Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 14, 2018
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Car Audio, Video & Security

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2016, 01:37 AM   #1
WRXBowler
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 459249
Join Date: Dec 2016
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
DGM

Default 2017 WRX- Speakers, Amp, Sub question

Hi guys. New to the forum. Been around for a month or so looking through threads and am waiting to pick up my 2017 Limited WRX in 1-2 months. I'm currently looking into Speakers, Amps, and Subwoofers as I want to upgrade the sound system. I have no knowledge of what to look for so I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

Currently, I've just been looking through crutchfield.com to get some ideas and am going to just shop for the best prices I can get. Was hoping someone could guide me as to what I should be looking for (ohms, frequency output). I also would like to get a subwoofer box that ideally would fit perfectly in the trunk to bolt on if anyone has any suggestions as well (or even one that would fit in the trunk on the sides).

If it helps, I listen mainly to Hip Hop and some EDM stuff. Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by WRXBowler; 12-05-2016 at 01:49 AM.
WRXBowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-05-2016, 05:25 AM   #2
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

On a 2017 WRX Limited with Starlink telematics it's complicated. I recommend not doing anything for a few months until things are sorted out with the changes. I have big regrets right now.

The 9-speaker HK system wasn't that bad sounding, as long as I turned the bass down 2-3 steps due to it being muddy and boomy. But I missed my Apple Carplay and dual 10" subs that was in my Forester XT, and my Pioneer 8200NEX was faster, plus it would let my passenger enter an address into navigation while the factory GSP won't accept input while moving.

I've gone through a nightmare this past week with my 2017 WRX Limited and aftermarket head unit, because Subaru put the Starlink telematics Data Control Module right under the factory head unit, which is not actually dual-DIN because of the 1/2 DIN space used up by the DCM. So we can't install a dual-DIN head unit without losing all of Starlink's SOS and Roadside assistance calling, as well as locating the car, remote controlling the door locks and lights and horn, etc. There is no aftermarket harness yet to relocate the DCM yet.

If you ditch the DCM then Subaru's Starlink people will think your car's current location is the last place the car was seen, and if you have a crash they'll send the ambulance to your stereo installer's location and not where you are at the moment. I've also received emails and phone calls telling me my that car is malfunctioning. I already paid for 3 years of Starlink, and want to keep it working.

We re-installed the factory head unit instead of keeping my Pioneer 8200NEX head unit in the car, but retained my JL 5-channel amp, Focal speakers, and Kenwood subwoofers by using line level converters between the head unit and amp (due to lack of RCA output), and now we still can't locate the car. Now it's going to a new technician this week to get the Starlink locator fixed (while GPS NAV works fine). Plus the line level converters sound like crap and he's going to go with a signal processor instead, and try to make sure the DCM is seeing a proper speaker load to avoid a telematics error.

If you install a single DIN head unit instead, so that you can retain the DCM without relocating it, you'd still need to maintain a speaker level signal from the head unit's front channel going into the DCM, and then out of the DCM to some kind of hi-impedance speakers (or to the Harmon Kardon amp and then some kind of speakers). Otherwise telematics will give you an error due to "no speakers".

As far as I can tell from reading online, the Maestro RR (or SW) is the only way to retain steering wheel controls at this time - the installer couldn't find any instructions or programming for the PAC SWIRC or Metra AXXESS with a 2017 WRX. And I think the RR now gives you a 6v+ power for the factory backup camera, but 4 of the wires for the backup camera were moved from the 28-pin harness in previous years to a new 5-pin harness in 2017, of which only 4 pins are used. The reverse signal is still on pin #2 of the 28-pin harness. Unfortunately, the only Maestro RR that my installer had in stock could not be recognized or programmed (defective) by his computer.

Also, other people tried taping into the factory microphone harness (no idea where the wires are) and found that while Siri could understand commands the people they were talking to couldn't understand them very well at all.

Another option is the OEM Plus audio upgrade which you can order at your parts counter, I think. Some people have said they really like the improvements.

