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Old 02-21-2019, 05:53 AM   #1
Cyanide7
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WR blue

Default 05-07 sti vs 05-07 wrx axles/suspension

|---5MT---| <- wrx front/rear wheel to wheel
vs:
|----6MT----| <- sti front/rear wheel to wheel

I'm trying to compare the two to understand how it affects the geometry of the suspension of 05-07 sti's vs 05-07 wrx's if I were to swap my 2005 wrx to a sti suspension/rotors/axles. The wheel to wheel are just a tad wider I believe due to the wider 6MT up front and the R180 in the back and the axle length is the same, but different due to more splines using different hubs and mating to the 6MT and R180.
So if I wanted to upgrade my 2005 wrx to a 5x114 rotor/hub/knuckle assembly, but keep my 5MT I would need longer custom axles in the front that mate to a 5MT and 5x114 front rotor/hub/knuckle assembly?
(I am doing an R180 in the rear as well so I should be able to use sti axles with rear 5x114 rotor/hub/knuckle assembly's)

|----5MT----| <- wrx front/rear wheel to wheel [custom length front axles]
vs:
|----6MT----| <- sti front/rear wheel to wheel
(Now even)

Also on the note that I would be keeping the 5MT when would I have too much power to exceed the inner spline strength of the transmission?
(Not that I ever would probably, but I am curious if its the same as a 6 speed)

Are JDM sti axles any different than the sti length or strength wise?

Would I need any other subframe components like control arms, steering rack, tie rods, transverse links, rear trailing arms, lateral links, brake lines, rear diff crossmember piece or front subframe piece?

Sorry about writing a novel, I appreciate you reading everything. Thanks
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:01 AM   #2
JarHarms
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Default

So you are requesting a WRX to STI wheel base comparison, yes?
They are indeed different but I doubt that info is going to get you what you are looking for. Even a WRX to STI track width comparison (also different) is not going to help much. All of those dims involve more than just the axle/trans/etc parts you are interested in. You mentioned STI rotors, which will drag in brake changes from your WRX as well It can be a bit daunting to sift through the few 6MT swap threads already posted. Doing so would really be your best investment for this sort of project undertaking. There are no custom axles required for these changes BTW, it can be done with OEM axles.

What is the key conversion you are going for here (and why)? The STI's larger front/rear wheel bearings? STI brakes? The 5x114.3 bcd wheel pattern? A 6MT swap? Something else? STI all of the things? Respectfully.....you are sort of all over the place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide7 View Post
|---5MT---| <- wrx front/rear wheel to wheel
vs:
|----6MT----| <- sti front/rear wheel to wheel

I'm trying to compare the two to understand how it affects the geometry of the suspension of 05-07 sti's vs 05-07 wrx's if I were to swap my 2005 wrx to a sti suspension/rotors/axles. The wheel to wheel are just a tad wider I believe due to the wider 6MT up front and the R180 in the back and the axle length is the same, but different due to more splines using different hubs and mating to the 6MT and R180.
So if I wanted to upgrade my 2005 wrx to a 5x114 rotor/hub/knuckle assembly, but keep my 5MT I would need longer custom axles in the front that mate to a 5MT and 5x114 front rotor/hub/knuckle assembly?
(I am doing an R180 in the rear as well so I should be able to use sti axles with rear 5x114 rotor/hub/knuckle assembly's)

|----5MT----| <- wrx front/rear wheel to wheel [custom length front axles]
vs:
|----6MT----| <- sti front/rear wheel to wheel
(Now even)...

The 5MT weakness you are thinking about is not really an input spline issue, it is a gear strength issue. You will need to be mindful of your engine HP/TQ rating and how you operate the car.
The 6MT has relatively stronger gearsets than the 5MT. The 6MT is not always the best option depending on how you use the car.
"JDM axles" is a bit general, but I am assuming you mean GDBappliedE/F/G from the similar MY and vehicle trims, they will essentially have the same length and durability.
Other 6MT swap related parts.....see comment above about reviewing through the 6MT swap threads. There are many ways to go about this, you will have to pick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide7 View Post
...
Also on the note that I would be keeping the 5MT when would I have too much power to exceed the inner spline strength of the transmission?
(Not that I ever would probably, but I am curious if its the same as a 6 speed)
Are JDM sti axles any different than the sti length or strength wise?
Would I need any other subframe components like control arms, steering rack, tie rods, transverse links, rear trailing arms, lateral links, brake lines, rear diff crossmember piece or front subframe piece?...

