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Old 03-01-2004, 08:36 AM   #301
fastlane
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Being a noob at UTEC tuning I was a bit concerned when I got a couple of knocks events this morning when I hit a patch of sand and my tires broke free. I haven't had a chance to pull a log off the UTEC. What typically happens during wheelspin in the higer RPMs to cause engine knock? Too much timing without enough load? I want to adjust this condition because I know it will occur again.
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Old 03-01-2004, 04:39 PM   #302
Si2WRX
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Drivetrain noise caused false knock.
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Old 03-01-2004, 05:43 PM   #303
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I thought of that as well since my knocklink didn't pick up anything unusual. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-02-2004, 09:56 AM   #304
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Default Phase 2 Update & Phase 3

1. I've leaned out the A/F from 1.5-4K rpm. I've looked at my EGT and everything seems more than normal. I've use Log 1 to monitor any knocks and I'm all clear. I use to fell "pull" at 3.5K rpm but now I start feeling "pull" at 2.5K rpm; I'm also getting better mileage.

2. I looked at the weather and it should be in the 60-70s+ over the next week. I decided to use the winter timing baseline + adjusted values and have the UTEC control timing as of this morning. I added 3 degrees from 2.5-3.75K rpm and 5 degrees from 4K-7K rpm. I made 2x 4th gear runs from 3.5-6K rpm at 60+ degrees and "0" knock. I compared the ECU vs. UTEC timing and I was running on average 2 degrees "more" than what the ECU was planning and no problems.

3. I'm now thinking about adding 2 degrees more to 4-6K rpm and seeing what happens. I noticed that my map is becoming pretty close to a map posted on WRXHackers ... I'm using around 2 degrees less on the timing values just to be safe for now.

4. I now KNOW that weather is a huge variable on timing. I use to not even be able to run the ECU timing values while now at 60s+ degrees, I can run 2+ degrees and still be safe. The tuning continues.
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:57 PM   #305
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Default Humm

1. I've now added back to my base winter timing map ie: 3 degrees from 2.5-3.75K rpm, 7 degrees from 4-6K rpm, and 5 degree from 6.25-7K rpm.

2. I did get a knock count of "4" yesterday around 5250-5500 range so I added back .1 fuel and ran it today and that area was clear. However I got a knock count of "1" today around the 4250-4500 range so I also just added back .1 fuel. I'll run it during lunch today and see what happens. I'm not surprised at these 2 ranges as this "IS" where knock is going to occur.

3. The ironic part of this is that I decided to compare what timing values I'm running now vs. the base Stage 2 timing map from TurboXs. I'm actually now in parallel w/ the timing from 4500-6250 rpm and more timing advance before and after those rpm points. I thought that was kind of funny as I didn't expect it to happen.

4. Weather makes a HUGE difference in the timing values. I'm now running on average 2+ degree more advance than the ECU and almost 0 knock. I'm still playing w/ the fuel in the areas of knock. I have a feeling that once I work out the 4250-4500 & 5250-5500 rpm points, I'll be able to run at least another 1-2 degrees more than what I'm running now.
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Old 03-04-2004, 01:16 PM   #306
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Default Humm ...

1. I've now set the timing to be parallel w/ the base Stage 2 values from 4-6K rpm and a few more degrees before and after that specific rpm range. I did get knock last night during 1x 1st > 2nd shift but never since. I wasn't logging so I didn't see exactly what happened and at what rpm points. I'm had "0" knocks since and running strong, weird.

2. I've also noticed that the ECU is running "really" low values from 3.5-4.5K rpm while the UTEC is running "way" higher values in the same ranges w/out any knock or any problems. Why is the ECU trying to run 5-9 while the UTEC is running 19-23 fine?

