I take back what I said about the Legacy

[max_stirling]

I'm changing my position about the Legacy. All previous comments made in other treads were based on my impression of the Legacy from it's Detriot Show debut. On stage, it looked totally unimpressive and bland. Silver is so hoohum.

I recently went to the Subaru site and looked at their picks of the Legacy. The site definately had attractive and stylist photos of the Legacy. Much more attractive than the auto show pics. Black is much sexier and classier.

~$26K for the GT and ~$30K for the GT Limited definately puts it on competitive ground against heavy weights like the TSX, 330ix, and A4 3.2 quattro.

I still don't think that the Legacy will redefinate a class like the WRX, but it is definately something the competitors have to be concerned about if Subaru can get out an effective product launch and ad campaign. Also, their Need-Desire theme is eye catching.

A new Legacy convert.

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[crash]

Originally posted by max_stirling


I recently went to the Subaru site and looked at their picks of the Legacy. The site definately had attractive and stylist photos of the Legacy. Much more attractive than the auto show pics. Black is much sexier and classier.

That's because most of the shots on the site are the European Spec car w/ teh sexashy bumpers

[wildnuts]

Originally posted by crash
That's because most of the shots on the site are the European Spec car w/ teh sexashy bumpers

[WRSport]

Originally posted by crash
That's because most of the shots on the site are the European Spec car w/ teh sexashy bumpers

Come on, some of us are really trying to ignore this fact.

[Layman]

Originally posted by crash
That's because most of the shots on the site are the European Spec car w/ teh sexashy bumpers

Exactly.

[Gecko2k2]

Calm down. They have this thing they call the "aftermarket" in most industrialized nations. Usually in this big, scary "aftermarket" they make replacement bumpers among other things.

[phoenix96]

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
Calm down. They have this thing they call the "aftermarket" in most industrialized nations. Usually in this big, scary "aftermarket" they make replacement bumpers among other things.

Problem is, aftermarket parts (especially something like a bumper) are not options for a lot of people. They may void warranties and affect whether insurance covers damages to your car.

[WRSport]

Putting on a JDM bumper beam or modifying your USDM bumper beam FLAT OUT gives your insurance company the right to collect your money month after month after month and then laugh at you if you get in an accident. Much less, leaves you open to serious lawsuits from anyone else involved in any accident your in.

People who take these risks are in denial as far as the law and how these modifications affect their own legal liablility's. Much less the insurance implications.

[Gecko2k2]

I'm not complaining. I don't mind the bigger bumpers on the cars. Its the ones who are complaining that should be concerned.

[reks]

Originally posted by WRSport
Putting on a JDM bumper beam or modifying your USDM bumper beam FLAT OUT gives your insurance company the right to collect your money month after month after month and then laugh at you if you get in an accident. Much less, leaves you open to serious lawsuits from anyone else involved in any accident your in.

People who take these risks are in denial as far as the law and how these modifications affect their own legal liablility's. Much less the insurance implications.

I think that's a little harsh. What about people that drive custom-built cars? Hot rods? Restored ancient cars? Do you think all the parts on these cars are genuine? Are these people equally screwed?

Looking at it another way. Do you think most body shops would have any idea it was a JDM bumper if you were in a front end collision. Most people can't tell when the bumper is in *good* shape.

[rallyblues]

Agree, and also depends on the company.
If you were someone reputable and have been a customer for a long time there should be no problem.
People interchange car parts all the time.

[Layman]

Originally posted by reks
I think that's a little harsh. What about people that drive custom-built cars? Hot rods? Restored ancient cars? Do you think all the parts on these cars are genuine? Are these people equally screwed?

Looking at it another way. Do you think most body shops would have any idea it was a JDM bumper if you were in a front end collision. Most people can't tell when the bumper is in *good* shape.

No, he's absolutely correct. The cars you're talking about are covered by special insurance policies. You can't just meander into a Progressive office and insure your 35 Ford hot rod.

This is why I haven't done the lightweight bumper mod on my GC8.

[Layman]

Originally posted by rallyblues
Agree, and also depends on the company.
If you were someone reputable and have been a customer for a long time there should be no problem.
People interchange car parts all the time.