Last edited by JarHarms; 02-21-2019 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:56 PM   #3
jamal
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Default

02-07 impreza, wrx sedan and the sti are all essentially the same width. The 05-07 sti rear lateral links are just very slightly longer but it doesn't require any changes to the axles. Listed track width differences between, say, and 04 wrx and 04 sti are just because of the different wheels and tires.

The front axles are interchangeable, length is not an issue between sedans and the diameter of the shafts is the same. Lengths in the FSM are different but that is not the overall length and is due to differences in the boots and joints.

So, for the front, you can use either axle with any combination of transmission or hubS as they have the right inner cvs. One thing you will have to worry about are the abs tone rings, which are in a slightly different place between the two. if you want to use wrx axles with 5x114 sti hubs you'll need to pull it off the end of the cv and stick a spacer behind it.

The rear is where things are different, on both the inner and outer, with the sti axle using larger parts. I don't know if there is a way to use sti hubs with an r160, the hybrid axle thing is to go the other way.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:13 PM   #4
Cyanide7
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WR blue

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Sorry maybe I should have posted some more info, but yeah I'm trying to figure out my build and what is best so I definitely am a bit jumbled, sorry. Might as well just post my plan maybe this will help. I can post all of the parts that I am going to use as well if that will help, it is a long list so let me know.

Goal ~300AWHP on E85 max PSI 18 or less


Type of racing:
Circuit/time attack
Possibly an occasional drag race/roll racing
I would still like to keep this as my DD as well.

I would like to get a full breembo setup on my wrx switching to 5x114 because they wear the tires less as I was told, but I'm not sure if that's right or not that's why I was wondering about the sti geometry. I'm also thinking of changing out my wrx to the sti suspension if that is the best path, it may not be cost effective though. Also I believe it distorts the handling/strut travel as the car was meant to run a bit smaller, but is it a large enough issue to warrant swapping over an sti subframe? Just want to get some input.
I'm pretty sure there are 5100 breembo setups (like the 04 STI,but I haven't been able to find them for sale yet). I did find some nice 4pot 2pot setups (hubs, calipers, rotors, caliper back plate) from a few different JDM importers, they come with what looks like better lateral links, rear trailing arm, tie rods, control arms and better bushings all around (better them mine currently at least, they are due to be replaced). I'm gonna leave the engine itself stock for now until I get another fun backup vehicle.
As far as the JDM axles I was referring to GD revF or GD revG. I am just going to do the hybrid axle for the rear for now, I found it odd when the importer I messaged was saying $350 for a rear pair and I was finding prices for a USDM rear pair around $200. I thought that sti front axles had more splines, good to know they are interchangeable. Thanks for clearing up some of my questions.
I'm keeping the 5MT though I don't want the six speed yet I want to see what I can do with a 5 speed first and experiment with different gearing/FD ratios (yes I know a different FD requires a front and rear pinion swap and with my car 1:1 stepper gears). I would absolutely love to do some sort of rally racing, but I don't have the money or know anyone that does it yet.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:29 PM   #5
jamal
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide7 View Post
I would like to get a full breembo setup on my wrx switching to 5x114 because they wear the tires less as I was told, but I'm not sure if that's right or not that's why I was wondering about the sti geometry. I'm also thinking of changing out my wrx to the sti suspension if that is the best path, it may not be cost effective though. Also I believe it distorts the handling/strut travel as the car was meant to run a bit smaller, but is it a large enough issue to warrant swapping over an sti subframe? Just want to get some input.
I don't really understand what this is supposed to mean. Could you maybe try re-writing it a little more clearly?


And like I said, hybrid axles are to use an R180 with wrx hubs, they do not work they other way around. As far as I know there is not an axle to do that and if you want to use sti rear hubs you need an R180.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:43 PM   #6
pazzoduc
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sorta black-ish

Default

This is what you need:


I am currently doing the same thing, and found buying the FULL pallet of parts was a MUCH better deal than buying some parts and trying to cobb it all together.