3. I still want to find out why it knocked during the 1x 1st > 2nd shift last night. I did a few 3rd gear runs @ 3.5K rpm to 4th @ gear @ 5.5K rpm and "0" knocks even w/ shifts so I'm definitely feeling better.
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Old 03-06-2004, 07:28 AM   #307
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1. I thought about some more aspects of tuning on the road. Since optimal tuning is in 4th, the best results would come from 4th but it's unreasonable since it's too "slow" and doing 128mph+ is "not" safe on local roads. A great test would be from 2.5K-7K rpm in 4th but it's just not feasible. Thus I thought about how many times you'd actually "race" starting @ 2.5rpm in 4th till redline. However we do see 4K rpm in 3rd till redline. Thus we should make the run starting at 2.5K rpm in 3rd till redline then shift into 4th till 6K rpm in 4th; this is much faster but it gives you a more realistic point on how people would drive during "aggressive" situations. This would put load during the 3rd > 4th shift to see if knock may occurr. At the end, you can do a 4th gear run from 2.5K-6K rpm just to make sure boost and timing are right.

2. A/F "IS" the cause of the knocks from the base Stage 2 map. During normal driving temperatures in Ga, 50-80s, we should be able to use the timing map and have no knock. Once it hits between 20-40s, the ECU can run more timing than the UTEC w/ 0 knock. I've been running in the 60-70s w/ more aggressive timing than the base Stage 2 map now and 0 knock after I've had my A/F tunned a few months back. I just happened to start tuning when it was real cold so I didn't see the results I wanted however now things are looking pretty good.

3. I'll definitely have a "winter" & "summer" map as both will have it's temperature ranges ie: 20-50 & 50-80+ respectively. I wish I had a dyno as I'd be done in one setting however the road tuning is definitely way more accurrate.
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Old 03-09-2004, 08:42 AM   #308
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Default Humm ...

1. It seems like the timing does not like to jump more than one step at a time. I've tried to make the timing values from 3.5-6.5K rpm change only in increments of 1. My biggest concern is the knock that now occurs during the 3rd > 4th shift. It's a count of 1-2 but it should be 0. Boost is normal and I was pulling timing in the 4.75-5K rpm range where the knock occurred however I'm still getting knock. I've decided to revert back to the default Stage 2 map timing in the 4-6K rpm range but copy the timing values "but -1" in the 0% load column; there was an earlier debate that the timing values set in the 0% load column "can" reduce shift knocks. If I do a normal run there are 0 knocks from 3-7K rpm.

2. Due to the weather change yet again in Ga where we're seeing the 30s again, I'm hoping to be able to run a UTEC timing map in 40-80s+ degrees.
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Old 03-10-2004, 08:53 AM   #309
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Default Humm ...

1. Driving to work seems so much faster when you're tuning; I guess it's because it makes the driver more "interesting" as you're thinking about all the variables + you're "usually" driving faster.

2. I "think" I stand to be corrected about having 2 different maps in normal Georgia driving. I had problems earlier w/ the knock thus I had the ECU control the timing in "cold" weather ... the ECU seemed to be able to run more timing from 5-7K rpm but things seems to have changed today.

3. I had the A/F tunned to 11:1 from 4.25-7K rpm a while back but never touched the rpm range below the 4.25K point. Recently, I started messing w/ leaning out the A/F from 1.5-4K rpm to gain faster spool up as part of Phase 2. It seems to not only have helped in spool up but during the runs this morning something else good seemed to have occurred. I did a few 3rd gear runs from 4-7K rpm and 0 knocks. Then finally I did a 4th gear run from 3.5-5.75K rpm and I also had 0 knock. The temperature was in the low 30s thus I was expected knock to occurr but it did not. I thought about it more and I think somehow the knock earlier in the cold weather was somehow contributed to the rich A/F in the lower rpm range. Do anyone know anything about my theory?

4. I also noticed that my knocks points from the earlier posts also exactly correlates to the A/F points, the knock(s) occurred in the more "aggressive" A/F values such as -1.8 > -2. I've also realized that tuning the values in .1 increments is slow so now I'm using .2. If I had my own dyno then I could tune more in details but this is a good theory as tuning in 3rd gear runs w/ a final 4th gear run instead of always using 4th gear on the hwy.

