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Old 12-19-2012, 01:41 PM   #2176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Troll-like asswipe? Funny how you see in others what you dislike about yourself.

Here is an estimate, based upon math. You may be familiar with math, it allows you to estimate things, based upon known numbers.

In November, 2012, Subaru sold 4,552 of the newly designed Impreza's in the United States. We can estimate that Subaru has sold between 50,000-60,000 Impreza's in the United States over the past year. I haven't seen the total sales figure, but if you can find it, provide it.
You've identified 15-20 cases on this forum of individual owners who think their car is consuming oil. This forum is currently the main discussion of this issue that can be found on the internet. It actually shows up quite readily if you google Subura Impreza problems.

If we assume that at least 100 cars are consuming oil (more than any evidence so far suggests), and we estimate 55,000 total cars sold in the USA since last November, you are looking at 0.18% cars with oil consumption. That's the math part.

I know you think that thousands are affected, but you have no evidence to support that theory, but then again there seems to be little evidence for any of your theories.

Now fly off the handle again throwing another of your classic hissy fits...
The actual, year to date to date total of Imprezas sold up to November 30th, 2012 is 62,312.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:47 PM   #2177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexyGirl View Post
The actual, year to date to date total of Imprezas sold up to November 30th, 2012 is 62,312.
Thanks for the actual number sold in the US!

And we can add another 4,000 or so considering the preorders started showing up late november and into december of 2012 (when I took delivery of my own).

There are also a few reports of oil consumption from Canada, and there are of course additional sales of the Impreza in Canada not included in the number you provided.

I wonder if you have any comment on the percent of Impreza's that may be experiencing oil consumption issues?

Last edited by Zeeper; 12-19-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:12 PM   #2178
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According to her, the manager, and the tech, "all these new ones are burning oil, be glad you don't own a forester".
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #2179
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So far, my math looks pretty good. At least one side of the equation was right.

I know for a fact that all the new impreza's are not burning oil, because many owners of the new impreza are not experiencing any problems, including many of the people who have been posting on this forum and asking questions about the problem.

I took the 15-20 estimate from your post at face value, but I would be surprised if there are that many even on this forum. Why don't you work on identifying the correct number of individuals here that think their cars are consuming oil, so we can have a better number to calculate from.

Because my next assumption would be to multiply that number by 10, then estimate a percentage. Even if there are 200 out of the approximately 66,000 on the road, that would not be a huge percent (0.30%, to be exact).

That does not mean no cars are burning oil, but it definately indicates all the new Impreza's are not burning oil. Mine for example.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #2180
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For the last time, I'm not here to argue. You obviously have a superiority complex and keep trying to bait me into arguments, wherein you slander me and try your damnedest to make the issue about me instead of all these oil-burning cars.
Last check of the poll had 8 or 9 burners, and new members can't even vote in it.
I'm not trying to compute an exact number, only converse with other oil burners on what's being done.
You either are an intellectual elitist looking for an angry, down on his luck guy to belittle and agitate, or you have made "SOA online forum damage control" your lawyer-like hobby.
Soa needs to send you checks though, as your constant prodding has definitely caused me to lose my cool more than a few times.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #2181
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Oh, and for the record - I myself never said that "all" were consuming quarts of oil. Only that mine and several others were, and that we were unhappy with soa's responses to the matter.
If ALL of them were doing it, I'd be slightly less pissed about it. But being told "all of them" do it by dealers, and "no one else has complained about this" by soa is very frustrating. And soa loves to tell you that "all cars consume that amount, its normal".
Its not like a crappy dvd player from walmart we're pissed about. These are $20,000+ cars.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:11 PM   #2182
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While only SOA could know the real numbers, I believe only a small fraction of owners have a problem with oil burning. 'problem' meaning that they need to monitor their dip-stick and add oil before their scheduled oil-change.
However, I do think that a larger (don't know how much larger, could be small or could be large) set of owners have oil-burning in an acceptable level, where they don't need to add oil. Since some owners change their oil every 3K miles or 3 months, acceptable is pretty liberal.
I believe the vast majority of owners don't check their dip-stick regularly, definitely don't know and don't complain. Dealerships might not even record oil levels for vehicles coming for service.

