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Old 10-16-2005, 03:12 AM   #1
DILLIGAF Racing
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Default Dedicated Track cars

How many people have them? I have been thinking lately (while looking at the cost of parts for my car), and have found a REALLY cheap Honduh, that is solid. Needs work, but is rust free. Oh yeah, did I mention it was cheaper than the cost of a STi brake job, by alot?
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Old 10-16-2005, 04:01 AM   #2
abaxter34
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i went with a miata for mine. its slowly going to become a spec miata. yeah its slow on the straight but it goes faster thru the corners than a soob ever would. the best thing about having a track car is still having a car to get to work in if things dont go your way on track.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abaxter34
i went with a miata for mine.
Me too...

Other than being cheap to buy, reliable, and cheap to operate (things that I suspect your Honda would also be) it's RWD and you have a convertible for nice days. Even a stock Miata will probably outhandle a lot of modified Hondas (and more importantly be more fun to drive)

john
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Old 10-16-2005, 12:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
Me too...

Other than being cheap to buy, reliable, and cheap to operate (things that I suspect your Honda would also be) it's RWD and you have a convertible for nice days. Even a stock Miata will probably outhandle a lot of modified Hondas (and more importantly be more fun to drive)

john
Honda Challenge 4 cars will shatter your illusion that FWD cars aren't fun to drive, the engines are cheap and last forever. You also have more good choices if you want to go racing. Oh and they are way faster than miatas. Last weekend's best lap times at the race at infineon:

Class: HC 4
1 70 Donna Gilio 11 1:55.612
2 44 Team GOTO Racing 2 11 1:55.915
3 45 Team GOTO Racing 11 1:56.296
4 11 Mike Quan 11 1:58.175
5 19 Brent Bertsch 11 1:58.660 11
6 62 Al Lockett 11 2:02.025
7 33 Brian Zoraster 3 1:56.056 2

Class: SM
1 1 David Vodden 11 1:57.338 10
2 44 Team California's Best 11 1:58.226
3 81 timothy long 11 1:58.354 2
4 64 Bill Brown MD 11 1:58.739
5 20 Bruce Pendleton 10 2:00.126 2
6 72 Team Momentary Laps Racing 10
7 33 Eileen Thomas 10 2:03.108 2
8 32 Marshall Donig 10 2:01.378 2
9 77 Barry Walter 10 2:03.346 2
10 98 Eric Russell 10 2:04.825 9
11 3 Ryan Imperial 10 2:08.279 3

here my incar. enjoy:

http://www.gotoracing.com/images/rss...challenge1.wmv

right click save as

Chris Lock
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Old 10-16-2005, 01:56 PM   #5
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My RS morphed into one over time. The Tec-2 was a fairly decent contributor... then came the cage... and then the flares. Strangely enough it was the arrival of our daughter that necesitated another vehicle for myself... child seat and all. An '03 Evo does the family duty and the RS is saved for... well lately it's been "saved" too much if you know what I mean. Slated for two days at Loudon this coming weekend though....

Fitz
www.Flat4Racing.com



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Old 10-16-2005, 01:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
Me too...

Other than being cheap to buy, reliable, and cheap to operate (things that I suspect your Honda would also be) it's RWD and you have a convertible for nice days. Even a stock Miata will probably outhandle a lot of modified Hondas (and more importantly be more fun to drive)

john
one slight problem with me.....I'm 6'5". So a Miata is out of the question for me.
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Old 10-16-2005, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DILLIGAF Racing
one slight problem with me.....I'm 6'5". So a Miata is out of the question for me.
Gotcha

john
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Old 10-16-2005, 02:11 PM   #8
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plus this Honda I am looking at is a 92 coupe, rolling chassis (see: Drop in motor and trans) for $100. My brake pads cost more than that.
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Old 10-16-2005, 02:21 PM   #9
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hey if you find another one let me know... haha
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Old 10-16-2005, 03:10 PM   #10
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I drive a Accord daily anymore. Thinkin bout putting the STi on a diet but hate to lose the ability to take sunday drives....
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Old 10-16-2005, 04:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goto_racing
Honda Challenge 4 cars will shatter your illusion that FWD cars aren't fun to drive, the engines are cheap and last forever. You also have more good choices if you want to go racing. Oh and they are way faster than miatas. Last weekend's best lap times at the race at infineon:

