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Old 08-21-2014, 03:02 AM   #26
geeman789
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i have learned alot from those threads; its just that they turn into pissing contests and i guess i had hoped that wouldn't happen here since the idea is for this thread to be a place to post and compare UOAs...i think US probably knows what he's talking about; but he has no concept of how to bring people over into his camp. how information is delivered is just as important as the content. all that aside, this is a new motor for us. recommending what worked in the past for this new application is silly (throw some rotella in there bro - or mobil 1 sucks, etc - yes we've heard it all before). so in a way, we get to figure it out all over again; maybe these UOAs will help us do that
The downside to running a thicker oil, like a ROTELLA T6 5w40 or M1 0w40 is, ummmmm, really, there isn't a downside. Might cost you a few tenths of a mpg, and maybe a couple of horsepower, but otherwise, no downside.

Remember, oil gets thinner as it warms up. A 30 grade oil at 25*c is 10 + times thicker than a 40 grade is at 100*c, and the engine runs just fine... so every time you start your car cold, your oil is wayyyyyy thicker than it is at operating temps, until the engine (and oil...) warms up. And it doesn't hurt anything...

The UOA showing the factory fill oil thinning down to a mid 20 grade oil would scare the bejesus out of me if that was my car. Now, run the car HARD for any period of time, get the oil really hot, and how thin is the oil now...!?!?

And I found this interesting...

A Mustang GT uses 5w20 oil, like so many other engines now do...

However, get one with the track pack option, and the oil spec'd is now 5w50. Not 5w30, or even a 5w40, but a 50 grade.

Same engine...!

Interesting...
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:03 AM   #27
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
Are you referring to this note on 11-15?



"NOTE: Engine oil viscosity (thickness) affects fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine."



I ask you then.. What classifies as "hotter" weather? I can see if you're tracking your car you'd probably consider putting in 5W-40 but unless I see oil temps that go much higher than they are now I will not use anything other than 5W-30 until these UOAs tell me otherwise.



And yes, the manual specifically states that 5W-30 is the recommended viscosity but 5W-40 is allowed for replenishment.

You have asked the $60,000 question because "higher viscosity" is not defined. What likely happened was that SoA missed this when they revised the owner's manual for the 2011 model year and removed the chart showing 5W-40 and defining severe conditions.

And note that the manual states that "5W-40 conventional" is allowed for replenishment and that doesn't exist (although there is no "standard" for synthetic and it's basically a marketing term).

-Dennis


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Old 08-21-2014, 12:34 PM   #28
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It is interesting that the manual says "5W-40 conventional". Oops.

And geeman, to say a 30 weight is 10 times thicker @25C than a 40 weight @100C is like saying water is wet. No S*** it is! How about that 40 weight at startup in winter in the northeast region of the US? Would you run it then? That is not a good situation.

The manual does have a bar in the recommended oil section that says "5W-40" but they really don't reference it. I would say I agree with the last post saying that the "track pack" Stang uses a higher grade because it's intended for for the track, hence the name of the package. That said, I would never run a 40 weight as a DD in this Rex unless I lived in a super hot climate or I was tracking my car for the day.

EDIT: Not at least until I get the results back that prove a 30 weight synthetic is a bad idea in these engines. At that time, I will gladly stand corrected.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:38 AM   #29
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I'm at around 5k miles now. Did my first oil change at 3k. I currently have Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus. I couldn't find Ultra anywhere! t plan to run it for 3k and send it in for UOA. I'll tweak my intervals base on the report but not exceeding Subaru's recommendation for warranty purposes.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #30
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I'm at around 5k miles now. Did my first oil change at 3k. I currently have Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus. I couldn't find Ultra anywhere! t plan to run it for 3k and send it in for UOA. I'll tweak my intervals base on the report but not exceeding Subaru's recommendation for warranty purposes.
I look forward to your results since I ran the Ultra Platinum and you ran the regular Platinum. It will be interesting to see if there is enough of a durability and/or quality difference to justify the price of the Ultra Platinum. Based on reading, the Ultra seems to have a better cleaning capability. Realistically, I'm not sure that matters.

