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Old 09-07-2006, 08:07 PM   #51
Dave6265
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Bump for sticky, this will be AWESOME if the OP keeps up with it. thumbs up
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:31 PM   #52
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indeed, good work! (and subscribed)
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:18 PM   #53
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**EDIT**

So I increased the whp range for the small 16g to 260-280

I've also added a Max Whp column, however, I don't know alot of the maxes, if you know of one, please chime in. Thanks guys.
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:25 PM   #54
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I've always wanted to make a thread like this but never got around to it.

Well done, sir.
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:47 PM   #55
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Wheres all the FP Green love? I make 21psi at 4500rpms and 330whp at 6600ft elevation on 91 oct.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRgr View Post
"Spool"...as noted earlier, what is it? When the turbo starts "whistling" audibly? When it starts to show positive pressure on boost gauge? When the turbo has acheived it's max pressure?

Reading thru the responses, it's clear that folks are looking at it with different understandings. Adding an exclusive definition for "spool" to the first post would be great.
i consider it when the butt dyno starts registering and the car no longer feels anemic. if you want to go the "whistling audibly" route then under the right conditions i can spool at 2500rpms
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:38 AM   #57
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+1 for this being a great idea... thanks for the initiative and all the work. This is a great place for shoppers to get an initial idea of which turbos they want to research more thoroughly. Here's some more input:
  1. Since max boost is often reported in the same places you're getting these data, it'd be a helpful thing to add psi as suggested. IOW, when the turbo's fully spooled, what's it kickin'?
  2. If you want to spiff it up further (I'm volunteering you !) you could find manufacturer's data on max compressor flow in lbs/min, arguably the best single number to differentiate and rank turbos.
  3. Turbo A is fully spooled at 3300 and turbo B at 4300... which has the better spool? The thing we really want, IMO, is the result of the forced induction -- the increased torque. Spool characteristics indicate this only indirectly. What if turbo A is making 200 wtq at 3300 but turbo B, though it continues ramping up well past this rpm, is already making 225 wtq at 3300? Which is the better turbo at low revs? ... What do you think about including wheel torque at max boost and/or wtq at 3000 and 3500? Maybe this is too much, IDK.
  4. My experience with a 7cm2 18g falls right in the numbers you posted.
Your response to all the advice you've been getting has been great, man. Excellent thread!
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:39 AM   #58
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it must be asked again, what is considered "spool?"

my vf23 hits 1 bar pretty quickly.. and flies right past it on the way to max boost--24psi.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:56 AM   #59
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
3300 rpm? without logs this info is to be taken with a huge chunk of salt...
Oh yeah??? How's this for ya homeslice
Code:
Time,Engine Speed (RPM),Air/Fuel Correction #1 (%),Mass Air Flow (g/s),Intake Air Temperature (°F),Ignition Timing (°BTDC),Knock Correction (°BTDC),Fuel Injector #1 Duty (%),Air Flow Sensor Voltage (V),Air/Fuel Sensor #1 (AFR),Knock Signal #1 (On/Off),Engine Load (0219BD) (g),Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (PSI)
0,2813,25.00,11.00,73.40,32,0,3.60,1.760,14.59,0,0.44,-10.157
203,2787,25.00,11.30,73.40,32,0,4.16,1.780,14.59,0,0.47,-10.012
406,2780,24.22,11.40,73.40,33,0,4.15,1.780,14.36,0,0.47,-10.012
609,2798,21.88,22.76,73.40,23,0,5.97,2.220,14.36,0,0.84,-8.125
812,2837,23.44,45.08,73.40,20,0,11.50,2.680,15.39,0,1.81,-1.886
1015,2825,0.00,50.44,73.40,30,8,12.05,2.760,12.40,0,2.13,0.435
1218,2852,0.00,55.53,73.40,29,9,13.38,2.840,11.83,0,2.31,1.741
1422,2909,0.00,61.37,73.40,24,9,14.89,2.920,11.48,0,2.53,3.482
1625,2926,0.00,67.02,73.40,22,9,16.23,3.040,11.37,0,2.75,4.933
1828,3024,0.00,73.86,73.40,22,9,18.06,3.160,11.37,0,3.00,6.529
2031,3075,0.00,85.14,73.40,21,9,19.68,3.260,11.25,0,3.28,8.416
2234,3175,0.00,97.26,73.40,19,9,22.35,3.320,11.25,0,3.59,10.447
2437,3220,0.00,109.87,73.40,14,8,26.10,3.480,11.25,0,4.00,12.914
2640,3338,0.00,128.15,73.40,12,7,30.62,3.680,11.25,0,4.53,15.961
2843,3445,0.00,147.48,73.40,12,7,36.01,3.840,11.25,0,5.13,19.588
3047,3526,0.00,158.80,73.40,12,7,39.11,3.920,11.25,0,5.38,22.200
3250,3648,0.00,167.01,73.40,12,7,40.47,3.940,11.25,0,5.47,22.635
3453,3752,0.00,173.15,73.40,13,7,42.42,4.000,11.25,0,5.44,22.635
3656,3900,0.00,174.52,73.40,13,7,43.26,4.000,11.25,0,5.38,22.635
3859,3985,0.00,177.28,71.60,14,7,44.20,4.040,11.25,0,5.28,22.635
4062,4139,0.00,182.96,71.60,14,7,46.80,4.060,11.25,0,5.28,22.635
4265,4313,0.00,189.87,71.60,15,7,48.76,4.100,11.25,0,5.28,22.490
4468,4394,0.00,192.07,71.60,15,7,48.74,4.140,11.25,0,5.28,22.635
4672,4491,0.00,199.09,71.60,17,8,49.82,4.180,11.25,0,5.25,22.345
4875,4635,0.00,201.82,71.60,18,9,50.43,4.180,11.25,0,5.19,22.055
Again, this is for the BIG 16G turbo. I hit that fullboost, 22psi, in 2nd gear at 3500rpm or just under. Imagine what I can do in 4th...
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:51 AM   #61
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How do you guys read logs? I've always wondered, b/c to me, it looks like a bunch of gibberish...
(anyone know of a good tutorial, thread, etc.)

