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Old 08-12-2019, 07:19 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Tesla Owner Sues Company For Alleged Battery Fraud

Tesla Owner Sues Company For Alleged Battery Fraud
Iri
A Tesla owner has filed a suit against the carmaker claiming the company used a software update to deliberately reduce the battery range of his vehicle in an attempt to avoid a recall due to faults in these batteries.

Reuters reports the suit was filed earlier this week, with the plaintiff seeking class action status on the grounds that “thousands” of other owners of older Model S and X cars could have been affected. In some cases, according to the allegations, the range reduction came in at as much as 40 miles.

“A very small percentage of owners of older Model S and Model X vehicles may have noticed a small reduction in range when charging to a maximum state of charge following a software update designed to improve battery longevity,” the company said in response to the allegations, as quoted by Reuters.

The software update the plaintiffs and other Tesla owners are blaming for the batteries’ range reduction was released in May and drivers complained online that this devalued the cars they had bought for more money and supposedly longer range.

“Under the guise of ‘safety’ and increasing the ‘longevity’ of the batteries of the Class Vehicles, Tesla fraudulently manipulated its software with the intent to avoid its duties and legal obligations to customers to fix, repair, or replace the batteries of the Class Vehicles, all of which Tesla knew were defective, yet failed to inform its customers of the defects,” according to the lawsuit.

This is a change in the usual negative news about Tesla, which focuses on its production and delivery performance and cash-burning habit. Its autopilot system has also been blamed for a few accidents, which have prompted legal action. The battery range issue, though obviously not new, opens up another venue for unhappy customers to vent their unhappiness with the company.

By Irina Slav
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:42 AM   #2
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Title reads like Musk is doing the suing.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:26 PM   #3
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Title reads like Musk is doing the suing.
I thought the same thing. Was wondering what he was up to now, suing himself.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:30 PM   #4
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Tesla Owner Sues Company For Alleged Battery Fraud


By Irina Slav
Clearly the Russian Bots are at it again. When will we be rid of this Russian disinformation campaign against American manufacturing?
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:39 PM   #5
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So an update caused the batteries to reduce mileage by 40 miles? I haven’t had coffee yet so kinda confused here.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #6
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So an update caused the batteries to reduce mileage by 40 miles? I haven’t had coffee yet so kinda confused here.
That's what the article is saying. To "improve the longevity of the battery" the update reduced the level of maximum charge. It resulted in a decrease of 40 miles of range, pissing off people that paid extra money for longer range.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #7
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My understanding is that some owners who used the battery more aggressively, charging to higher state of charge and supercharging often, degraded the battery more. This had a side effect of slightly increasing the risk of some kind of catastrophic failure (totally dead battery or maybe even a fire). I suspect this is related to a few recent fires on Model S cars. As a countermeasure Tesla released a software update to cap the max charge so that the battery doesn't experience further accelerated wear.

It's trading protection from catastrophic failure for less usable total range. It sounds like a murky situation in terms of cause and effect though. On my Model 3 Long Range I believe the warranty is something like 125,000 miles for the battery, guaranteeing at least 70% life.

Certainly the best thing for the customer is to replace the battery, but Tesla is probably not under an obligation to do so, and obviously they are under financial pressure.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:49 PM   #8
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Doesn't even make the top 5 for potentially damaging lawsuits against them, but arghx7 said exactly what I've heard and suspected as well, albeit with a larger weighting on reducing spontaneous fires.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:32 PM   #9
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well said all of you.. .this is what you get when you buy into becoming a beta tester for an electronic. ARGHX7 summarized it perfectly. Reduced range to cover extreme usage is probably the right explanation, but this is the difference between Tesla and an established car maker. Ford probably tests its F-150 for the questionable actions of the 6-sigma Cletus that will buy it. Tesla saved some money by avoiding those kinds of out of limits tests. This is the result.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:40 PM   #10
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Tesla hasn't been building cars for decades and their battery tech is frontier stuff. The dip****s who buy Teslas and then sue Tesla for these types of things should know this. Should is the operative word. Or is it dip****s?
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:35 PM   #11
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6-sigma Cletus
Stealing this!
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:35 PM   #12
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Tesla hasn't been building cars for decades and their battery tech is frontier stuff. The dip****s who buy Teslas and then sue Tesla for these types of things should know this. Should is the operative word. Or is it dip****s?
Eh, disagree. The battery drain on the iPhone lawsuit is pretty similar to this class action. The customers shouldn’t be the ones left on the hook for this especially when they bought a vehicle with a claimed mileage rating and within a blink of an eye due to update, suddenly see 40 miles of range taken from them.

Tesla should have to replace the battery pack at Tesla’s expense.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:41 PM   #13
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I want to call people dip****s. This is how it happened.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:23 PM   #14
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^



There goes my afternoon cocktail, all over the computer screen.









(it's water)
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:49 PM   #15
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^



There goes my afternoon cocktail, all over the computer screen.









(it's water)
I was about to say, since when did you pick up the drink again?