I bought my Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 on Amazon and picked up OEM filters and crush washers from the local dealership.

http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-550040865-6PK-Ultra-Platinum-Synthetic/dp/B00JMCCGDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408721142&sr=8-1&keywords=ultra+platinum+5w-30
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:26 PM   #31
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quantum13, did you end up sending in your sample? Did you get results back yet?
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:39 AM   #32
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quantum13, did you end up sending in your sample? Did you get results back yet?
i only just took the sample this weekend. oil had 1975 miles on it. still looked really good - not black at all. will send it off this week.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:25 AM   #33
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I'm coming up on 5000 miles on my car and factory oil fill. I'm going to change it next chance I get. Zero consumption, looks clean.

I already have a jug of Mobile 1 5W30 ready (got a great deal) so per NASIOC my car should completely disintegrate any second now. I think I'll do at least two UOA's, factory [email protected] and this Mobil [email protected]
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:14 AM   #34
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i want to say if you ever get a great deal on Mobil 1 again - there is apparently a slightly heavier weight that they say works much better - i believe it is 5w-40 Mobil1 that you see much less hate for. FWIW - i'm running AmsOil XL 5w-30 so i got no skin in the game as far as Mobil goes. you might find mention of that other weight in the oil threads; im sticking with the best oil that still meets all the requirements in the owners manual. all that aside - seriously - your Mobil 1 will be just fine. do the UOAs - with fact based evidence you dont have to count on keyboard warriors!
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:55 PM   #35
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I'm coming up on 5000 miles on my car and factory oil fill. I'm going to change it next chance I get. Zero consumption, looks clean.



I already have a jug of Mobile 1 5W30 ready (got a great deal) so per NASIOC my car should completely disintegrate any second now. I think I'll do at least two UOA's, factory [email protected] and this Mobil [email protected]

For $10 each, I'll do virtual uoa's for you and come VERY close to Blackstone's results. I'll even throw in goofy comments at no extra charge.

-Dennis
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #36
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Performed 1st oil change on my 2015 Rex yesterday with around 1400 miles on the odo. Factory oil came out a nice poopy brown color and measured out to approx 5.5 qts so it seems no oil is being lost at this point.

I used oem oil and filter for this change. Interestingly it took closer to 6qts to get the dipstick to read full...anyone else notice that? I first filled exactly 5.4qts per the manual, but it was showing 75% between low and full, so I just added until the dipstick read full.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:44 PM   #37
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For $10 each, I'll do virtual uoa's for you and come VERY close to Blackstone's results. I'll even throw in goofy comments at no extra charge.

-Dennis
Could you give me an example of a typical analysis? In particular, I'd like to hear that I did a way better job of breaking my engine in than the average schmuck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzoa1 View Post
Performed 1st oil change on my 2015 Rex yesterday with around 1400 miles on the odo. Factory oil came out a nice poopy brown color and measured out to approx 5.5 qts so it seems no oil is being lost at this point.

I used oem oil and filter for this change. Interestingly it took closer to 6qts to get the dipstick to read full...anyone else notice that? I first filled exactly 5.4qts per the manual, but it was showing 75% between low and full, so I just added until the dipstick read full.
If it was still reading right at level after running the engine, then you're fine. I'm assuming everything was done on the level.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by izzoa1 View Post
Performed 1st oil change on my 2015 Rex yesterday with around 1400 miles on the odo. Factory oil came out a nice poopy brown color and measured out to approx 5.5 qts so it seems no oil is being lost at this point.

I used oem oil and filter for this change. Interestingly it took closer to 6qts to get the dipstick to read full...anyone else notice that? I first filled exactly 5.4qts per the manual, but it was showing 75% between low and full, so I just added until the dipstick read full.
Based on my experience with my Impreza 2.5i, Foreseter 2.5X, and my WRX, filling the engine with the specified QTY seems to be the best.