This is all moot if you didn't pre-pay for 3-years of Starlink service and don't care about it, and have a good installer who can do the Maestro RR and re-use your OEm backup camera if those things matter to you.
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:38 AM   #3
WRXBowler
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 459249
Join Date: Dec 2016
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
DGM

Default

Thank you for such a detailed response! However, I wasn't planning on changing anything with the head unit. I just wanted to add a subwoofer and amp to get more bass in and then swap out the front, passenger, and rear speakers. I wouldn't have to touch the HU for that right? I'm a car audio newb so i'm not sure.
WRXBowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:57 AM   #4
colli1990
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 368994
Join Date: Sep 2013
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Glenville, NY
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Wrb

Default

Great info in this thread already! Not to hijack but I have a limited with HK and want a similar upgrade to the OP. Does the OP also have HK? Didn't see it mentioned but figured I'd ask. What benefit could be seen from speaker upgrades, especially sub, on the limited HK if you have any idea?
colli1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 02:17 PM   #5
WRXBowler
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 459249
Join Date: Dec 2016
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colli1990 View Post
Great info in this thread already! Not to hijack but I have a limited with HK and want a similar upgrade to the OP. Does the OP also have HK? Didn't see it mentioned but figured I'd ask. What benefit could be seen from speaker upgrades, especially sub, on the limited HK if you have any idea?
Forgot to mention that I do not have the HK upgrade. Just standard.
WRXBowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 07:20 PM   #6
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXBowler View Post
Thank you for such a detailed response! However, I wasn't planning on changing anything with the head unit. I just wanted to add a subwoofer and amp to get more bass in and then swap out the front, passenger, and rear speakers. I wouldn't have to touch the HU for that right? I'm a car audio newb so i'm not sure.
When I first modded my 2015 Forester XT stereo I simply used an LC2i line level converter in parallel to my rear door speakers, and sent the signal into a Kenwood 500W class-D amp with Kenwood 10" subwoofer box. I left the 440watt 8-speaker HK amp and speakers alone. It was very good except that it would not play below 32Hz, whereas the same amp and sub would play to 16Hz if using an aftermarket head unit.

As for adding new speakers too, this time, when we installed my low impedance Focal speakers into my 2017 WRX the HK amp could not drive them properly and they sounded thin and tinny. The HK amp wants to see a higher speaker impedance/load. That's why I went with a 5-channel JL 7005W amp this time, to drive the new door speakers and subwoofer.

The problem is figuring out where to tap into the HU output, especially when you have an HK amp installed like me. It needs to be tapped after any speaker signal exits the telematics DCM, and yet my telematics is still messed up, meaning my line-level converter may still be too low of a resistance. We hope to work this out tomorrow, as the first installed use POS converters and we're going to use a much better signal processor.
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 03:49 AM   #7
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

My journey with upgrading the factory audio is closer to the end.

I got the AudioControl LC7i 6-channel sound processor installed on the outputs of the 7" Starlink Harmon Kardon sound system today, and so far it sounds much better than the previous cheap LOC when driving my JL Audio 5-ch amp and Focal Speakers/Kenwood Subs, with a few small issues remaining.

Per another thread, "...the LC2i is so much more than a regular LOC. The stock HU has pretty bad rolloff in the lower frequencies above 25/40 volume and the LC2i can make up for that." That seems to be the case except my HU goes up to 60/60, and with the LC7i "AccuBass" compensation there is no more bass roll-off when the 7" Starlink Head Unit is cranked up to max.

(1) I still need to get the front/rear/sub volume levels adjusted for better overall balance. The installer has set the rears to play a quite a bit louder than the front and subs. I can do this myself, but for now I have the fader set at 75% toward the front speakers to keep it balanced front/rear.

With the same speakers and subs in the 2015 Forester XT, that car is about 9-10dB louder at max via Pioneer head unit > JL amp, so I know that I have room to turn up the gain on the JL amp's Front and Sub channels (the rear doors are already quite loud at max, but not the others).

(2) For some reason, if I fade the head unit to play only the rear speakers I get no output from my dual 10" subwoofers, which only play with the front channel. That is completely different from what I thought the AudioControl is supposed to do by summing up all the inputs internally and removing the factory crossovers, before dividing up the output into 6 new audio channels out (Front Rt, Front Lt, Rear Rt, Rear Lt, Sub Rt, Sub Lt).

So, I think he's only using front/rear outputs of the factory stereo, and he set the LC7i for "automode" where it takes the channel-2 input and sends it out of both channel-2 and channel-3 outputs. i.e. he may not have been able to use the factory subwoofer output on channel-3 input, and I have to ask him why that didn't work.

This could explain why he set the rear speakers much louder than the front, so that my default settings would be to have the fader set at 75% towards the front in order for all 4 doors to play the same volume. Because that way if I wanted to make the back doors (channel-1) louder than the front doors (channel-2), but have the Sub (channel-3) continue to pump out the bass at the same level, I could move the fader towards the rear and not affect the sub output (not until I go below 50% on the front doors).