5. The map below is the final 4th gear run from this morning in the low 30s. My boost level was planned for the low 50s so I did hit above 16.5psi in some places. I did not do a 3rd > 4th shift this morning so I haven't tested my theory of the A/F in the 4750-5250 rpm range. You can see by the timing values that I'm definitely running stronger due to the higher timing values.


3519 +2.1 3.8 101 40 00 rich +11.1 52.0 +19.0 -1.5 330.00 3.8
3572 +6.8 3.7 101 70 00 rich +10.2 58.0 +19.0 -1.5 330.00 3.7
3611 +11.9 3.7 101 90 00 rich +9.7 58.0 +19.0 -1.5 330.00 3.7
3675 +15.3 3.7 101 90 00 rich +10.7 58.0 +19.0 -1.5 330.00 3.8
3732 +16.6 3.8 101 90 00 rich +11.3 58.0 +19.0 -1.5 325.00 3.7
3796 +16.4 3.9 101 80 00 rich +11.7 59.0 +19.1 -1.5 325.00 3.7
3853 +16.4 3.8 101 90 00 rich +12.3 60.0 +19.4 -1.5 325.00 3.8
3871 +15.7 3.8 101 80 00 rich +12.8 60.0 +19.5 -1.5 325.00 3.8
3940 +15.9 3.9 101 80 00 rich +13.1 62.0 +19.7 -1.5 325.00 3.8
3944 +15.9 3.9 101 90 00 rich +13.8 63.0 +19.9 -1.4 325.00 3.8
4055 +15.7 3.9 101 90 00 rich +13.8 65.0 +20.1 -1.4 325.00 3.9
4100 +16.1 3.9 101 90 00 rich +13.4 66.0 +20.4 -1.1 325.00 3.9
4156 +15.9 4.0 101 80 00 rich +13.5 68.0 +20.6 -0.7 325.00 3.9
4182 +15.9 3.9 101 90 00 rich +13.6 71.0 +20.8 -0.4 325.00 3.9
4230 +15.5 3.9 101 80 00 rich +12.7 73.0 +21.1 -0.1 300.00 4.0
4268 +15.5 4.0 101 80 00 rich +12.4 74.0 +21.3 -0.1 300.00 3.9
4290 +15.9 4.0 101 90 00 rich +12.1 76.0 +21.4 -0.1 300.00 4.0
4351 +15.5 4.0 101 80 00 rich +12.2 77.0 +21.8 -1.4 300.00 3.9
4535 +15.7 4.0 101 80 00 rich +12.4 77.0 +22.0 -0.6 310.00 4.0
4462 +15.7 4.0 101 90 00 rich +12.3 78.0 +22.0 -0.6 310.00 4.0
4522 +15.9 4.0 101 90 00 rich +12.9 80.0 +22.3 -1.0 310.00 4.0
4655 +16.4 4.0 101 90 00 rich +13.0 80.0 +22.3 -1.0 310.00 4.0
4629 +16.1 4.1 102 80 00 rich +13.5 81.0 +22.9 -1.0 310.00 4.0
4623 +16.6 4.1 101 90 00 rich +13.5 80.0 +22.8 -1.6 310.00 4.0
4741 +17.0 4.1 101 100 00 rich +13.8 80.0 +23.1 -1.7 310.00 4.0
4775 +16.8 4.1 101 90 00 rich +14.4 80.0 +23.3 -1.6 310.00 4.0
4866 +17.0 4.1 101 80 00 rich +14.2 82.0 +23.5 -1.6 310.00 4.0
4852 +16.6 4.1 101 90 00 rich +15.2 83.0 +23.7 -1.6 310.00 4.0
4894 +15.7 4.1 101 80 00 rich +15.8 84.0 +23.6 -1.7 310.00 4.0
4880 +16.1 4.1 101 90 00 rich +15.4 85.0 +23.7 -1.8 300.00 4.1
4990 +16.8 4.1 101 100 00 rich +16.6 84.0 +24.0 -1.8 300.00 4.1
5089 +16.6 4.1 100 90 00 rich +14.7 84.0 +24.0 -1.8 300.00 4.1
5020 +16.6 4.2 101 80 00 rich +15.3 85.0 +24.0 -1.8 300.00 4.1
5081 +15.5 4.2 101 80 00 rich +15.2 86.0 +24.0 -1.8 300.00 4.1
5200 +14.5 4.2 101 70 00 rich +15.7 86.0 +24.0 -1.4 330.00 4.1
5274 +14.3 4.2 101 80 00 rich +16.2 87.0 +24.0 -1.4 330.00 4.1
5224 +14.9 4.2 101 90 00 rich +16.2 87.0 +24.0 -1.7 330.00 4.1
5359 +15.5 4.2 100 90 00 rich +16.3 88.0 +24.0 -1.8 330.00 4.1
5367 +16.1 4.2 101 90 00 rich +16.6 88.0 +24.0 -1.6 330.00 4.1
5324 +16.4 4.2 100 90 00 rich +17.0 88.0 +24.0 -1.6 330.00 4.1
5411 +15.9 4.2 101 80 00 rich +17.1 88.0 +24.0 -1.7 330.00 4.1
5482 +15.7 4.2 100 80 00 rich +17.5 89.0 +24.0 -1.3 330.00 4.2
5509 +15.7 4.2 101 90 00 rich +17.7 90.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.2
5574 +15.5 4.2 101 80 00 rich +17.8 90.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.1
5583 +15.1 4.2 101 80 00 rich +17.6 90.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.2
5564 +14.5 4.3 101 70 00 rich +18.1 91.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.2
5592 +13.7 4.3 101 70 00 rich +17.9 91.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.1
5649 +14.1 4.2 101 80 00 rich +17.5 91.0 +24.0 -1.3 350.00 4.2
5678 +14.1 4.3 101 80 00 rich +18.1 91.0 +24.0 -1.7 350.00 4.2
5678 +15.1 4.2 101 80 00 rich +18.4 90.0 +24.0 -1.3 360.00 4.2
5747 +16.1 4.2 101 90 00 rich +21.7 90.0 +24.0 -1.3 360.00 4.1
5837 +16.4 4.3 101 90 00 rich +21.9 91.0 +24.3 -1.3 360.00 4.2
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Old 03-10-2004, 07:43 PM   #310
Division By Zero
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Default