I really need to stop... eventually
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:04 AM   #16
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^



There goes my afternoon cocktail, all over the computer screen.









(it's water)
Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:52 AM   #17
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The early model S's definitely had more issues. I know they were known for electric motor failures for example.

If there's one thing I've learned about class action lawsuits, it's that they take forever and the lawyers take all the money.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #18
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Eh, disagree. The battery drain on the iPhone lawsuit is pretty similar to this class action. The customers shouldn’t be the ones left on the hook for this especially when they bought a vehicle with a claimed mileage rating and within a blink of an eye due to update, suddenly see 40 miles of range taken from them.

Tesla should have to replace the battery pack at Tesla’s expense.
This is what will catch Tesla. Any other OEM with a problem issues a TSB or a recall to fix it. Diesels weren't as clean as advertised. "Fixing" them reduced fuel efficiency. People got paid and / or cars got replaced. Tesla reducing charge cap and range to address longevity is degradation of the advertised and sold product. Either they need to replace the battery pack with something that can handle the advertised range and longevity or they need to reimburse owners for the loss in performance and value.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:59 AM   #19
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Degradation? Yeah my cars are old and don’t perform as when they were new. Mileage slowly dropped over the years too. Time to take the high road and lawyer up for my suffering?
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:41 AM   #20
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Degradation? Yeah my cars are old and don’t perform as when they were new. Mileage slowly dropped over the years too. Time to take the high road and lawyer up for my suffering?
To be clear - this wasn't a slow loss of range over time or normal battery degradation, this was a software update that reduced range by 40 miles overnight that owners could not opt out of. It would be like if you went to bed knowing you can get 300 miles out of a 15 gallon tank and while you were sleeping the manufacturer came in and reduced the size of your gas tank, and now you only get 260 miles and have a 13 gallon tank, and you have no recourse or say in the matter.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:58 AM   #21
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The article only mentions these are older vehicles. Actually only Tesla’s official response mentions it. Very little detail offered by the author. Does Tesla not have a warranty period?
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:32 PM   #22
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The article only mentions these are older vehicles. Actually only Tesla’s official response mentions it. Very little detail offered by the author. Does Tesla not have a warranty period?
It doesn’t matter if it’s out of warranty. At a certain point, those specific batteries are now unsafe and can result in explosion / fire. To remedy this, Tesla without informing customers prior sent an update which reduced mileage by 40. They should be responsible for replacing batteries that could be potentially unsafe.

Also, the lawsuit is stating that Tesla knew about this problem and kinda covered it up and then shady fixed it by reducing a customers range. The manufacturer directly made the change / impact to reduce mileage in an instant, it wasn’t a slow drain over time.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:27 PM   #23
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I guess I’m not seeing where Tesla is on the hook being Subaru refused to cover my turbo when it took a **** at 70k miles. Had Subaru managed to reduce output and save the turbo from eating itself and the engine with an over air update, I would have taken that route. Not sue Subaru for doing it even though all their turbos had a knack for grenading right after warranty was up. Being sued for reduced range is now the same as Tesla had come to their house and taken the batteries out and not replaced them at all.

Tesla made their bed with the whackos. Eat cake with them Elon.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:04 AM   #24
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I guess I’m not seeing where Tesla is on the hook being Subaru refused to cover my turbo when it took a **** at 70k miles. Had Subaru managed to reduce output and save the turbo from eating itself and the engine with an over air update, I would have taken that route. Not sue Subaru for doing it even though all their turbos had a knack for grenading right after warranty was up. Being sued for reduced range is now the same as Tesla had come to their house and taken the batteries out and not replaced them at all.

Tesla made their bed with the whackos. Eat cake with them Elon.
Well, for starters your turbo didn’t lose a risk of igniting and exploding your vehicle like these specific batteries could. I don’t think your looking at the entirety but instead are just focused on loss of mileage in addition to several other things.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:50 AM   #25
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I guess I’m not seeing where Tesla is on the hook being Subaru refused to cover my turbo when it took a **** at 70k miles. Had Subaru managed to reduce output and save the turbo from eating itself and the engine with an over air update, I would have taken that route. Not sue Subaru for doing it even though all their turbos had a knack for grenading right after warranty was up. Being sued for reduced range is now the same as Tesla had come to their house and taken the batteries out and not replaced them at all.

Tesla made their bed with the whackos. Eat cake with them Elon.
Remember Takata airbags? Subaru had to swap out the passenger airbag in my then 13 year old Subaru that was way out of warranty; SOA had to provide a rental for the nearly 3 months I waited for my airbag to be replaced, because it was a safety issue and my son rides behind the passenger seat.

Safety issues are no laughing matter, if a manufacturer installs something that becomes a safety issue, typically, they have to replace it, regardless of warranty status or if the car is on it's fifth owner who has slammed it to the ground and put a bosozoku exhaust system and a park bench for a wing on it.

if the fix affects an aspect of the vehicle, the owner is typically compensated.
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