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Old 05-18-2011, 12:53 AM   #151
DeusExMachina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewyguru View Post
Nice. What's your point?
My point is, the only valid point in here are the spoofing of false hashes. Which would require the rest of the system to be so insignificant in popularity that it wouldn't matter.

My understanding is limited, but it is vast compared to some vomiting in this thread. The coins are generated. There is no "spoofing" because to "spoof" a coin would be to generate it. And if it has already been generated, it is validated by the entire network and cannot be re-generated or stolen from another node that has validated it.

"But I like my transactions being tracked.." Well then, cash isn't for you. If you want tracking with your cash, get a receipt.

"What about if ninjas come in and steal your bitcoins?! That's so lame!"
"What about if ninjas come in and steal your dollars/euros/yen?! That's so lame!" IT'S THE SAME CONCEPT! The anonymity, usefulness and "free"ness of cash. The only fees are in the exchange (ie, cash).

I'm sure the early adopters had a chance to become "richer" than people coming in late. That is the nature of it. However, if that was the case the currency would have no value because no one would want it.

Just like the currencies we use every day, it has value because people believe it does. We left the gold standard behind decades ago. The stock market relies on scarcity and belief. This is the same principle.

This is VERY interesting to me and I am really glad I discovered this thread. I am truly fascinated in its implementation and future.

But I also don't get the fractions of coins.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:01 AM   #152
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I think fractions of bitcoins are handled by who possesses the bitcoins. So if 100 people possess one bitcoin, they all have 0.01 BTC and this is represented in the data blocks. Anyone?
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:09 AM   #153
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the only real currency is 0days
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:22 AM   #154
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I FOUND A FAQ! hey everyone, I found a FAQ!!!

FAQ
FAQ
FAQ
FAQ
<punched in the face>


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths


21 million coins isn't enough, doesn't scale
There are really 2,099,999,997,690,000 (just over 2 quadrillion) maximum possible atomic units in the bitcoin design.

The value of "1 BTC" represents 100,000,000 of these. In other words, each is divisible by up to 10^8.

As the value of the unit of 1 BTC grows too large to be useful for day to day transactions, people can start dealing in smaller units, such as milli-bitcoins (mBTC) or micro-bitcoins (μBTC).

tada!

-*
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:59 AM   #155
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This is VERY interesting to me and I am really glad I discovered this thread. I am truly fascinated in its implementation and future.

But I also don't get the fractions of coins.
Sweet, I'm glad you like it. It's definitely one of the most interesting money systems I've ever seen. I think parts of it are very contentious: this is the only money system ever invented which will test the theory of "deflation = bad for transactions". There is a huge element of libertarianism that goes along with Bitcoins, which makes me uneasy. However, the underlying math is sound, and it's had nearly 2 years of being deployed in the wild. There are a lot of knowledgeable people who have looked at the code, and there are only 2 known attack vectors, both of which are very difficult to pull off in practice.

The best source of information really is Satoshi Nakamoto's original paper, which you can find on the Wiki. If you understand CS or information theory, it has all the details.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:03 AM   #156
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"Gold isn't backed by anything either"
Actually gold is backed by everything.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:52 PM   #157
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after reading through this thread, thanks for convincing my assumptions that this whole bitcoin thing will fail.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:30 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Protege Menace View Post
This thread isn't complete until MKS blows his chartload over it.
guess I missed this thread.







bitcoin users via google maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https:...ts/bitcoin.kml
http://i.imgur.com/x8gsC.jpg

Also, check out this site:
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #159
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So, I can spend my BitCoins at a handfull of international stores! Nice!
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:17 PM   #160
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Some issues I've seen with this whole thing, from my limited research:

1. If you park more than 10k and attempt to make a trade, you will likely move the market by 10% (see bid/ask chart on https://mtgox.com/trade/history)
2. Getting your money out isn't trivial. It's a multi-step process if you want cash.
3. Fees will be over 5% of the transaction.


That said, the currency has risen from USD$0.06/bitcoin to USD$9.00/bitcoin in 9 months, or an increase of 14,900%.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:21 PM   #161
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Yeah, but that rate will not sustain forever. You'll burn the $9 in electricity mining the bitcoins.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:47 PM   #162
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The current exchange rate is ฿1 = $8.40.

No thanks.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:04 PM   #163
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Any currency is only as good as whatever is backing it. Currency is actually an IOU. When you want to "cash-out" you can take to whoever is backing it and they will give you whatever they owe you. Most currency traders like to fall back on the $US because the American economy is the largest in the world and therefore if it fails it will take most of the rest of the world with it in which case nothing will be safe (cue gold-is-God people). Through-out history banks and in some cases stores have issued their own currencies. These have generally been looked on with great suspicion because bank and corporations can go belly up at ant time leaving the holders of their currency (e.g. IOU's) out of luck.

