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Old 06-13-2013, 05:06 PM   #301
reid-o
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I think the engineering obstacle that this solves is the divider which is the hardest to fabricate and first to fail. It likely runs hotter than the outside walls, and eliminating welds that fail is a good thing. Last is that keeping the runners uniform is difficult.

Welding on a flange and keeping the air gap correct for thermal expansion shouldn't be too hard.
Im pretty sure this is for 44 valve as 38 would be on the small side with the divider in place. Garret has a cast v-band version but without the gate. After seeing their merge collector and then seeing this one, I think it is a mistake on their part to not include the gate.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:14 PM   #302
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The question is whether garrets new t3 divided housings (just released) flow well enough for the gtx3582r, the largest t3 they have, on the top end. The old t3 housings showed poor flow on the exhaust side for the larger turbo. We have been forced to use crappy divided housings for years. I hope that these new t3 housings work out.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #303
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Awesome. It was so cool seeing this setup at WBM. Will totally consider this setup for the beast mode car...
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:04 PM   #304
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I didn't think about the tooling costs associated to make that, and I'd rather weld something on myself for ~free than pay an extra 50 bucks for the weld to be done for me.

Nonetheless I'm really intrigued by these and Reid's comment about the topend.

I'd love one of these on the low mount location with just a little less power up top for my sacrificial lamb.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:10 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
I didn't think about the tooling costs associated to make that, and I'd rather weld something on myself for ~free than pay an extra 50 bucks for the weld to be done for me.

Nonetheless I'm really intrigued by these and Reid's comment about the topend.

I'd love one of these on the low mount location with just a little less power up top for my sacrificial lamb.
Yeah garret has never really supported twinscro setups. There was only .78 t3 and the ATP housings. Some have reported that the t4 divided versions were either too small or too large depending on who you talked to. Either way the options always seemed like huge compromises. Hopefully these new housings work well.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:33 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
The question is whether garrets new t3 divided housings (just released) flow well enough for the gtx3582r, the largest t3 they have, on the top end. The old t3 housings showed poor flow on the exhaust side for the larger turbo. We have been forced to use crappy divided housings for years. I hope that these new t3 housings work out.
There are two pictures of the new Garrett v-band divided turbine housing (largest 1.01 A/R) in this article:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...e46-build.aspx

Bottom of the first page and top of the second.

Considering Mike Essa just won his first ever Formula Drift competition, it seems to be working pretty well.

This article says he's making 750whp:
http://www.autoevolution.com/bmw-blo...deo-57394.html
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
I think the engineering obstacle that this solves is the divider which is the hardest to fabricate and first to fail. It likely runs hotter than the outside walls, and eliminating welds that fail is a good thing. Last is that keeping the runners uniform is difficult.
Your correct. The 'divider' transitions from thick to thinner as it nears the valve face. I've seen some fabricated dividers do some funny thing and that was kept in mind while designing this part. Hopefully, our results are good on that front, assuming the design and material selection has been done correctly

The transition if VERY smooth. This was one of the reasons for going this route. I couldn't stand to see another one of THESE pictures!





Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Im pretty sure this is for 44 valve as 38 would be on the small side with the divider in place. Garret has a cast v-band version but without the gate. After seeing their merge collector and then seeing this one, I think it is a mistake on their part to not include the gate.
This is for a 38mm Tial. Given the results we've seen with the SS with a 38mm (running a GTX35R from 14 to 26psi) I see no reason to use a 44. I just don't see a larger WG needed on this frame size turbo, but time will tell

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
The question is whether garrets new t3 divided housings (just released) flow well enough for the gtx3582r, the largest t3 they have, on the top end. The old t3 housings showed poor flow on the exhaust side for the larger turbo. We have been forced to use crappy divided housings for years. I hope that these new t3 housings work out.
The old turbine housings were designed for diesel technology IIRC, not performance minded auto enthusiasts/nut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJake View Post
Awesome. It was so cool seeing this setup at WBM. Will totally consider this setup for the beast mode car...
Thanks! I've been happy with the results, and the feedback from the tuners has certainly validated the Low Mount design merits. The car is just a blast to drive, and drives exceptionally well just putting around town too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
I didn't think about the tooling costs associated to make that, and I'd rather weld something on myself for ~free than pay an extra 50 bucks for the weld to be done for me.

Nonetheless I'm really intrigued by these and Reid's comment about the topend.

