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Old 02-17-2019, 03:43 PM   #1
Nrbeal12
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Default Cannot decide, Type R, STI or WRX?

Drove all three:

Takeaways:

Type R: way more advanced, rev matching, some Siri like thing talking to me while in the car, push button parking brake... blah blah blah, car drives like a dream, but seemed just a little too refined for me and is of course fwd despite not feeling like it.

STI: raw (good thing), huge wing, AWD, rally sports car feel and a great aftermarket... problems is the old engine, which while tried and proven, I wonder if Subaru will finally update the engine for 2021 and put something newer in it.

WRX: great fuel economy, AWD, linear torque curve but not any fun after 5500 rpm, huge aftermarket and an updated engine with decent fuel economy... but itís not an STI :-(

So, I want to buy a DD, that can handle spirited driving, some aftermarket mods, and can be something actually fun to drive during my commute to work. I would love to autox the car but question actually autoxing a daily.

I am desperate to make a decision soon, but wouldnít mind waiting another year or so if the new STI will come with updates that would make it a more powerful and usable DD.

Any help is appreciated, I have finally narrowed my car search down to the 3 listed.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:48 PM   #2
19STIIA
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I can try to provide insight to a similar decision I was faced with. I decided between the Golf R, Evo and STI about 3 years ago. My heart new I wanted the STI after driving all of them but I got an absolute killer deal on a fully loaded golf R that I think was just SLIGHTLY less of a pleasure to drive at first. So I bought the golf and didn't really do too many mods but always felt the desire that it didn't give me the feeling of being in control. It was more of a luxurious hatch with some balls. In November of last year I stumbled upon a dealership doing $7000 off a 2019 STI with the recaro and keyless package and was the exact color I was looking for. After a down pipe , cat back, e tune, intake and various little mods I wouldn't get rid of this car. You hear the STI rides rough which I think is over exaggerated because if is a fine daily and gives you a raw taste of the road but isn't unbearable. I think the STI is the perfect blend of refinement, rawness, and practicality. If you plan on waiting for 2021 I would sit out at least a year for the STI if it has a new motor just for them to fix bugs. I love the EJ. Tried and true, sounds great and is a great motor if you're not looking to make 500+ hp and don't beat the ever loving **** out of it.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:38 PM   #3
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Drive whatever tickles your fancy. As soon as you buy a car there's always a newer model that will be better than the one you bought.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:01 PM   #4
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the type r is a great car but still fwd. What I like about AWD cars is that they put the power down in all conditions. I would take my Evo 8 out for a drive right after it stopped raining as it is so much fun as in a fwd not so much in those conditions .
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:26 PM   #5
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I would personally get the CTR but this is something to consider:

"The Type R drives its 295 pound-feet of torque through a helical limited-slip differential and Continental SportContact 6 summer tires that deliver dogged traction at a price. Replacements cost $321 each and the Type Rís window sticker warns that they may wear out in less than 10,000 miles."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

Wheel/tire insurance is probably a must.

The STI is also a great choice. They made bunch of changes for 2019 and my only complaint was the fuel economy. Tried and true.

If you want to save a ton of money, you can probably pick up a base WRX for around 26-27K. AP and a nice pro-tune will take care of the wacky power dip at 5.5K RPM. A DP and some E30 magic will REALLY wake it up but that is as far as I would feel comfortable pushing it power wise for a DD.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:32 PM   #6
JWA2008LGT
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Type R is a great car (in writing, Iíve never driven one). New WRX, I love it. Iíve heard the new FA24 will be replacing the EJ and outback motors. The FA20 gets great mileage and the WRX is a great DD, IMO.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:55 PM   #7
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I'd wait on the type R and see how the transmissions hold up over the next few years.... have driven them a few times. I'd rather an sti, and the 08+ has improved suspension geometry. I swapped an 11 6mt trans and diff into my 95 and even with the inconsistent 3rd shift, I prefer it over the civic fwd setup. You will also be frequently replacing tires on the type R, even with the wide size they don't last because of the fwd. Also NOT a cheap tire with the size they use. You can swap wheels to have cheaper tires, but the suspension is designed for that specific wheel/tire size and weight. Definitely a a quick car, and handles great, but yeah that fwd and trans thing.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:47 AM   #8
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I wouldnt kick out the CTR for being FWD

Incoming magazine racing article:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hond...ra-comparison/

CN: CTR beat out the competition in their tests. Real world, with the CTR you probably wont miss the AWD, unless you put crappy tires on it.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:16 AM   #9
SirBrass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nrbeal12 View Post
So, I want to buy a DD, that can handle spirited driving, some aftermarket mods, and can be something actually fun to drive during my commute to work. I would love to autox the car but question actually autoxing a daily.
You basically described what the WRX is best at: A comfortable, spirited daily that is fun to drive and a great commuter as well.