(3) I think the installer changed my amp settings and set the JL Audio amp to cross over closer to 100-120Hz in the doors, and I want them to play down to 50-80Hz. I can also change this myself at the amp.

(4) I want to install an AudioControl ACR-1 bass control knob on the LC7i, so that I can use it as a bass EQ or to adjust the bass output for times when I have to swap to my smaller less efficient single 10" Kenwood sub. Often I need to pack the back of my car to the max which requires using my smaller sub box. I have a spot next to the front console's 12v cigarette lighter jack where I want to put it - a spot where the first installer already cut a hole for the Pioneer 8200 HDMI and USB-1 (that isn't connected now).

(5) The new installer discovered that the first installer cracked the GPS antenna plug that goes into the DCM, when he tried to force the dual-DIN Pioneer and DCM into the same spot. That's why the Starlink Connected Services location tracking doesn't work. They are ordering a new GPS antenna from Subaru for overnight delivery Thursday.

(6) The black plastic cover for the rear center seat belt retractor is still loose and buzzing with high bass, and the fuse holder in the engine bay is not secured tightly (needs moar zip ties).

Whew. I still wonder if I shoulda just left it stock and kept the bass at -3 like I had it before, or done the OEMaudioplus.com upgrade kit where the DSP amp kit would fix the muddy bass and the new tweeters would make the highs a little crisper.

In the WRX the "mid-fi quality" Focal component speakers don't sound their best when the 6.5" woofer is down in the door and the 1" tweeter is 3 feet away in the dash - the windshield reflections make them slightly bright and I have to turn the treble down to -1 or -2 now. They sound much better when the tweeter is in the same panel as the woofer, and when we used them with the Pioneer head unit we used a microphone and the Pioneer autoEQ and time-alignment to improve the sound.
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 04:20 AM   #8
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

The install video on this page looks sooo easy I could have done it myself - it's for a 2015 WRX, but the dropdown lets you select the 2017 Starlink with HK option http://shop.oemaudioplus.com/STI-WRX...YS45Q-1500.htm
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 01:00 PM   #9
Uccracing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 432887
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImprezaRS dot com View Post
The install video on this page looks sooo easy I could have done it myself - it's for a 2015 WRX, but the dropdown lets you select the 2017 Starlink with HK option http://shop.oemaudioplus.com/STI-WRX...YS45Q-1500.htm
Man you went through a nightmare for all of that.

The best way to fix all of that, is to keep the factory HK H/U and contact Sandy at OEM Audio Plus, and have him make you harness! He will make it to connect from your factory HK amp to your aftermarket amp/sub. It is all done nice and neat and is 100% plug N Play!! Sandy is literally the ONLY place that I know of in the world that can make it work without a LOC and going full amps for all speakers... I went down this road and did a ***** ton of research before I touched anything, and I am so glad I did as I have a plug and play setup, running a JL Sub/amp with HK H/U.
Uccracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 06:36 PM   #10
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

Okay, the ACR-1 bass control is installed and works, but I got too freaking cold in the garage to finish adjusting the Lc7i output levels or even touch the cross-overs, as it's about 38 degrees in there while it dumps snow outside, and my hands were numb.

I slowly tweaked the output levels and checked it, then made more adjustments, but it's a pain because it's under the driver seat and I have to move the seat back to listen properly. The F/R speaker levels are much closer now, and I just need to move the driver seat forward again to get to the unit and increase the front and sub just one more time. Then I have to adjust the crossovers in the JL amp under the passenger seat.

Oh, and max volume is 62/62, not 60. I played a silent track from a test CD to see how high the head unit goes. Our goal is to not turn up the amp's input gain (or LC7i output levels) so high that if some numbskull valet or mechanic goes to max that we won't fry the speakers from clipping.

The issue with the LC7i in "automode" and sending ch-2 out of both ch-2 and ch-3 outputs can be addressed when I get the Starlink antenna replaced tomorrow - I do see that the sub input on channel-3 is connected, so the installer may have just forgotten to change the internal jumpers.

The LC7i Accubass seems to be set perfectly, and it flattens the frequency response all the way up to max volume, despite the head unit's roll-off as the volume goes up. I'll use the test CD later to see if I can still play down to 20Hz like before.

After that, all that leaves is the Starlink antenna install, and insulating the rear center seat belt tensioner from buzzing when exposed to subwoofer vibration.
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 06:37 PM   #11
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccracing View Post
Man you went through a nightmare for all of that.