Also, when looking at a dyno chart, when do you guys characterize full boost, highest slope of HP line, or highest point of TQ line?
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:55 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoohooRX View Post
How do you guys read logs? I've always wondered, b/c to me, it looks like a bunch of gibberish...
(anyone know of a good tutorial, thread, etc.)
practice is the only way.

Quote:
highest point of TQ line?
^^ most of the time that's when peak boost comes on.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:56 AM   #63
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On a dyno chart, typically the peak torque is at or JUST past the point where the turbo hits full boost. Like on my 16g I would suspect that my peak torque is probably around 4k, then levels off for 1k more rpm, then tapers down while the hp curve continues to climb up.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:57 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebos123 View Post
is that supposed to define what the original poster meant? or what everyone else in this thread means?
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:46 PM   #65
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As for the big 16g, we had a guy running 305 WHP without meth and 340 WHP with meth. Was tested at Topspeed Racing in Alpharetta, GA. Whp is going to depend on the dyno though.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:33 PM   #66
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With a good tune, so called "spool charachteristics" may change dramtically. Coming from the honda world, these turbos spool faster than anything I ever ran.(t3/t04e .57 trim, pt67(montser), and this was on a 1.8! Regardless , this thread is great. Good info for newbs to such as myself. I'm leaning 18g myself..
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:45 PM   #67
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VF34 has Roller bearing on one side only. It is not fully supported by bearings. The compressor is not the same as VF30. The VF34 has a Teflon seal on the inside face of the compressor housing. On startup the Compressor wheel Cuts or rubs this seal. This makes for a perfect seal from Compressor wheel to Housing. Its a pretty advanced turbo. It will not however come on faster then a VF30. It does have better response though.

Clark
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
VF34 has Roller bearing on one side only. It is not fully supported by bearings. The compressor is not the same as VF30. The VF34 has a Teflon seal on the inside face of the compressor housing. On startup the Compressor wheel Cuts or rubs this seal. This makes for a perfect seal from Compressor wheel to Housing. Its a pretty advanced turbo. It will not however come on faster then a VF30. It does have better response though.

Clark
I always thought the 30 came on 500 rpms later?... from just what i've read on here.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:26 PM   #69
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Placebo. If that bearing contained that much friction on the VF30 it would be Glowing red hot and they would not last very long

Clark
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:47 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Placebo. If that bearing contained that much friction on the VF30 it would be Glowing red hot and they would not last very long

Clark

werd. guess its just more of that false stuff flying around here. glad to know...cause i just bought a 30 the other day.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:58 PM   #71
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PE 1820
3.6k - 4.3k Personally I see full spool at 3.75k
Avg whp 300-310 whp
Max without any alcohol 330
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:01 PM   #72
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GT3040R

Has GT35R compressor wheel and housing and Gt30 .82 A/R housing in 40 trim turbine

2.5L

spools at 3300rpm... max boost by 4000rpm.... 36psi of boost
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:25 PM   #73
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I have to agree with ride on this one, while its a nice gesture and I applaud your effort, this thread is worthless. Spool is a generic term, what your interested in the the amount of air flow at a pressure and an engine speed. Turbo A may be "spooled" to 1 bar at 3200 rpm and Turbo B may be "spooled" to 1 bar at 3800 rpm but are moving the same amount of air at 3200 rpm. Since airflow will determine torque (well with fuel and timing considered) someone may look at this and say Turbo A is great!!! when in reality Turbo B is gonna smoke Turbo A. Not to mention that tune will change everything.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:29 PM   #74
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subscribed
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:46 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky NRK View Post
I have to agree with ride on this one, while its a nice gesture and I applaud your effort, this thread is worthless.
I heartily disagree. Newbs don't need exact spool rates. Just approximate power vs stock. What each turbo spools (full boost, response, I con't care) approximately in comparison to each other. That's enough for one to get an idea where they want to be and then refine their search.
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