I'd get frustrated with automatic rev match in the Type R. I do my own rev matching and waiting for a car to do it on its own would be frustrating as hell.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #10
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For daily driving duty I drive my WRX Limited with the Harman Kardon stereo. I really love how the car drives and NEVER had issue with grip even through fast turns, the vectoring software does a phenominal job rotating the car. And I only run DWS06 all season tires in the winter (my area hit by -25F last month).

I think this is by far the most fun and capable MT daily drivers out there. With a few mods this car can easily do double duty as a weekend fun car as well.

Of course if I was limited to only owning one car I'd get the STI, but fortunately I'm not so..

FWD+ high torque is fine on dry and warm pavement on a road course where you don't stop, but in rain and cold surfaces (especially in snow) in real world, meh.. no thanks. Auto-blip is for people who don't know how to drive MT cars.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:27 AM   #11
bdubblu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
You basically described what the WRX is best at: A comfortable, spirited daily that is fun to drive and a great commuter as well.

I'd get frustrated with automatic rev match in the Type R. I do my own rev matching and waiting for a car to do it on its own would be frustrating as hell.
Most cars released in the past several years with performance oriented automatics have very fast shifting and matching. Of what I've driven in the past 4-5 years, lets say, I've been repeatedly impressed.
Edit: not been in a CTR, but I imagine that they've got it dialed in pretty sharp and tight.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:39 PM   #12
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If you like a raw driving experience the stiffer suspension, better braking, and transmission of the STI would be a good choice for you. That being said, it really depends on what your goals are for the car i.e. Weekend track car? Daily Driver? modding to gain power?

Help me help you and I can give you my $.02

Currently I own a 2011 WRX Hatch.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:52 AM   #13
Exit 37
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I've never driven a CTR, but having driven 2 of the 3 cars you listed, either one of them would prove fun to drive on a daily commute, so long as you don't drive like an ******* or like you're at Streets of Willow. They all have aftermarket support, they can all be daily driven, and you can kill cones in all three. You're also asking on NASIOC, so naturally, you'll get the Subaru recommendations.

Reason not to get a Subaru:
-Spark plug jobs suck if you have large+ hands
-sensitive drivetrain
-timing belt (EJ motor)

Reasons not to get a CTR (personal opinion):
-boy racer as hell (more than a STI)
-Civic stigma despite Honda reliability
-FWD
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:39 AM   #14
SirBrass
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drivetrain is only sensitive if you beat the living hell out of it, and that's not an issue if you have an STI, which can take one helluva beating.

OP, if you can afford a Type R, you can afford an STI, which is even more raw than the WRX. The only question is do you want to wait till the new STI generation comes out with the 2.4L DIT and twin scroll, or go with the old EJ engine and single scroll turbo. New gen probably is going to have quite a bit more power, but we don't know what transmissions they're going to offer with it. Hopefully still the old reliable STI 6MT with DCCD, but we don't know.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:46 AM   #15
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I would go with the STI if it's in your budget and you don't mind the worse gas mileage.

The WRX, especially the base model, is a fantastic bargain for the price. I had the mentality of "the new engine is better".. and it is. It responds to mods really well and has great fuel economy for a daily driver. This is how I convinced myself to buy a WRX.

But I much prefer the driving feel and experience of the STI... the drivetrain (shifter, transmission, diff control, LSD, etc.), the boxer rumble from the UEL header, the more direct hydraulic power steering, the great brake feel from the Brembo brakes, and so on.

I often find myself missing these little things in the WRX. You can certainly replicate some of this in the WRX, but it will require a significant amount of money and you'll end up spending just as much as you would have on the STI and your car will still be worth less.

The next gen STI with the FA24 will certainly be faster and more fuel efficient than the current gen EJ257. The global platform will probably be stiffer, handle better, and have more creature comforts. But I expect it to also feel more numb. There will (likely) be an EL header for a twin scroll turbo, which means losing the boxer rumble (like the WRX), and the hydraulic power steering will be swapped for electric. You also probably wouldn't want to buy the first model year or two of the next gen STI until all of the kinks are worked out.

Just my 2 cents..
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:55 AM   #16
SirBrass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I would go with the STI if it's in your budget and you don't mind the worse gas mileage.

The WRX, especially the base model, is a fantastic bargain for the price. I had the mentality of "the new engine is better".. and it is. It responds to mods really well and has great fuel economy for a daily driver. This is how I convinced myself to buy a WRX.

But I much prefer the driving feel and experience of the STI... the drivetrain (shifter, transmission, diff control, LSD, etc.), the boxer rumble from the UEL header, the more direct hydraulic power steering, the great brake feel from the Brembo brakes, and so on.

