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Old 08-31-2015, 02:10 PM   #51
thescreensavers
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This is a good showing that some aftermarket Parts aren't better than OEM.

The Motor mounts squish a certain amount so does the OEM pitch stop if you stiffen one and not the other that's a recipient for disaster.

None of us know how much load was imposed onto the pitch mount bracket with the aftermarket part so blaming Subaru for ****ty design is just stupid. At this point it could be Subaru manufacturing defect or the aftermarket part.

That joint also looks Glued rather than welded (looking at the black WRX pitch mount failure).
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:39 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
This is a good showing that some aftermarket Parts aren't better than OEM.

The Motor mounts squish a certain amount so does the OEM pitch stop if you stiffen one and not the other that's a recipient for disaster.

None of us know how much load was imposed onto the pitch mount bracket with the aftermarket part so blaming Subaru for ****ty design is just stupid. At this point it could be Subaru manufacturing defect or the aftermarket part.

That joint also looks Glued rather than welded (looking at the black WRX pitch mount failure).

Wait, so by your reasoning it's an aftermarket part problem yet there is another example of a stock vehicle with the exact same defect. How does that logic pan out?

If you can't tell from my pictures the welds are broken and the metal is broken just like the stock black vehicle. As I stated earlier I am sure the aftermarket part contributed to it happening sooner than later. Based on what I've seen however it was going to happen.

I'm just not sure what other evidence could be shown to display that there is an issue in design or material. It has happened on a stock vehicle and a modified vehicle. That's the evidence.

I have no problem paying to have it fixed if need be. As the old adage goes "you've got to pay to play". I'm not sure if a few of the individuals here are trying to defend it because they think that will stop it from
Happening to them. It could be the perfect storm on my car and the stock car and the other car that was being looked at. Also, my car has NEVER been launched. No reason to. I will say though, my driving is %100 city. A lot of stop and go.
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:03 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Manley00 View Post
Wait, so by your reasoning it's an aftermarket part problem yet there is another example of a stock vehicle with the exact same defect. How does that logic pan out?

If you can't tell from my pictures the welds are broken and the metal is broken just like the stock black vehicle. As I stated earlier I am sure the aftermarket part contributed to it happening sooner than later. Based on what I've seen however it was going to happen.

I'm just not sure what other evidence could be shown to display that there is an issue in design or material. It has happened on a stock vehicle and a modified vehicle. That's the evidence.

I have no problem paying to have it fixed if need be. As the old adage goes "you've got to pay to play". I'm not sure if a few of the individuals here are trying to defend it because they think that will stop it from
Happening to them. It could be the perfect storm on my car and the stock car and the other car that was being looked at. Also, my car has NEVER been launched. No reason to. I will say though, my driving is %100 city. A lot of stop and go.
Unfortunately it does not matter if you launched it or not. As 100% it can be said that the loading of the pitch mount attachment to the chassis was increased by the aftermarket part.

The stock one from a few posts before broke in a completely different manner and cannot be compared to yours, the welds/attachment to the firewall are fine only the tab where the bolt connects are cracked.

The stock pitch mount failure can pretty much either a manufacture defect or that they had swapped the OEM one back after noticing it was broken, this is what the dealer or Subaru rep will do. That is why they check for bolt marks and other silly things its because that is what they are instructed to do.

Though I do remember seeing this happening to a few GRs as well even on the stock pitch mount albeit very rare. Point blank is you have an aftermarket part which is is super easy to blame because it does impose a higher load onto the bracket, and that's all the proof they need to deny your warranty repair.
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:21 PM   #54
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Here are some better photos... Where you can actually see the metal ripped apart. After further inspection it is barely hanging on from the top.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:29 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
Unfortunately it does not matter if you launched it or not. As 100% it can be said that the loading of the pitch mount attachment to the chassis was increased by the aftermarket part.

The stock one from a few posts before broke in a completely different manner and cannot be compared to yours, the welds/attachment to the firewall are fine only the tab where the bolt connects are cracked.

The stock pitch mount failure can pretty much either a manufacture defect or that they had swapped the OEM one back after noticing it was broken, this is what the dealer or Subaru rep will do. That is why they check for bolt marks and other silly things its because that is what they are instructed to do.