Not safety parts. One may argue how much the bumpers actually contribute to safety, but the insurance companies will probably win in a dispute. Just like swapping out an airbag steering wheel for a nice race wheel - I doubt an insurance company will be understanding about it in case of a claim.

[gtguy]

WRSport is right about the insurance ramifications of changing a bumper. You would have to hope that your insurance company didn't find out about it, or that your body shop didn't notice the non-standard parts that they were replacing, and report them to the insurance company.

But if you change a federally-regulated safety part such as a bumper, and have an accident, all bets are indeed off.

In the case of hot-rodders, they have special policies that govern that specific car. They aren't insuring a USDM Legacy that has a flimsier JDM bumper. In the case of restorers, they can't use original parts, but again, they are restoring the car to what it was. Sometimes they use replica parts, but the car is meeting its original standard that, in many cases, was established before the government got involved in bumpers and other safety equipment.

Kevin

[Scooby-Doode]

Originally posted by max_stirling
I'm changing my position about the Legacy. All previous comments made in other treads were based on my impression of the Legacy from it's Detriot Show debut. On stage, it looked totally unimpressive and bland. Silver is so hoohum.

I recently went to the Subaru site and looked at their picks of the Legacy. The site definately had attractive and stylist photos of the Legacy. Much more attractive than the auto show pics. Black is much sexier and classier.

~$26K for the GT and ~$30K for the GT Limited definately puts it on competitive ground against heavy weights like the TSX, 330ix, and A4 3.2 quattro.

I still don't think that the Legacy will redefinate a class like the WRX, but it is definately something the competitors have to be concerned about if Subaru can get out an effective product launch and ad campaign. Also, their Need-Desire theme is eye catching.

A new Legacy convert.

330xi??? You are joking right? lol

[username]

Originally posted by gtguy
... They aren't insuring a USDM Legacy that has a flimsier JDM bumper. ...Kevin

http://www.subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11969


"Subaru’s new generation Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive Liberty (Legacy) and Outback have been awarded the best ever five-star crashworthiness ratings in independent testing performed by the Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP)...."

the Australian bumpers are like the JDM. these so-called "flimsy" bumpers rated the highest EVER in a crash test.

another important safety aspect of the new Legacy is pedestrian protection.

"In addition to the bonnet energy absorbing design and detachable type modular wipers similar to those used on the second generation Forester, new features have been added to improve pedestrian protection.

The top mount of the front suspension is lowered, and clearance has been maintained between the engine and the bonnet.

This provides better energy absorption if a person strikes the bonnet, potentially decreasing injury.

Detachable front wipers, impact absorbing fenders and hood hinges are used.

Pedestrian leg protection has also been improved in the front spoiler area using advanced technology."

will the "reinforced", less "flimsy" bumper on the new US Legacy be less safe for pedestrians if they are ever unfortunate enough to be hit by one? i also wonder if the US bumper, by being more rigid, will be more likely to cause damage to the frame of the car?

[gtguy]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that overall crashworthiness is as much a function of the bumpers, as it is the overall structure, crumple zones, design and stiffness of the car. Clearly, the Legacy was designed with that in mind.

I'd want to know what would happen, however, when Australian or JDM bumpers have the low-speed fender dingers that seem to abound in the USDM. The other thing is wonder is if the extra room of the USDM bumper doesn't provide that "bounce" that we've all seen when someone hits something at low-speed with the front of the car. Hmmmm...

It is doubtful that Subaru would do anything different, crash-worthiness or pedestrian injury-wise, to the USDM Legacy vs the rest of the world. But I do think that automakers (well, some) are worried about that silly 5 or 10 mph barrier test that always makes the news, how "X car suffered more than $2,000 worth of damage in the IIHS 5 mph crash tests. Other bad models were..." And people believe that this has anything whatsoever to do with the overall crashworthiness of the car.

Kevin

[phoenix96]

Right. The bumpers have nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with money. The insurance companies don't want to pay a lot to fix the front/rear end of a car after it's been in a fender bender, so they pushed for the strict bumper regulations.