Class: HC 4
1 70 Donna Gilio 11 1:55.612
[...]
Class: SM
1 1 David Vodden 11 1:57.338 10
Hello,

Chris, so what you're saying is that Honda Challenge cars are 1.7 seconds a lap faster than Spec Miatas, while allowing the following mods that are all not allowed in Spec Miata: higher compression ratios, reprogrammed ECUs, intakes, headers, underdrive pulleys, ignition coils, fuel pressure regulators, accusumps, oil pan baffles, flywheels, diffs, final drive gear ratios, open coilovers, open swaybars, open bushings (including converting to 100% spherical bushings), brake replumbing to allow driver controlled biasing, brake ducting, ABS, aerodynamics (spliters, wings), etc.

And in SM, 1.6 liter engines run as-is. 1.8 liter engines have various restrictor plates added to reduce their power even further. I see that as despite having significantly fewer mods, the SMs are almost as fast as the Honda Challenge 4 cars.

Of course, it used to be that you could say SM was dirt cheap, but these days most of the winners are on $6k stock motors So SM is a lot less cheap... A starter car can be had for about $6k ready to race. A competitive car is probably closer to $12-15k, with a top car running $20k or more.

How much are the various levels of HC cars? (asking because I want to know, not being facetious)

That said, I think both series are great and both make a whole lot more sense than driving your street car at the track. You'll learn so much more in racing and the risk is so much lower because of the safety (cages) and the fact that there are fewer stupid morons racing than there are stupid morons going to track days (I'm talking about the guys who you see and instantly think to yourself "I don't want to drive in any session he's in.")

Joel
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Old 10-16-2005, 05:37 PM   #12
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I'll def. need to look at Honda Challenge rules when building the car up. If I get it, it will be a "project", so its not getting done in a few weeks. It will be done over time. Just need to figure out what motor to put in, without braking the bank.
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Old 10-16-2005, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Gat, 1.8L
Hello,

Chris, so what you're saying is that Honda Challenge cars are 1.7 seconds a lap faster than Spec Miatas, while allowing the following mods that are all not allowed in Spec Miata: higher compression ratios, reprogrammed ECUs, intakes, headers, underdrive pulleys, ignition coils, fuel pressure regulators, accusumps, oil pan baffles, flywheels, diffs, final drive gear ratios, open coilovers, open swaybars, open bushings (including converting to 100% spherical bushings), brake replumbing to allow driver controlled biasing, brake ducting, ABS, aerodynamics (spliters, wings), etc.

And in SM, 1.6 liter engines run as-is. 1.8 liter engines have various restrictor plates added to reduce their power even further. I see that as despite having significantly fewer mods, the SMs are almost as fast as the Honda Challenge 4 cars.

Of course, it used to be that you could say SM was dirt cheap, but these days most of the winners are on $6k stock motors So SM is a lot less cheap... A starter car can be had for about $6k ready to race. A competitive car is probably closer to $12-15k, with a top car running $20k or more.

How much are the various levels of HC cars? (asking because I want to know, not being facetious)

That said, I think both series are great and both make a whole lot more sense than driving your street car at the track. You'll learn so much more in racing and the risk is so much lower because of the safety (cages) and the fact that there are fewer stupid morons racing than there are stupid morons going to track days (I'm talking about the guys who you see and instantly think to yourself "I don't want to drive in any session he's in.")

Joel
Honda Challenge is identical to ITA spec, but with allowances in the accesory pullies(not main pulley), and ingition coils. We don't have significantly bumped compression. My point is these motors are not expensive.

I like to point out honda challenge as an alternative to SM, because of how expensive an competitive SM car is. I see them for sale for like 15-20K all the time, and I have to laugh.

Doug Fournier raced with us last year because he was tired of being outclassed by the 15K "spec" miata motors. You need money to win SM. By comparision, I am this years H4 champion in Norcal. I bought my used 30K mile b18 2 seasons ago for $800. pulled the head off and machined it to IT spec($600). dc sports headers($300 on ebay), custom exhaust ($80). all my MSD ignition stuff ($500). don't forget my cold air intake for $30(ebay), So around $2200 later, I have an engine AND periperals. then I have about $5000 in to the chassis. The donor car was 3 grand. So in total you can see that I have one of the "cars to beat" in Northern CA, for just alittle more than 10K. But more importantly is that the mid packers are almost stock and still only about a second off the pace, and we are all still faster than the 15-20K miata.