Wow, this thread is out of control Anyhow, the first thing I noticed about your timing was that mid range advance seemed high and without knock. Then I noticed your boost levels.

Would you consider bumping up your mid-range boost any? You will gain torque and HP but will need to pull some timing though. It would be worth it even on a stock turbo. Try pushing it to 19psi in the mid and taper it off to whatever you're already at in the upper end rpms. Before you protest, just give it some testing and report back. I'll bet you'll be happy with it.
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:19 PM   #311
chuglobal
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Default Yo

1. What do you mean by "out of control?" Is that good/bad?

2. Actually, the timing values from 4-6K rpm is from the base Stage 2 timing map from TurboXs. What range are you considering "mid range?" I can tell my previous knock events were due to timing issues in the 4750-5250rpm range because I can see the huge difference between what the ECU and UTEC are trying to run for timing. It seems from the log below that the ECu is way more conservative in timing from 3.5-5.5K rpm.

3. Why would you suggest running 19psi while most people don't run more than 16.5psi on the stock turbo? Yes, I do ask alot of questions.
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:33 PM   #312
Division By Zero
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Default Re: Yo

Quote:
Originally posted by chuglobal
1. What do you mean by "out of control?" Is that good/bad?

2. Actually, the timing values from 4-6K rpm is from the base Stage 2 timing map from TurboXs. What range are you considering "mid range?" I can tell my previous knock events were due to timing issues in the 4750-5250rpm range because I can see the huge difference between what the ECU and UTEC are trying to run for timing. It seems from the log below that the ECu is way more conservative in timing from 3.5-5.5K rpm.

3. Why would you suggest running 19psi while most people don't run more than 16.5psi on the stock turbo? Yes, I do ask alot of questions.
1.) Hey man, I was just kidding. I hope you didn't think anything more of it.