When I put exactly 5.4 qts into my 15 Rex it showed up just below half on the dipstick, which is fine. After driving around and letting the car sit for about an hour, I checked the oil and the dipstick showed up at the "full" dot/hole. This has been the case for all of my Subarus, including my WRX.

I know that a little bit overfilled may be OK but from now on I would just stick with the 5.4 since it has worked for me. Just make sure you check your level after your engine is warm and has settled for a little while to be sure you didn't overfill it too much.

EDIT: I also only used only OEM filters on my Subarus.

Last edited by wiUFsh; 09-04-2014 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Filters
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:27 PM   #39
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Could you give me an example of a typical analysis? In particular, I'd like to hear that I did a way better job of breaking my engine in than the average schmuck.

You can look at the other uoa thread or use google to search for WRX uoa's. They're all pretty much the same. All factory fills show high silicon from sealers and sand casted parts, moly will be high from assembly lube and the factory Idemitsu oil, ZDDP will be higher than the Idemitsu that you get from the dealer, and the viscosity will be a 20 grade.

Some of the wear metals will still be high for the first 8-12k miles because that's how long it will take for a full break-in. Blackstone will tell you that the shearing isn't hurting anything and you've got a great wearing Subaru.

$10 please!

Edit: I googled and found this one:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2429369

-Dennis
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:06 PM   #40
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That search is for a 2013 WRX. Different engine. Please let this thread play out so we can figure out what oil is best in the 2015 WRX.

I want my $10 back.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:37 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
I'm coming up on 5000 miles on my car and factory oil fill. I'm going to change it next chance I get. Zero consumption, looks clean. I already have a jug of Mobile 1 5W30 ready (got a great deal) so per NASIOC my car should completely disintegrate any second now. I think I'll do at least two UOA's, factory [email protected] and this Mobil [email protected]
Not any second... but soon. That oil takes a 1000 or so miles to shear down enough to be a problem. Or not. Maybe... sometimes... ?

Why risk it... oil = $ , engine = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

You get the point.....!
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:49 PM   #42
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Not any second... but soon. That oil takes a 1000 or so miles to shear down enough to be a problem. Or not. Maybe... sometimes... ? Why risk it... oil = $ , engine = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You get the point.....!
It is not the " Mobil 1 " that is the problem. It is the 5w30 Resource Conserving that is the problem. This class of oils, all brands, tends to quickly shear down to a 20 grade ... that may or may not be a problem on 2015's...?!

Find a non- resource conserving 5w30, like Amsoil HDD 5w30, or Mobil 1 ESP 5w30. Both are a diesel spec euro oil, and are far less likely to shear down. They are also at the thick end of the 5w30 allowable viscosity.

All 5w30's are NOT the same...
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:24 PM   #43
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There are plenty of threads that already discuss what you seem to be an expert on. Please keep this to facts that have been proven from FA20DIT results from the WRX. Until we see some results it's all just speculation.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:29 PM   #44
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at this risk of this turning into an oil thread again - there ARE some RC oils that exhibit reasonable resistance to shear, such as AmsOil OE/XL. those meet all specs in the owners manual and do reasonably well in that department. but yes, in general i would agree that a non-RC oil will be less likely to shear down. AmsOil Signature is one of those...though the regular Mobil 1 5w30 is apparently pretty bad about that...but not all Mobil 1 weights are. i read through most of that disaster of an Oil Thread; the name calling there is embarrassing to the community so i wouldn't necessarily recommend it though there is alot of helpful info there on this topic.