I have nothing against SM. But it is always mentioned as the "cheap" way to go racing, and I always have to raise the honda flag at that . Some day when it gets more popular like SM, maybe we will ahve to spend 30K to build a fast car, but right now, I think it is the best class for the money.
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:01 PM   #14
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I have been eyeing a 86-88 mr2 for a track car. has anyone had experience with this car? (i don't care so much if it's not the cheapest to build up)
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:07 PM   #15
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I mentioned the Miata mostly bc I think it's a great 2nd car. Not so much for the wheel to wheel benefits. The thread just sez track car, which for more people than not just means "track day" car

john
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:35 PM   #16
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I owned a miata for about 8 years that turned into an almost dedicated track and autocross car. It was street legal and I drove it to events but it was not comfortable as it had two alum. Kirkey seats.

The car was bullet proof and cheap to run but family needs meant I needed to consolidate my daily driver and fun car. I had to sell the miata and then traded in my 2000 RS on an 05 WRX. I figured it would fill the roll as both the daily driver and fun car.....we'll see.

Here is my trusty old miata

I guess I can't post pics yet so check it out at

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/325668
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goto_racing
Oh and they are way faster than miatas.
personally i would look a class size rather than lap times. id rather run a car that is dirt slow in a group of 20 other like cars than run with 4 other guys but put down laps that are 5-10 seconds faster. id check out which classes in your proximity have the largest participation.
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goto_racing
Honda Challenge is identical to ITA spec, but with allowances in the accesory pullies(not main pulley), and ingition coils. We don't have significantly bumped compression. My point is these motors are not expensive.

I like to point out honda challenge as an alternative to SM, because of how expensive an competitive SM car is. I see them for sale for like 15-20K all the time, and I have to laugh.

Doug Fournier raced with us last year because he was tired of being outclassed by the 15K "spec" miata motors. You need money to win SM. By comparision, I am this years H4 champion in Norcal. I bought my used 30K mile b18 2 seasons ago for $800. pulled the head off and machined it to IT spec($600). dc sports headers($300 on ebay), custom exhaust ($80). all my MSD ignition stuff ($500). don't forget my cold air intake for $30(ebay), So around $2200 later, I have an engine AND periperals. then I have about $5000 in to the chassis. The donor car was 3 grand. So in total you can see that I have one of the "cars to beat" in Northern CA, for just alittle more than 10K. But more importantly is that the mid packers are almost stock and still only about a second off the pace, and we are all still faster than the 15-20K miata.

I have nothing against SM. But it is always mentioned as the "cheap" way to go racing, and I always have to raise the honda flag at that . Some day when it gets more popular like SM, maybe we will ahve to spend 30K to build a fast car, but right now, I think it is the best class for the money.
Pretty much what I am looking to do. Buy as much as I can off Ebay and Junk Yards.
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Old 10-16-2005, 09:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goto_racing
I have nothing against SM. But it is always mentioned as the "cheap" way to go racing, and I always have to raise the honda flag at that . Some day when it gets more popular like SM, maybe we will ahve to spend 30K to build a fast car, but right now, I think it is the best class for the money.
its great to see sm become a national class but its proabaly only going to make the class even more expensive though. ive heard of some cars having almost $30k into them.
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Old 10-16-2005, 10:00 PM   #20
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I know of 2 SM cars, that have at least that much into them.
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Old 10-16-2005, 10:01 PM   #21
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Shifter Kart. Relatively cheap and stupid fast. I tow it with my Subaru.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:12 PM   #22
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I started thinking about getting a dedicated track car. I've got about $7k into my WRX and its 100whp and a set of 275/35/17 Hoosiers away from being compeditive in my class.

I could de-mod and be competitive in a lower class, but where's the fun in that? I'd prefere to add that 100hp and the tires. Too bad my budget doesn't allow it. I'd love to see what others are using for track cars.

Anyone make the move into a Formula class like Formula Vee or something similar? A few of the guys I race with have gone from tracking their WRX's to track only Miatas. I'm not sure I'd like to go with the herd.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:40 PM   #23
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The STi is our dedicated track car

-Tom
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:47 PM   #24
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as of right now, mine is too. I need to talk to my Honda friend about this car. I am thinking regardless this is the smart thing to do.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:11 AM   #25
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Daily driver:

Track car:
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