2.) I'd say mid-range (in your case) would be about 3800-5300rpms or so, and

3.) I say 19psi because it can be done and safely in the mid range (I'm not most people). Just give it a try and see. If it doesn't digest well then go back to what you know.
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #313
chuglobal
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Default Yo

1. No big deal, I just figured I'd post my trials/errors since people have been asking me alot of questions. I think it'd be more efficient to post the details so it'll answer more questions at once.

2. I was wondering about the Log from yesterday. It's amazing how much timing advance I was running off the base Stage 2 map. I actually got knocks this morning in the 35s+\- and thought directly to the huge timing difference from the Log yesterday.
I think I'll pull 2 degree of timing from 3.5-5.5K rpm and see what happens. My fuel theory obviously didn't work since I knocked this morning. I figured we should be able to run 3-5 degrees more than the ECU and be safe but when I'm running 6-8+ degree more it's pushing it.

3. There was a debating earlier that which is better, more boost or timing. I thought there might be a problem w/ too much boost especially at or above 17psi. What do you think?
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:32 AM   #314
chuglobal
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Default Humm ...

I've been thinking on how weather changes affect knock occurrances. I know that when it's cold, the ECU automatically pulls timing to compensate for the higher boost levels. When it gets warmers, the ECU runs more timing to compensate for the lower boost levels. Thus another new theory is to tune timing in cold weather. Once you get the timing map in the cold weather "w/out" knock and then knock occurs when it gets hotter, then adjust the fuel by adding more fuel. What do you guys think?
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Old 03-13-2004, 06:10 PM   #315
Eric1855
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Default help with map

I need help with my tuning maps. Right now I am running the TurboXS base map for Stage 4, but my problem is I have a VF23 not a 30/34, the stock TMIC, and headers, the rest is the same as Stage 4.

I am a huge noob when it comes to tuning on the UTEC, but i understand the science behind it, and there are no reputable UTEC tuners in this area. I know i can figure it out, im an engineer dammit! , i just need some pointing in the right direction.

Thanks

Eric

Edit

here is the logs of a run i made today at the 1/8 mile. Maybe theyll help.