This Bitcoin thing doesn't seem to have any backing what-so-ever. What is sustaining it right now is the fact that some people find the concept "cool" and want to be part of it. As long as more and more people sign up for it it will keep growing in "value". Eventually however people will get bored with it and try to cash-out. Once some people start to cash-out other people will get nervous about their investment and they will try to cash-out too. That will lead to a run and very quickly Bitcoins will become worthless because NO ONE has promised to cover their value in all cases. Once the crash starts NO ONE will buy them. Whoever doesn't cash-out in the first few hours of the inevitable crash will be stuck holding worthless digital "credit".

The biggest fools are the stores that except Bitcoins . . . that is assuming they are legitimate stores giving you an actual product.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:20 PM   #164
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What is the Bitcoin-Beenz exchange rate? Flooz?
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:25 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl
Any currency is only as good as whatever is backing it. Currency is actually an IOU. When you want to "cash-out" you can take to whoever is backing it and they will give you whatever they owe you. Most currency traders like to fall back on the $US because the American economy is the largest in the world and therefore if it fails it will take most of the rest of the world with it in which case nothing will be safe (cue gold-is-God people). Through-out history banks and in some cases stores have issued their own currencies. These have generally been looked on with great suspicion because bank and corporations can go belly up at ant time leaving the holders of their currency (e.g. IOU's) out of luck.

This Bitcoin thing doesn't seem to have any backing what-so-ever. What is sustaining it right now is the fact that some people find the concept "cool" and want to be part of it. As long as more and more people sign up for it it will keep growing in "value". Eventually however people will get bored with it and try to cash-out. Once some people start to cash-out other people will get nervous about their investment and they will try to cash-out too. That will lead to a run and very quickly Bitcoins will become worthless because NO ONE has promised to cover their value in all cases. Once the crash starts NO ONE will buy them. Whoever doesn't cash-out in the first few hours of the inevitable crash will be stuck holding worthless digital "credit".

The biggest fools are the stores that except Bitcoins . . . that is assuming they are legitimate stores giving you an actual product.
Ding ding ding.
Its a pyramid scheme.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:17 PM   #166
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Quote:
Making small talk with your pot dealer sucks. Buying cocaine can get you shot. What if you could buy and sell drugs online like books or light bulbs? Now you can: Welcome to Silk Road.

About three weeks ago, the U.S. Postal Service delivered an ordinary envelope to Mark's door. Inside was a tiny plastic bag containing 10 tabs of LSD. "If you had opened it, unless you were looking for it, you wouldn't have even noticed," Mark told us in a phone interview.

Mark, a software developer, had ordered the 100 micrograms of acid through a listing on the online marketplace Silk Road. He found a seller with lots of good feedback who seemed to know what they were talking about, added the acid to his digital shopping cart and hit "check out." He entered his address and paid the seller 50 Bitcoins—untraceable digital currency—worth around $150. Four days later the drugs, sent from Canada, arrived at his house.

"It kind of felt like I was in the future," Mark said.

Silk Road, a digital black market that sits just below most internet users' purview, does resemble something from a cyberpunk novel. Through a combination of anonymity technology and a sophisticated user-feedback system, Silk Road makes buying and selling illegal drugs as easy as buying used electronics—and seemingly as safe. It's Amazon—if Amazon sold mind-altering chemicals.

Here is just a small selection of the 340 items available for purchase on Silk Road by anyone, right now: a gram of Afghani hash; 1/8th ounce of "sour 13" weed; 14 grams of ecstasy; .1 grams tar heroin. A listing for "Avatar" LSD includes a picture of blotter paper with big blue faces from the James Cameron movie on it. The sellers are located all over the world, a large portion from the U.S. and Canada.

But even Silk Road has limits: You won't find any weapons-grade plutonium, for example. Its terms of service ban the sale of "anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction."

Getting to Silk Road is tricky. The URL seems made to be forgotten. But don't point your browser there yet. It's only accessible through the anonymizing network TOR, which requires a bit of technical skill to configure.

Once you're there, it's hard to believe that Silk Road isn't simply a scam. Such brazenness is usually displayed only by those fake "online pharmacies" that dupe the dumb and flaccid. There's no sly, Craigslist-style code names here. But while scammers do use the site, most of the listings are legit. Mark's acid worked as advertised. "It was quite enjoyable, to be honest," he said. We spoke to one Connecticut engineer who enjoyed sampling some "silver haze" pot purchased off Silk Road. "It was legit," he said. "It was better than anything I've seen."