Anyway, after almost getting a 2012 Impreza, with my luck I've decided to look elsewhere. The oil burning issue was the 'last cement block' to break the camel's back, so to speak. The slew of other defects / quality control issues and lacklustre avg MPG now dipping just below 28MPG on fuelly, peculiarities of the CVT control program (no manual for my commute), overall slowness and being a tad small for me were making this vehicle less desirable to me. Shame, because I really prefer the wagon style.

Had Subaru been helping owners fix the small percentage of vehicles with this issue, such that nobody needs to add oil on a new car before scheduled oil change (except for break-in), I would probably be getting an Impreza.
I probably be getting a CX-5 2.5L pretty soon instead.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #2183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Oh, and for the record - I myself never said that "all" were consuming quarts of oil. Only that mine and several others were, and that we were unhappy with soa's responses to the matter.
If ALL of them were doing it, I'd be slightly less pissed about it. But being told "all of them" do it by dealers, and "no one else has complained about this" by soa is very frustrating. And soa loves to tell you that "all cars consume that amount, its normal".
Its not like a crappy dvd player from walmart we're pissed about. These are $20,000+ cars.
79, we know that you didn't say that all Imprezas consume oil. What you said just a few posts above is that RexyGirl (and the manager, and the tech) told you that all the new ones burn oil (and be glad you don't have a Forester). So if Zeeper is refuting the "all" statement, then it's Rexy's statement he's refuting, not yours (assuming you're quoting her accurately).
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #2184
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
For the last time, I'm not here to argue. You obviously have a superiority complex and keep trying to bait me into arguments, wherein you slander me and try your damnedest to make the issue about me instead of all these oil-burning cars.
Last check of the poll had 8 or 9 burners, and new members can't even vote in it.
I'm not trying to compute an exact number, only converse with other oil burners on what's being done.
You either are an intellectual elitist looking for an angry, down on his luck guy to belittle and agitate, or you have made "SOA online forum damage control" your lawyer-like hobby.
Soa needs to send you checks though, as your constant prodding has definitely caused me to lose my cool more than a few times.
You lose your cool very quickly, don't blame it on anyone but yourself. That's called personal responsibility.

Stick with the subject at hand, and stop the name calling. It is a little childish to be constantly losing your cool and only a little creative to come up with terms like "troll-like asswipe".

I've said before that I think SOA should and probably will come through with a fix for cars that are consuming oil. It is best to keep your cool, keep records, and organize together if necessary. To that end it would be in your best interests to find out how many on this forum actually have the problem, and start working together.

Last edited by Zeeper; 12-19-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #2185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALafya View Post
While only SOA could know the real numbers, I believe only a small fraction of owners have a problem with oil burning. 'problem' meaning that they need to monitor their dip-stick and add oil before their scheduled oil-change.
However, I do think that a larger (don't know how much larger, could be small or could be large) set of owners have oil-burning in an acceptable level, where they don't need to add oil. Since some owners change their oil every 3K miles or 3 months, acceptable is pretty liberal.
I believe the vast majority of owners don't check their dip-stick regularly, definitely don't know and don't complain. Dealerships might not even record oil levels for vehicles coming for service.

Anyway, after almost getting a 2012 Impreza, with my luck I've decided to look elsewhere. The oil burning issue was the 'last cement block' to break the camel's back, so to speak. The slew of other defects / quality control issues and lacklustre avg MPG now dipping just below 28MPG on fuelly, peculiarities of the CVT control program (no manual for my commute), overall slowness and being a tad small for me were making this vehicle less desirable to me. Shame, because I really prefer the wagon style.

Had Subaru been helping owners fix the small percentage of vehicles with this issue, such that nobody needs to add oil on a new car before scheduled oil change (except for break-in), I would probably be getting an Impreza.
I probably be getting a CX-5 2.5L pretty soon instead.
If I was considering buying the new Impreza now I can guarantee that I would have found this thread, if you google "2012 Impreza problems" that will get you here, even if you never heard of NASIOC.

That being said, Consumer Reports lists the Impreza, along with other Subaru's, as one of the most reliable cars you can buy. If less than third of 1% have oil consumption problems, that is still a better track record than many other auto manufacturers -- and some (VW TDI comes to mind) are worse, much worse.