I often find myself missing these little things in the WRX. You can certainly replicate some of this in the WRX, but it will require a significant amount of money and you'll end up spending just as much as you would have on the STI and your car will still be worth less.

The next gen STI with the FA24 will certainly be faster and more fuel efficient than the current gen EJ257. The global platform will probably be stiffer, handle better, and have more creature comforts. But I expect it to also feel more numb. There will (likely) be an EL header for a twin scroll turbo, which means losing the boxer rumble (like the WRX), and the hydraulic power steering will be swapped for electric. You also probably wouldn't want to buy the first model year or two of the next gen STI until all of the kinks are worked out.

Just my 2 cents..
Anyone who has owned a BRZ knows that just b/c it's electric power steering doesn't mean it feels "numb" in any sense whatsoever. That's completely up to subaru. I've felt very numb hydraulic power steering and very direct electric power steering.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:05 PM   #17
rtv900
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boy I hope one day somebody just announces the 2020 STI engine already
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:13 PM   #18
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CTR and I wouldn't even think twice about it.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:17 PM   #19
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
Anyone who has owned a BRZ knows that just b/c it's electric power steering doesn't mean it feels "numb" in any sense whatsoever. That's completely up to subaru. I've felt very numb hydraulic power steering and very direct electric power steering.
I'm not saying that all electric power steering is bad. I've owned a BRZ and S2000 in the past, both of which have great steering feel with EPS. Both of those are also lightweight, RWD sports cars with close to 50/50 weight distribution. The BRZ and S2000 have 13.1:1 and 13.8:1 steering ratios, respectively.

I should correct my previous statement.. "Steering feel" is a very broad term and includes steering response, directness, feedback, etc.

I personally prefer the more tactile feedback from hydraulic power steering. I would guess that EPS would have less feedback than an equivalent hydraulic unit given a similar steering ratio, chassis/suspension design, wheel/tire size & weight, tire compound, weight distribution, etc.

There are quite a few things that contribute to the improved "steering feel" of the STI in comparison to the WRX. The WRX has EPS with a slower steering ratio of 14.5:1 (less response) and the rubber steering dampener designed to reduce road feedback (and directness). In comparison, the STI has hydraulic PS, a quicker 13:1 steering ratio, and a solid steering linkage with no dampener. The STI's suspension and wheel/tire setup will also contribute to the steering feel.

I'm sure the next gen STI's EPS steering feel will still be great as long as it maintains a quick ratio and doesn't have a steering dampener. It'll be interesting to compare it to the current generation's hydraulic steering.

Maybe I'm just getting old and miss the "good ole days" with the cars from the late 90s & early 2000s...
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:42 PM   #20
SirBrass
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The current model year wrx's don't have any rubbery feeling steering dampener. I think that was 2015's and 16's that had the rubber dampener.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:01 PM   #21
WRXnick16
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I really enjoyed Savageese's review of the STI Type RA on youtube.


Skip to ~14:30 for his driving impressions. Most of these will also relate to the STI non-RA.

He mentions that his favorite part of the STI is the "old school connected feel" in comparison to most modern cars.

Pros:
  1. Feedback from the hydraulic power steering
  2. Directness of the shifter (rod-based shifter vs cable-shifted)
  3. Heaviness of the clutch
  4. Manual parking brake
He prefers the STI over the Civic Type R & Focus RS despite it being the slowest of the three. It doesn't have best chassis, grip, technology or interior/features.. But it offers the best driving experience with its connected-ness to the driver.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:03 PM   #22
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
The current model year wrx's don't have any rubbery feeling steering dampener. I think that was 2015's and 16's that had the rubber dampener.
Thanks! I was unaware of that and will look up the new part number. I would prefer to swap it out on my 2016 WRX rather than use the Perrin steering dampener lockdown.

Update: It looks like the newer models (at least through 2018) still have the rubber dampener. The part # for the solid STI steering joint is 34170VA030, but I've read that it's interchangeable.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 02-19-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:38 PM   #23
oichan
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The STI's steering is kind of on the rubbery side but it does have good feedback.

But then the WRX's steering is buttery smooth, I like them both. It takes much less effort to steer the car in the trajectory you want so that is a good thing about electric steering. On the STI, the car tries to fight me over rough roads while I'm making a turn.. it's got that fun rawness, but some folks might prefer the smoother WRX steering.

I'm not against electric steering even though I am old school.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:49 PM   #24
samb
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Go drive them and buy the one you like the most. I mean that's pretty much all it comes down to, I'm not sure what you think we'll tell you here that you can't go watch a youtube video and find out.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:17 PM   #25
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The other thing to consider is which is more likely to get stolen. Not sure how it is where you are but in some parts of the north east if you leave your type r out n the streets overnight it might not be there when you get back. Honda boys tend to want to part out your car for you lol.

I am not a huge fan of the type r styling so I would say sti.
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