You also need to decide if you want to go DCCD or not.

Some full kits here: https://jspecauto.com/en/subaru/tran...transmissions/
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:49 PM   #7
pazzoduc
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sorta black-ish

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Transmission information is here. Make sure you know the trans code to know what you are getting.

http://www.spec-c.com/what-model-is-my-impreza/
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:59 PM   #8
pazzoduc
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sorta black-ish

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If you really do want to keep the 5MT you might consider these:

https://getmoorepower.com/blastplates/

Search hard enough and you will find a used set in the classifieds.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #9
Cyanide7
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2005 Impreza WRX SED
WR blue

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Hey sorry I'm starting to confuse myself, maybe I'm asking the wrong question.

Does the fact that it uses a 5x114 hub make the suspension sit more optimally?

What's the advantage besides running bigger rotors/brakes/upgraded subframe?
(which you can still run breembos on a wrx w/o sti hubs, I can get stiffer suspension on my wrx, I can get hybrid axles to use a r180, why should one upgrade to sti hubs at all? Just the increased strength in the rear hubs? The bigger tire size? Or does it change the suspension to sit better, therefore improving handling and grip) Did STI just say "hey lets make it a bigger hub to fit bigger wheels and stronger rear axles"

I'm trying to see why I should upgrade to nearly the whole sti subframe. What advantage in relation to the subframe/suspension GEOMETRY (NOT THE COMPONENTS like stronger lateral links, stiffer springs, thicker trailing arms, ect.) Of my 05 wrx vs say a 05 sti is there?

I do have a bit of a hard time explaining, thanks for your patience. I hope this explains it, if not I'll try again.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:45 PM   #10
Cyanide7
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2005 Impreza WRX SED
WR blue

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Thanks for those post pazzoduc as well that's some go info, didn't know about the blast plates.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:03 AM   #11
jamal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide7 View Post
Hey sorry I'm starting to confuse myself, maybe I'm asking the wrong question.

Does the fact that it uses a 5x114 hub make the suspension sit more optimally?

What's the advantage besides running bigger rotors/brakes/upgraded subframe?
(which you can still run breembos on a wrx w/o sti hubs, I can get stiffer suspension on my wrx, I can get hybrid axles to use a r180, why should one upgrade to sti hubs at all? Just the increased strength in the rear hubs? The bigger tire size? Or does it change the suspension to sit better, therefore improving handling and grip) Did STI just say "hey lets make it a bigger hub to fit bigger wheels and stronger rear axles"

I'm trying to see why I should upgrade to nearly the whole sti subframe. What advantage in relation to the subframe/suspension GEOMETRY (NOT THE COMPONENTS like stronger lateral links, stiffer springs, thicker trailing arms, ect.) Of my 05 wrx vs say a 05 sti is there?

I do have a bit of a hard time explaining, thanks for your patience. I hope this explains it, if not I'll try again.
What you get with the 5x114 hubs are larger and stronger wheel bearings. These larger bearings even bolt into the front uprights to make bearing changes much easier on, say, a track car that needs them replaced on a regular basis.

As far as brakes and suspension and axles go there isn't really a benefit. It's solely for the bearings. And I suppose there are more wheel options when it comes to larger and wider stuff.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:15 PM   #12
Cyanide7
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Join Date: Jun 2018
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2005 Impreza WRX SED
WR blue

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
What you get with the 5x114 hubs are larger and stronger wheel bearings. These larger bearings even bolt into the front uprights to make bearing changes much easier on, say, a track car that needs them replaced on a regular basis.

As far as brakes and suspension and axles go there isn't really a benefit. It's solely for the bearings. And I suppose there are more wheel options when it comes to larger and wider stuff.
Got it! That helps alot, I will probably hold off on upgrading to the hubs for a year or so and just do upgraded springs using either usdm sti springs or Tein H-Tech Springs with my struts for now.
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:20 AM   #13
Dave1513
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Default 05-07 sti vs wrx

I have a 05 wrx that I recently did a 07 sti 6 speed swap too. Everyone said my wrx axels would fit, they were too short
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