RPM TPS MAP MLP IGN AFR Knock Count

5192 007 -11.8 00 ECU. 14.3 00000
5128 007 -11.8 00 ECU. 14.8 00000
5104 007 -11.8 00 ECU. 14.6 00000
5050 007 -11.8 00 ECU. 14.4 00000
4960 008 -12.0 00 ECU. 15.0 00000
5104 013 -11.6 00 ECU. 15.3 00000
5500 018 -10.8 00 ECU. 15.7 00000
6172 034 -9.1 00 ECU. 12.4 00000
5428 044 -5.9 00 ECU. rich 00000
4397 056 -1.8 00 ECU. rich 00000
4016 057 +2.9 00 ECU. rich 00000
3615 064 +6.8 60 ECU. rich 00000
3165 068 +9.4 60 ECU. rich 00000
3944 086 +10.4 60 ECU. rich 00000
4230 098 +11.0 60 ECU. rich 00000
4852 098 +12.1 70 +23.0 rich 00000
5602 098 +13.1 80 +23.0 rich 00000
6060 098 +14.3 80 +24.5 rich 00000
6761 065 +15.1 80 +26.0 rich 00000
6138 000 +10.0 00 ECU. rich 00000
5678 098 +5.9 10 ECU. 14.8 00000
3977 098 +4.7 30 ECU. rich 00000
4235 098 +4.5 70 +18.6 rich 00000
4468 098 +10.0 80 +20.4 rich 00000
4681 098 +14.9 90 +22.2 rich 00000
4930 098 +16.8 100 +23.0 rich 00000
5265 098 +17.6 100 +23.0 rich 00000
5428 098 +17.4 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5500 098 +16.1 80 +23.0 rich 00000
5868 098 +15.5 80 +23.1 rich 00000
5973 098 +14.9 80 +24.2 rich 00000
6349 098 +14.9 80 +24.5 rich 00000
6337 098 +14.9 80 +25.0 rich 00000
6706 098 +14.9 80 +26.0 rich 00000
6706 000 +12.9 00 ECU. rich 00000
6915 099 +9.0 20 ECU. 14.1 00000
4728 098 +7.8 30 ECU. rich 00000
4923 098 +8.2 70 +23.0 rich 00000
5073 098 +11.3 100 +23.0 rich 00000
5175 098 +16.4 100 +23.0 rich 00000
5316 098 +18.2 100 +23.0 rich 00000
5393 098 +18.2 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5455 098 +17.4 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5518 098 +16.8 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5698 098 +16.1 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5707 098 +16.1 90 +23.0 rich 00000
5868 098 +15.9 90 +23.1 rich 00000
5868 098 +16.6 90 +23.8 rich 00000
6006 098 +17.2 100 +24.1 rich 00000
6038 098 +16.8 90 +17.0 rich 00004
6138 098 +17.0 80 +17.0 rich 00000
6325 098 +16.6 90 +24.8 rich 00000
6397 098 +15.7 90 +24.9 rich 00000
6361 098 +15.7 80 +25.0 rich 00000
6105 000 +14.1 00 ECU. rich 00000
6172 000 +7.6 00 ECU. rich 00000
6253 000 +1.1 00 ECU. 20.1 00000
6242 000 -5.5 00 ECU. 23.2 00000
6150 000 -10.6 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
6105 000 -11.2 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
6060 000 -11.2 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5868 000 -11.2 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5777 000 -11.4 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5747 000 -11.6 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5621 000 -12.0 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
5546 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5464 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
5299 000 -12.2 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
5200 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
5112 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
5050 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4990 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4830 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4782 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4714 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4662 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4578 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
4528 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4474 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4426 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4340 000 -13.0 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4262 000 -13.0 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
4208 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4115 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
4079 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3972 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3949 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.4 00000
3827 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3757 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3619 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
3497 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3408 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
3290 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
3153 000 -12.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
3049 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
2926 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
2787 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
2699 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
2546 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
2411 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
2145 000 -12.6 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
1877 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
1637 000 -12.4 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
1408 000 -12.2 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
1217 000 -12.0 00 ECU. 24.0 00000
1275 000 -11.8 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
1228 000 -11.6 00 ECU. 23.7 00000
1175 000 -11.4 00 ECU. 21.9 00000
1127 000 -11.4 00 ECU. 14.2 00000
1084 000 -11.2 00 ECU. 13.5 00000
1058 000 -11.2 00 ECU. 13.3 00000


Those numbers are from idle through the top of 3rd gear and back to a roll again (from the drag strip 1/8 mile) You can see the full throttle points and the shifts to show what gear i was in.

Last edited by Eric1855; 03-13-2004 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 03-13-2004, 06:27 PM   #316
chuglobal
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1. I can "try" to help but remember I was "new" to all of this just less than a year ago; however I've learned alot since then. I'm still trying to figure different efficient "theories" on tunning the UTEC. I've now stumbled onto another theory that the ECU can still actually run more timing in the higher rpm range w/out knock as long as the A/F is not too lean. I'm now letting the ECU control timing from 0-3.25K rpm and then from 5.75-7K rpm. I have the UTEC controlling timing from 3.5-5.5K rpm as I'm watching what the ECU is "trying" to run vs. what I can get the UTEC to run. It seems like my ECU likes to pull "alot" of timing from 3.5-5.5K rpm which is normal since that's where the turbo kicks in. However I now have NO problem pulling 3+ degrees from the base Stage 2 map as it's way too aggressive for my car; it's running 10+ degrees more than what the ECU is trying to run. Now when I get knock in the ECU controlling timing areas, I know just to add fuel back in and it also correlates to the temperature. Hotter temperature is causing more knock which I use to not see anything. I'm still playing as usual.

2. Post a 3rd gear pull using Log 1 and post as we can see what timing the ECU is trying to run before the knock vs. the UTEC. I wonder if anyone else has noticed that the ECU is actually running, on the majority side, the same if not more timing that the UTEC from 5.5-7K rpm. I speaking for the Stage 2 cars.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:38 PM   #317
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Yes, please post a log using Logger #1, it contains much more useful information.