Though I do remember seeing this happening to a few GRs as well even on the stock pitch mount albeit very rare. Point blank is you have an aftermarket part which is is super easy to blame because it does impose a higher load onto the bracket, and that's all the proof they need to deny your warranty repair.
I am very confused where you read that I was denying responsibility? Or, where I am placing monetary responsibility on SOA? I will help you, I did not. So please do not insert your own hypothetical situations. Thanks!
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:43 PM   #56
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I swear my car has been pitching more lately, intercooler is coming off tonight to take a look
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:49 PM   #57
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I am very confused where you read that I was denying responsibility? Or, where I am placing monetary responsibility on SOA? I will help you, I did not. So please do not insert your own hypothetical situations. Thanks!
Sorry not really blaming you for that just adding to the discussion about subaru weak firewalls..etc

Those pics look pretty nasty lol
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:53 PM   #58
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Sorry not really blaming you for that just adding to the discussion about subaru weak firewalls..etc

Those pics look pretty nasty lol
Lol, it's definitely broken! It's just swinging around like a champ. As to the other gentleman, you can def tell driving the car that there is something a miss. Have to rev match when changing every gear or it feels as though the car "dies".
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:56 PM   #59
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Didn't read the whole thread, but if the pitch stop was upgraded, but the other mounts were left stock, that was likely to be the cause.

If you don't upgrade ALL the mounts, the motor is going to still have a ton of movement, and that pitch stop is going to take a massive beating.

Don't mix and match durometers on drivetrain mounts, that's a big no-no on any car, let alone a car like a Subaru with its ridiculously sloppy mounts that were designed by an idiot.
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:02 PM   #60
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I need to find that thread with the stock one that did the exact same thing. I would be amazed if the only one that this has happened to.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=pitch+stop
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:09 PM   #61
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Holy s*#@!!!!!
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:10 PM   #62
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It has occurred on a stock car, lol. Subaru doesn't have to do anything for aftermarket parts. I wish they would and people with aftermarket pitch stops are getting it done under warranty so subaru has obviously noticed something is wrong here. Time will tell I just hope it becomes a recall so for all of us that are good now can get a stronger mount before ours breaks
No one has yet to formerly report a failure on a stock car on this site. All we have is one guy saying he was at the dealership and supposedly there was a stock 2015 WRX getting fixed with this issue. That's it. No pictures or other proof. Until we start seeing documented failures in cars running STOCK mounts, you can't claim there is an OEM manufacturing issue. Subaru, and every other car maker out there, isn't in the business of designing cars to support aftermarket parts. I'm not saying there might be an issue here, but until we see it in cars with stock mounts, you can't conclusively say that there is a problem.
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:13 PM   #63
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No one has yet to formerly report a failure on a stock car on this site. All we have is one guy saying he was at the dealership and supposedly there was a stock 2015 WRX getting fixed with this issue. That's it. No pictures or other proof. Until we start seeing documented failures in cars running STOCK mounts, you can't claim there is an OEM manufacturing issue. Subaru, and every other car maker out there, isn't in the business of designing cars to support aftermarket parts. I'm not saying there might be an issue here, but until we see it in cars with stock mounts, you can't conclusively say that there is a problem.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=pitch+stop
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:14 PM   #64
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No one has yet to formerly report a failure on a stock car on this site. All we have is one guy saying he was at the dealership and supposedly there was a stock 2015 WRX getting fixed with this issue. That's it. No pictures or other proof. Until we start seeing documented failures in cars running STOCK mounts, you can't claim there is an OEM manufacturing issue. Subaru, and every other car maker out there, isn't in the business of designing cars to support aftermarket parts. I'm not saying there might be an issue here, but until we see it in cars with stock mounts, you can't conclusively say that there is a problem.

Doh, you should read a couple of posts behind yours... I hate it when that happens.
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:22 PM   #65
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Damn..this is concerning. I guess Subaru will need to take note.

Can't say I've had a problem on my 02' bugeye's pitchmount mount. It is solid as can be and has seen plenty of abuse. I have the factory pitchmount on my 2015 and I'll keep an eye on this issue.

BTW: ENasuta30's pitchmount completely sheared the factory sheet metal, this is kinda scary. Makes you wonder what kind of garbage-trash steel they were using in the construction of the rest of the car.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:00 PM   #66
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Thoughts on getting it reinforced before it goes?
To fix it properly, the whole mount needs to come out and a new one that is significantly stronger would then be added. The real b***h of it is that the firewall will have destroyed paint and the value of the car will be effected.

Another option would be replacing all mounts to limit overall drivetrain movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
This is a good showing that some aftermarket Parts aren't better than OEM.

The Motor mounts squish a certain amount so does the OEM pitch stop if you stiffen one and not the other that's a recipient for disaster.

None of us know how much load was imposed onto the pitch mount bracket with the aftermarket part so blaming Subaru for ****ty design is just stupid. At this point it could be Subaru manufacturing defect or the aftermarket part.