Last edited by Zeeper; 12-19-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #2186
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On Nasioc's own poll/survey, 15+% of those who answered have excessive oil consumption.
Remember though- newbies can't vote, so someone who finds it just from google won't be in the stats.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2366664

I also agree with the above comment, that most owners probably don't check their dipstick.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:41 PM   #2187
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Hey Subaru: not fixing defects is bad business.
Being cheap on few owners affects your bottom line.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:42 PM   #2188
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I've already provided links to the complaints on Edmunds, which always show up first in my google searches.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #2189
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Add me in for oil burning 1/2 qt per 1000 miles since new. Oil light never came on as i dont let it get that low with top offs
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:45 PM   #2190
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I was hungover one morning and got into a silver mazda3 parked next to my silver sube at a convenience store. I was really groggy. I realized it wasn't my car when I couldn't find the ignition key-hole and that the seats were firm and supportive.
It was funny, but can get you shot hehehe!
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:48 PM   #2191
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Consumer Reports, or anyone else for that matter can't possibly tell if a 2012 is reliable. They would have to wait until 2015, at the very least.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #2192
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That's a good way of thinking, subypete, constant vigilance. Welcome to the club, sir!
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #2193
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I also wonder if CR gets their oil changes at dealers, with the "extra quart".
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #2194
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On my way home from work today my 'at oil temp' light flashed on the called started to stall, then kinda chugged, then went off and the car seemed fine this rest of my way home. Any thoughts on what this is? Anyone else have this happen? I just checked the oil and it's full, not low at all.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:17 AM   #2195
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I've always felt for 79 and all the others who were burning oil because I've had problems with other cars that you cannot pinpoint and it takes a literal stroke of luck to come by a mechanic who finds out what it is...exactly. And..if SOA isn't willing to find out the problem....they are just being neglectful and we may even be talking a huge recall or class action lawsuit eventually. That's something we won't find out for awhile, but something has gotta give eventually.

My 92 GSX had some strange issue to where it would start driving like crap out of no where, check engine light comes on...then it pretty much goes away...and all is fine. But....just knowing it could act up like that puts you in a state of frustration 100% of the time you drive. Much like 79 must be. It turns out the same exact problem happened on my Dodge Stealth and I think it was a 93....it was the main computer module. Apparently they had no heat fans on the computer and over time they would heat up and the PCB board would eventually short out causing havok with all sorts if things even emulating other problems that might cost even MORE money to fix...

So what do you do....??? Since I believe this was the same case with the GSX I could have driven it longer had I fixed it. Instead I sold it and only lost $300 and I drove it for a good 20k before I got rid of it. Of course I did not mention the problem to the customer because I had no idea what it was and no way anyone would buy a car if I explained it had gremlins.

I'm most confused on why Subaru would take a perfectly working car in the 2007-08 and turn it into a less reliable car. I had read that Subbies were among the highest resale value of any car at one point....I'm not talking Lambo's or Ferrari's...just conventional cars. This was back in 2008 though.

So why redesign a new engine that is not working properly...hmmm/...is it because they aligned with Toyota who just years back were having HUGE recalls..... I really dread the day our 2007 has to be sold at this point because car prices don't seem to be getting better, in fact we paid 17k+ and no way do I think the 2013's are better cars...meanwhile Hyundai seem to be outselling them...at least in Florida...that's all I see anymore. Sonata after Sonata. The Legacy would be the direct comparison to that car but they run a little more than I'd like with little to no styling. I also barely see any Legacy cars on the road. I do see Impreza hatches and outbacks though.

One thing I do know is I don't like a car that burns oil right out of the gate...it's utterly ridiculous and it should be lemon lawed. 79 should be able to get it lemoned for 100% for all the hassle...as anyone who loses 1 quart every 1200 miles...that's a joke.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:43 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by alphaproject View Post
I've always felt for 79 and all the others who were burning oil because I've had problems with other cars that you cannot pinpoint and it takes a literal stroke of luck to come by a mechanic who finds out what it is...exactly. And..if SOA isn't willing to find out the problem....they are just being neglectful and we may even be talking a huge recall or class action lawsuit eventually. That's something we won't find out for awhile, but something has gotta give eventually.

My 92 GSX had some strange issue to where it would start driving like crap out of no where, check engine light comes on...then it pretty much goes away...and all is fine. But....just knowing it could act up like that puts you in a state of frustration 100% of the time you drive. Much like 79 must be. It turns out the same exact problem happened on my Dodge Stealth and I think it was a 93....it was the main computer module. Apparently they had no heat fans on the computer and over time they would heat up and the PCB board would eventually short out causing havok with all sorts if things even emulating other problems that might cost even MORE money to fix...