I'd love one of these on the low mount location with just a little less power up top for my sacrificial lamb.
Understood. I think we're going move forward with this on our shop 2012 with the GTX3071-R we ran on the first go around. With Tial's 0.82 housing we saw 400whp with boost stabilizing in the high 3K to low 4K area with power dropping after the OEM redline. The TS setup should provide even better responsiveness low in the revs with an added dose of fuel efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Yeah garret has never really supported twinscro setups. There was only .78 t3 and the ATP housings. Some have reported that the t4 divided versions were either too small or too large depending on who you talked to. Either way the options always seemed like huge compromises. Hopefully these new housings work well.
Garrett has assured me this new housing was designed with performance in mind and they look the part. It will be interesting to see the results.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:42 AM   #308
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I am really loving this Low Mount setup. Just awesome. Have you guys given any thought to a rotated intake. Less intercooler piping. Also, kind of a dumb question but, any way you might design and make some high fowing UEL headers for the setup. Gotta have that rumble
I really like the horsepower numbers and spool time you have with the GTX3071r turbo. That is the turbo i would go with if I was going big turbo. GTX35r is to big for me and too expensive to build the car to that even higher HP number. Keep up the awesome work, you have a new subscriber.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:57 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saabaru300 View Post
I am really loving this Low Mount setup. Just awesome. Have you guys given any thought to a rotated intake. Less intercooler piping. Also, kind of a dumb question but, any way you might design and make some high fowing UEL headers for the setup. Gotta have that rumble
I really like the horsepower numbers and spool time you have with the GTX3071r turbo. That is the turbo i would go with if I was going big turbo. GTX35r is to big for me and too expensive to build the car to that even higher HP number. Keep up the awesome work, you have a new subscriber.
Thanks! The GTX3071-R was a great setup on the street. With the 0.82 housing it was a responsive combination that will get you around the 400whp mark and the 0.63 housing sacrifices 20 or so whp but the throttle response is on/off switch fast.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:20 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Yeah garret has never really supported twinscro setups. There was only .78 t3 and the ATP housings. Some have reported that the t4 divided versions were either too small or too large depending on who you talked to. Either way the options always seemed like huge compromises. Hopefully these new housings work well.
For another reference point on the new Garrett divided turbine housings, this on an Evo IX...

The initial setup was a short-runner manifold using an old T4 flanged, 1.06 A/R divided turbine housing:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...xperiment.html

The new setup is a long runner manifold for the new divided v-band housing in 1.01 A/R:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...xperiment.html
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:30 AM   #311
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please make the cast piece in t4!

somehow that divided vband housing and adapter look super restrictive.

Last edited by azn2nr; 06-17-2013 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:10 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
please make the cast piece in t4!

somehow that divided vband housing and adapter look super restrictive.
We can do T4 if we can get 50+ to commit.

I've not seen the divided v-band in person, so I can't say.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:28 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
please make the cast piece in t4!

somehow that divided vband housing and adapter look super restrictive.
I guess if you consider 750+whp out of a GTX3582 restrictive?
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:51 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
I guess if you consider 750+whp out of a GTX3582 restrictive?
I'm not seeing anything of the sort in the long runner thread. Didn't read the short runner thread. I did see some pretty cool looking back pressure graphs though
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:21 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
I'm not seeing anything of the sort in the long runner thread. Didn't read the short runner thread. I did see some pretty cool looking back pressure graphs though
What is your setup right now and what are your goals?

This not a monster power kit. It's made to make decent power, steetable power, essentially widen the 'traditional/rotated' area under the curve.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
I'm not seeing anything of the sort in the long runner thread. Didn't read the short runner thread. I did see some pretty cool looking back pressure graphs though
Scroll up a little bit, post #306
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
Scroll up a little bit, post #306
What thread? I didn't see anything in post #306 that was power related, just stuff about coils.


Nevermind, I thought you were talking about the evo threads.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:26 PM   #318
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fair enough. still looks super restrictive. the inlets if not divided look to be 2-2.5 inch in diamater which gives it an area likely smaller than even divided t3.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:56 PM   #319
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Put a black plastic intake on it and spool 700rpm faster!
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:11 AM   #320
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p p p p plastic?
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:06 AM   #321
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lol.
absolutely.
I started this pull at 3k rpm which is at least 500rpm later than junior did. The spool is still better on yours, but if I started the pull sooner the difference would have been much much smaller.


I did another build that was exactly the same with only one difference: the intake manifold. The other car was an STi while this graph is an 09 wrx with B25 heads (the longblock was literally identical). The STi spooled the turbo 700rpm later than the 09 wrx.

I'm not saying that you'll surely gain another 700, but you WILL see a significant improvement with no power loss. I think the plastic intake with your header would be the perfect balance of flow in and out of these engines.

Don't compare power numbers, this is on meth. I only posted this up for the spool characteristics. You can see how nearly straight up the boost curve is. From 0 to full boost in just over 1300 rpm.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:04 PM   #322
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With no other changes a black plastic manifold cannot give you 700rpms of spool difference. I like the black plastic manifolds a lot. They are a proven performer. But it isn't going to result in 700rpm spool difference by simply bolting that intake manifold on.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #323
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want a 2005 Legacy GT to build a prototype on
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:32 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
lol.

absolutely.

I started this pull at 3k rpm which is at least 500rpm later than junior did. The spool is still better on yours, but if I started the pull sooner the difference would have been much much smaller.





I did another build that was exactly the same with only one difference: the intake manifold. The other car was an STi while this graph is an 09 wrx with B25 heads (the longblock was literally identical). The STi spooled the turbo 700rpm later than the 09 wrx.



I'm not saying that you'll surely gain another 700, but you WILL see a significant improvement with no power loss. I think the plastic intake with your header would be the perfect balance of flow in and out of these engines.



Don't compare power numbers, this is on meth. I only posted this up for the spool characteristics. You can see how nearly straight up the boost curve is. From 0 to full boost in just over 1300 rpm.


Interesting data. What are your thoughts on why? I understand the thermal benefits of plastic, but the velocity of the air is so fast that I'd be VERY surprised if the thermal difference were even measurable.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:59 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Interesting data. What are your thoughts on why? I understand the thermal benefits of plastic, but the velocity of the air is so fast that I'd be VERY surprised if the thermal difference were even measurable.
Does it have anything to do with temperature or is it the different shape and volume of the plastic intake?
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