Silk Road cuts down on scams with a reputation-based trading system familiar to anyone who's used Amazon or eBay. The user Bloomingcolor appears to be an especially trusted vendor, specializing in psychedelics. One happy customer wrote on his profile: "Excellent quality. Packing, and communication. Arrived exactly as described." They gave the transaction five points out of five.

"Our community is amazing," Silk Road's anonymous administrator, known on forums as "Silk Road," told us in an email. "They are generally bright, honest and fair people, very understanding, and willing to cooperate with each other."

Sellers feel comfortable openly selling hardcore drugs because the real identities of those involved in Silk Road transactions are utterly obscured. If the authorities wanted to ID Silk Road's users with computer forensics, they'd have nowhere to look. TOR masks a user's tracks on the site. As for transactions, Silk Road doesn't accept credit cards, PayPal , or any other form of payment that can be traced or blocked. The only money good here is Bitcoins.

Bitcoins have been called a "crypto-currency," the online equivalent of a brown paper bag of cash. Bitcoins are a peer-to-peer currency, not issued by banks or governments, but created and regulated by a network of other bitcoin holders' computers. (The name "Bitcoin" is derived from the pioneering file-sharing technology Bittorrent.) They are purportedly untraceable and have been championed by cyberpunks, libertarians and anarchists who dream of a distributed digital economy outside the law, one where money flows across borders as free as bits.

To purchase something on Silk Road, you need first to buy some Bitcoins using a service like Mt. Gox Bitcoin Exchange. Then, create an account on Silk Road, deposit some bitcoins, and start buying drugs. One bitcoin is worth about $8.67, though the exchange rate fluctuates wildly every day. Right now you can buy an 1/8th of pot on Silk Road for 7.63 Bitcoins. That's probably more than you would pay on the street, but most Silk Road users seem happy to pay a premium for convenience.

Since it launched this February, Silk Road has represented the most complete implementation of the Bitcoin vision. Many of its users come from Bitcoin's utopian geek community and see Silk Road as more than just a pace to buy drugs. Silk Road's administrator cites the anarcho-libertarian philosophy of Agorism. "The state is the primary source of violence, oppression, theft and all forms of coercion," Silk Road wrote to us. "Stop funding the state with your tax dollars and direct your productive energies into the black market."

Mark, the LSD buyer, had similar views. "I'm a libertarian anarchists and I believe that anything that's not violent should not be criminalized," he said.

But not all Bitcoin enthusiasts embrace Silk Road. Some think the association with drugs will tarnish the young technology, or might draw the attention of federal authorities. "The real story with Silk Road is the quantity of people anxious to escape a centralized currency and trade," a longtime bitcoin user named Maiya told us in a chat. "Some of us view Bitcoin as a real currency, not drug barter tokens."

Silk Road and Bitcoins could herald a black market eCommerce revolution. But anonymity cuts both ways. How long until a DEA agent sets up a fake Silk Road account and starts sending SWAT teams instead of LSD to the addresses she gets? As Silk Road inevitably spills out of the bitcoin bubble, its drug-swapping utopians will meet a harsh reality no anonymizing network can blur.
http://m.gawker.com/5807416/the-unde...rug-imaginable
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:29 PM   #167
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There are also sites on TOR that will deliver or drop the product at a GPS location, I find it pretty amusing.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:40 PM   #168
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At this rate, folks who converts bit coins back to 'real' money are going to be arrested for money laundering.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:54 PM   #169
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Well I guess I know what site to check to tonight on my tor network
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:56 PM   #170
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Man...tor is looking cooler and cooler.

Not that...I...uh...need...

okay, i've said too much.

-*
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:31 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNick View Post
Well I guess I know what site to check to tonight on my tor network
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Child View Post
Man...tor is looking cooler and cooler.

Not that...I...uh...need...

okay, i've said too much.

-*


*plans on firing up TOR for the first time in half a decade tonight*
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:58 PM   #172
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I was just searching for this on here. Weird...

Soooooo, anybody buy any coke yet?
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:24 PM   #173
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I would like 3 Jeffrey's please. Anyone down for a group buy?
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:25 PM   #174
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so I'm a bit amazed at whats for sale and the pricing of the products on that TOR site....
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:30 PM   #175
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so I'm a bit amazed at whats for sale and the pricing of the products on that TOR site....
Screen shot and post the picture. I'm curious.
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