That joint also looks Glued rather than welded (looking at the black WRX pitch mount failure).
Your logic is incorrect. Rubber mounts allow the drivetrain to pickup speed and cut down on transferred vibration to the part and operator. Solid mounts do the opposite. If instead of .3" of movement, it could move .6", then it would have the potential to pickup significantly more inertia/speed.

The solid part's downside is the nvh and potential fatigue of metal through increased vibration (not that likely when at least some damper is used).

The part failed because it is too weak. Period


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manley00 View Post
Here are some better photos... Where you can actually see the metal ripped apart. After further inspection it is barely hanging on from the top.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1W...ew?usp=sharing
Torn steel. Awfully concerning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
Didn't read the whole thread, but if the pitch stop was upgraded, but the other mounts were left stock, that was likely to be the cause.

If you don't upgrade ALL the mounts, the motor is going to still have a ton of movement, and that pitch stop is going to take a massive beating.

Don't mix and match durometers on drivetrain mounts, that's a big no-no on any car, let alone a car like a Subaru with its ridiculously sloppy mounts that were designed by an idiot.
Read the whole thread.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:54 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by svltrack View Post
To fix it properly, the whole mount needs to come out and a new one that is significantly stronger would then be added. The real b***h of it is that the firewall will have destroyed paint and the value of the car will be effected.

Another option would be replacing all mounts to limit overall drivetrain movement
It's amazing how basic the support is for the mount. Why they hell couldn't they just use more steel? Anyway, I just pulled my Beatrush PSM out. Debating on if I should sell it or wait till I get the engine and tranny mounts.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:03 PM   #68
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It's amazing how basic the support is for the mount. Why they hell couldn't they just use more steel? Anyway, I just pulled my Beatrush PSM out. Debating on if I should sell it or wait till I get the engine and tranny mounts.
So true, it honestly looks like it should be a non load bearing mount. I'm very curious how they intend on fixing it. You can't just tac weld another piece in there, the whole area has been compromised now. Worries me that to really get in there and fix it properly is going to take some serious modification. Guess I'll find out more in the morning. I will def have after pics also.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:04 PM   #69
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So true, it honestly looks like it should be a non load bearing mount. I'm very curious how they intend on fixing it. You can't just tac weld another piece in there, the whole area has been compromised now. Worries me that to really get in there and fix it properly is going to take some serious modification. Guess I'll find out more in the morning. I will def have after pics also.
Good luck!
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:45 PM   #70
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Your logic is incorrect. Rubber mounts allow the drivetrain to pickup speed and cut down on transferred vibration to the part and operator. Solid mounts do the opposite. If instead of .3" of movement, it could move .6", then it would have the potential to pickup significantly more inertia/speed.

The solid part's downside is the nvh and potential fatigue of metal through increased vibration (not that likely when at least some damper is used).

The part failed because it is too weak. Period

Get 3 blocks of wood, think of it as 2x4s if that helps(wood wood wood) put them together and crush it, now get 2 blocks of wood and 1 block of metal(wood metal wood) and now try to crush it.

Out of the Wood/Metal/Wood Block , Which block do you think takes most of the load now?(ans Metal) Same thing in this situation.

Before the engine moves 0.6" (Crushing 3 blocks of wood) but then you install this pitch mount and now only .3" (2 blocks of wood 1 block of metal) what do you think is going to take more load now? (Answer Pitch mount), since the pitch mount is plenty strong so it translates to the weakest link, the firewall/welded joint.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:39 PM   #71
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now even i'm thinking about removing my group-n pitch stop.. tho i shouldn't.. i figure if its gonna break it will break with either mount.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:47 PM   #72
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now even i'm thinking about removing my group-n pitch stop.. tho i shouldn't.. i figure if its gonna break it will break with either mount.
Exactly! I will stay on top of them and see what they are going to do to remedy the problem. It probably doesn't hurt that I manage the dealership next to theirs either.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:04 PM   #73
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Doh, you should read a couple of posts behind yours... I hate it when that happens.
I had already read that guys thread a couple weeks ago when i was researching the possible purchase of a 2016. I went back and found some older posts of his referencing the install of a pitch mount. Apparently he must of went back to stock and then reported it to Subaru.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:26 PM   #74
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I wonder if the solid mounts are just too much for the car. Seems some units are waay to stiff. I can't imagine Subaru changed the mounting parts on the car compared to the previous gen. Maybe someone can chime in on failures in older cars. I'd like to here one of the vendors opinion on the issue. The images above show a lot of lateral movement.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:33 PM   #75
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since the "group n" is sort of an OEM STI part, i can't imagine it would break quicker than stock. my perrin i can understand, that thing was a lot stiffer.
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