The best way to fix all of that, is to keep the factory HK H/U and contact Sandy at OEM Audio Plus, and have him make you harness! He will make it to connect from your factory HK amp to your aftermarket amp/sub. It is all done nice and neat and is 100% plug N Play!! Sandy is literally the ONLY place that I know of in the world that can make it work without a LOC and going full amps for all speakers... I went down this road and did a ***** ton of research before I touched anything, and I am so glad I did as I have a plug and play setup, running a JL Sub/amp with HK H/U.
What does Sandy do about the factory head unit roll-off as the volume levels go above 25-30?

I am using the 7" Starlink head unit and HK system now, but instead of Sandy's harness I have the AudioControl LC7i between the factory system and the JL amp.
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 07:14 PM   #12
Uccracing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 432887
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

The issue is that you are putting a LOC on a signal that is a solid signal vs one that is up/down (where a LOC will pick up that data and transmit to rca's). His harness plugs straight into the HK amp/harness and runs out from there. Now the logistics of what it does, I am not sure, that is why I paid him lol! Plug and play, so worth it!
Uccracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 07:30 PM   #13
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccracing View Post
The issue is that you are putting a LOC on a signal that is a solid signal vs one that is up/down (where a LOC will pick up that data and transmit to rca's). His harness plugs straight into the HK amp/harness and runs out from there. Now the logistics of what it does, I am not sure, that is why I paid him lol! Plug and play, so worth it!
I would just think that Sandy's harness would still need the 32-bit DSP amp to correct the frequency response changes the HU makes when turning the volume up, rather than sending the HK system's crappy signal directly to the JL Audio amp. The LC7i is not just a LOC - it corrects the frequency response in the signal out of the factory stereo before it goes to my JL Audio amp.

I've been told that the signal from the 7" Starlink HU to HK amp (and from HK to speakers) is not a "solid signal" aka simply data, but is indeed a speaker or line level analog and powered signal that can drive speakers, just that one is more powerful than the other. If it's different in the 2017, I'd think that the LC7i would not work because the signal going into it would be too weak. Speaker line-out has a much higher current to drive low-impedance speakers than RCA out, which feeds a low current signal into a high-impedance amp input.

Basically I was told that the HK amp is simply a booster amp like those we used back in the 70's and 80's where we would run the car stereo into a bigger amp with a 10 band graphic EQ, and hang that unit under the dashboard so we could adjust the settings. It would sit between the speaker outputs of the factory head unit and the speakers, like a line-level converter + amp.

Is that wrong?
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 07:40 PM   #14
Uccracing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 432887
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Honestly, I would shoot Sandy an email, super great guy/company and very informative. I have yet to hear of a single person ever installing an Aftermarket Amp off of the HK setup, unless rewiring all speakers and running amps for all. OEM Audio + is literally the only company that I have heard of, that can do it, without cutting into the system entirely. I researched for a very long time, no local shops will touch it, nothing.
Uccracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 09:34 PM   #15
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Limited
2015 Forester XT, Tribeca

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccracing View Post
Honestly, I would shoot Sandy an email, super great guy/company and very informative. I have yet to hear of a single person ever installing an Aftermarket Amp off of the HK setup, unless rewiring all speakers and running amps for all. OEM Audio + is literally the only company that I have heard of, that can do it, without cutting into the system entirely. I researched for a very long time, no local shops will touch it, nothing.
Okay, but it's a bit too late for that now...
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 01:23 PM   #16
Uccracing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 432887
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImprezaRS dot com View Post
Okay, but it's a bit too late for that now...
Yes, but if there is anyone that can help with what things are, it is him.
Uccracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 08:55 PM   #17
hekler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 388366
Join Date: Apr 2014
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2016 SUBARU WRX(cvt)
CBS w/eyesight

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccracing View Post
Man you went through a nightmare for all of that.

The best way to fix all of that, is to keep the factory HK H/U and contact Sandy at OEM Audio Plus, and have him make you harness! He will make it to connect from your factory HK amp to your aftermarket amp/sub. It is all done nice and neat and is 100% plug N Play!! Sandy is literally the ONLY place that I know of in the world that can make it work without a LOC and going full amps for all speakers... I went down this road and did a ***** ton of research before I touched anything, and I am so glad I did as I have a plug and play setup, running a JL Sub/amp with HK H/U.
I am at OEM and Sandy is installing his system in my 16 limited as I type!! Cant wait to use it. Sandy is a genius given his background and skill set. I am getting his plug and play system 500+ for the HK. He is working on demo video now
hekler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.