So what do you do....??? Since I believe this was the same case with the GSX I could have driven it longer had I fixed it. Instead I sold it and only lost $300 and I drove it for a good 20k before I got rid of it. Of course I did not mention the problem to the customer because I had no idea what it was and no way anyone would buy a car if I explained it had gremlins.

I'm most confused on why Subaru would take a perfectly working car in the 2007-08 and turn it into a less reliable car. I had read that Subbies were among the highest resale value of any car at one point....I'm not talking Lambo's or Ferrari's...just conventional cars. This was back in 2008 though.

So why redesign a new engine that is not working properly...hmmm/...is it because they aligned with Toyota who just years back were having HUGE recalls..... I really dread the day our 2007 has to be sold at this point because car prices don't seem to be getting better, in fact we paid 17k+ and no way do I think the 2013's are better cars...meanwhile Hyundai seem to be outselling them...at least in Florida...that's all I see anymore. Sonata after Sonata. The Legacy would be the direct comparison to that car but they run a little more than I'd like with little to no styling. I also barely see any Legacy cars on the road. I do see Impreza hatches and outbacks though.

One thing I do know is I don't like a car that burns oil right out of the gate...it's utterly ridiculous and it should be lemon lawed. 79 should be able to get it lemoned for 100% for all the hassle...as anyone who loses 1 quart every 1200 miles...that's a joke.
  1. You see way more Hyundai's in florida because in florida, AWD is a want, and not a need. I see a ton of hyundai's in NY State, because they are a good value for the money. I owned a problem free Hyundai Elantra -- if it had better traction in the snow, it would now be paid off and I would be driving it. If you want to live in an area where Subaru's outnumber Hyundai's, it would be tough, but try Vermont, NH, upstate NY, Maine, and Quebec. All the snowbirds who drive to Florida for the winter are probably accounting for 3/4 of the Hyundais you see, and most of the Subaru's you see in Florida.
  2. Subaru's are among the most reliable car brands on the road. They are not designed to burn oil "right out of the gate", and the evidence is that most of them do not. While I don't know the actual percent, and no one does, it does not appear to be very high. I would guess, given the reliability experienced with other Subaru models, that your chance of getting a problem subaru engine is lower than what you would experience with other manufacturers. The 1 quart per/1200 mile spec is probably also in the owners manual of the car you are currently driving. I will agree that Subaru should do something to fix cars that are burning oil, but they are certainly not the only manufacturer who sells cars with this type of cover their ass language in the owners manual.
  3. Toyota did not collaborate with Subaru on the redesign or manufacture of the new Impreza. To my knowledge the only collaboration was with the BRZ, though it appears most of the engineering and manufacturing was left to Subaru, who incorporated some Toyota technology into the BRZ.
  4. Subaru redesigned the car because the previous generation sold poorly. They wanted to offer a nice, sporty, small AWD vehicle that got acceptable MPG's, instead of a small, sporty, AWD car that got the MPG's of a large SUV. Since sales figures are through the roof, despite your disapointment with the changes from the previous generation, I'd say Subaru is probably quite happy with the new direction they took. Reliability and resale value are both expected to remain high.

    There are some owners with cars burning oil. Right now there are between 9-20 on the forum. Over 60,000 have been sold and are on the road. Those are not alarming signs of a toyota/subaru apocalypse.

Last edited by Zeeper; 12-20-2012 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:47 AM   #2197
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Amen! That's to what Alpha said, not mr SOA lawyer! Lol

Last edited by 79letour; 12-20-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:49 AM   #2198
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Thank you 79, Amen to you, too, brother.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:23 AM   #2199
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1 hyundai/kia have quite a few recalls in motion and quite a few issues more so than the subaru, hell today a new recall was issued for the panoramic sunroof in veloster exploding while driving. I believe a roof exploding on you while driving would be more dangerous than a car currently burning oil. Once the industry accepted threshold is reached car goes in for new engine, thats it. At present I am seeing more bitching and trolling than anything else. If this thread stayed objective it would serve others monitoring it a lot better. My 2 cents
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:23 AM   #2200
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But thanks for being friendly, Zeeper. Seriously.
Amen!
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