute. You canít even see my panels from the street. They are all on the back of the house incognito.

The car stuff, oh my. ďSo itís a hybrid?Ē This after explaining it to someone two, three times. No itís 100% E powered homey. Rinse, repeat. Or the odd occasion, once in a while need for a public charger, and there is a Prius that has bricked it. Iím 8.5 years in at this point DDíing an EV, and running panels on the house and all this nonsense, and misinformation, is still being perpetuated. The myths stem from misinformation from the fossil companies, and itís the same as these actors trying to change elections via social media.

Then there is same old nonsense someone will say ďYou arenít changing anything. Do you know where your power comes from?Ē Iím like yeah my got damn roof, and the sun. And what kwh I pull from the grid is wind/solar. Is there some small amount that is nuclear, of course. But none of is fossils burning, I save that for fun. Then I have to inform their dumb aís that I didnít do any of this for political reasons or virtue signaling. I did it for straight cash. Kwh is heaps cheaper than gas for driving, especially when you make your own power. By saving money on energy and gasoline itís allowed me to buy 100% ICE things for fun.

Next theyíll pivot to the federal incentives. I usually start at this point. Because I leased my panels, then bought them. Leased my car then bought it. I even leased my L2 charger then bought it. NRG and Nissan got fed tax incentives, not me. I didnít get a red cent of fed incentives. They are red in the face at this point. Just pissed off someone saved some money or that someone is doing it another way from them. I pour salt on the wound at that point. I explain I saved tens of thousands of dollars leasing all, then buying, and how I havenít spent more than $100 in gasoline in a single month in the last 8.5 years. Oh that sends them over the moon with anger. Why I have no idea because itís my property, my money, not theirs. You said it best, the fossils have received billions and billions of fed incentives all the while recording billions in annual profits. The game was already rigged well before I did any of this. And some of these people cackling at me incessantly drive doing nothing and rack up 20k miles each per year. I mean using gas like hippies smoking grass in the 60ís.

I canít wait to take what Iíve learned about all this and go rural. Panels, windmill, battery storage, generator, my own well. Iíll pay for sat internet and cable, thatís it. And flip the misinformed city folk off from 4 hours away and at elevation.
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