Last edited by quantum13; 09-05-2014 at 09:43 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:30 PM   #45
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There are plenty of threads that already discuss what you seem to be an expert on. Please keep this to facts that have been proven from FA20DIT results from the WRX. Until we see some results it's all just speculation.
yes - this. i really dont want this thread to go down that road. let's keep it to UOAs and specific experience.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:07 AM   #46
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$10 please!
I strapped a Hammy to a pigeon and pointed him in the general direction of NJ. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman789 View Post
Not any second... but soon.
I feel ya, but if 5k on the factory oil messes up the engine then I'll consider it a lucky break fix now while still under warranty and get rid of it, that's a bogus design.

I decided if I do a UOA, it will be for the second change which will be Mobil 1 5W30. I suspect that if this viscosity drop that people mention is so typical, Subaru has accounted for this in the design of their engine and the specification of the oil. I would guess that the people that have had mechanical problems stemming from 5W30 also tend to have tuned cars? Which won't be an issue for me.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:21 AM   #47
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
That search is for a 2013 WRX. Different engine. Please let this thread play out so we can figure out what oil is best in the 2015 WRX.



I want my $10 back.

It doesn't matter which model year WRX that is. The first few uoa's will all pretty much look the same.

And you cannot use a $30 uoa to determine which oil is best. Sorry, no refund!

Edit: Actually, if you compare the metallic anti-wear additive levels (moly, calcium, ZDDP), the additive package in the '15 uoa looks weaker and the viscosity is even thinner than in the '13.

-Dennis


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Last edited by bluesubie; 09-05-2014 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:50 AM   #48
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a single UOA doesn't tell you what's the best but a series of them will provide factual evidence of how a type of oil lasts in that particular car. Ideally, the owner does the UOA two or three times in the life of the oil so we can see how it is holding up - though that gets expensive. hopefully enough people do this with different oils and post them here so that the totality of the results will give real evidence for people to look at instead of the name calling and take my word for it that we see in other threads.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:26 AM   #49
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It doesn't matter which model year WRX that is. The first few uoa's will all pretty much look the same.

And you cannot use a $30 uoa to determine which oil is best. Sorry, no refund!

Edit: Actually, if you compare the metallic anti-wear additive levels (moly, calcium, ZDDP), the additive package in the '15 uoa looks weaker and the viscosity is even thinner than in the '13.

-Dennis


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You can use a UOA to determine if the oil has not sheared or not. In this respect we can determine which oil will hold up the best in this new engine.

I find it amusing how you use the term "weaker". That is a subjective comment that has no fact based evidence for this new engine. Perhaps the engineers who have designed the FA20DIT have determine the extra additives are unnecessary. I say again, please let this thread play out and please stick to the facts. Once a few UOAs have been posted we can address these topics.
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by wiUFsh View Post
You can use a UOA to determine if the oil has not sheared or not. In this respect we can determine which oil will hold up the best in this new engine.

I find it amusing how you use the term "weaker". That is a subjective comment that has no fact based evidence for this new engine. Perhaps the engineers who have designed the FA20DIT have determine the extra additives are unnecessary. I say again, please let this thread play out and please stick to the facts. Once a few UOAs have been posted we can address these topics.
But what if an oil that is showing a higher viscosity is showing it due to oxidation? That's something that a Blackstone uoa won't show you and oxidation is not good.

Why is it amusing that I said the additive package is weaker? The '15 uoa has less ZDDP, moly, and a lower viscosity based on the uoa's so that is not subjective. Actually, I consider any RC oil weaker in terms of anti-wear, High Temp High Shear, and viscosity stability in comparison to Euro oils. That's why it's impossible for an RC oil to meet European ACEA A3 specs as well as Porsche A40, VW502, MB 229.x, BMW LL, etc. This site is good for comparing specs. https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAd...l/default.html

Not that you can even believe the numbers that you get on a Blackstone uoa anyway. I've seen more than one uoa where RT6 ZDDP levels come back lower than an RC oil, which is impossible. Brad Penn talks about BS's ZDDP readings on their web site.
http://www.penngrade1.com/zinc.aspx
Watch this thread for future factory fill uoa's and notice the additive levels.

This article about uoa's is excellent reading:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

-Dennis
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