After seeing the following line:

Code:
6706 098 +14.9 80 +26.0 rich 00000
...I would suggest that you are running too much timing up top. 23 or 24 degrees should be plenty. Hit me up on AIM if you like, we have very similar mods. I can share some tidbits if you ask nice.

Joel
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:52 PM   #318
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Alright Erik -

I can't believe I'm posting here again, but here is the two minute edition:

1. Tune fuel! You will need a WbO2. Seriously, as I've said at least 50 times in this post, you simply must tune fuel first, don't even try to tune without doing that. On 93 octane, tune safe, tune around 11.0AFR if you don't want to have to change your tune throughout the year.

2. You are at some altitude there, so I would recommend putting the UTEC boost monitoring into gauge mode if you're not there already, rather than absolute, the default. That will change the boost reading by 1-2psi. 18.5 - 19PSI relative psi in the manifold is too much with 25-26 degrees of timing on that turbo on 93 octane and the stock TMIC. That TMIC has a 3psi pressure drop, and fairly minimal cooling for that volume of air. Adding in some extra drop for the stock turbo outlet pipe and throttle body, and the turbo is pushing ambient + 23psi to make 18.5-19psi in the manifold. I would think that you are outside the efficiency range of that turbo at that flow, though like most IHI turbos it's impossible to find a compressor map for it, leading to...

3. Pull out a pound of boost. Before messing with timing, try pulling back a little boost, especially if you're not tuning fuel yet.

4. Watch the EGTs. If you see them getting hot, back off in that area. Hot would be 850C+. Add fuel and pull timing then.

5. Run perhaps a bit less timing throughout, but every car is different. With a vf34, TXS TMIC and every possible supporting mod, my car runs 26 point of timing VERY COMFORTABLY at redline with 17.5psi of boost at a happy 11.1:1 AFR the whole way through. When it was "just" stage 4, it was the mot powerful stg4 that AZScoobie had seen on a dyno, but it LOVES timing.

Nathan posted a quick and dirty tuning guide for a UTEC a little while ago - search for it, his ID is nmyeti. Check over on WRXHackers for Mick's tuning guides. I've not reviewed them, but they could give you some good information. You are an engineer, you'll figure it out.

And did I mention: TUNE FUEL!

-Sean
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:06 AM   #319
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Something interesting yet again this morning. I had the ABC 7 turns out from closed and it was in the low 40s. I expected my car to overboost as I had the setting for the high 60s and low 70s. However when I went to do my 4th gear run, I actually only averaged 16psi. I was expecting to hit 17psi+ easily but it didn't.
So my question is that can a reverse effect happen to boost if the ABC is turned out "too" much? Can I have the ABC at 6 turns out hit 17psi but when I turn it to 7 turns that I actually get less boost?
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:33 PM   #320
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ok I did some tweaking and switched to Closed Loop Boost control.

Here is another log of a quick 3rd gear pull

3363 -10.0 2.0 7 00 00 14.5 +39.2 6.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.0
3370 -9.4 2.1 8 00 00 15.1 +39.4 6.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.0
3408 -7.9 3.0 58 00 00 14.4 +33.6 15.0 ECU. -5.1 136.00 2.8
3401 -5.5 2.9 90 10 00 13.5 +31.5 20.0 ECU. -3.9 198.00 2.8
3501 -2.8 3.0 88 10 00 rich +31.2 21.0 ECU. -4.0 200.00 3.0
3542 +0.0 3.1 45 00 00 rich +31.2 24.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 3.0
3595 +2.7 3.4 96 20 00 14.4 +25.6 28.0 ECU. -4.1 200.00 3.2
3650 +4.3 3.6 102 30 00 rich +19.6 35.0 ECU. -4.3 200.00 3.4
3683 +7.0 3.6 102 50 00 rich +16.4 45.0 ECU. -4.5 200.00 3.7
3840 +10.2 3.8 102 70 00 rich +13.7 56.0 +18.4 -4.8 200.00 3.7
3996 +13.5 3.9 102 90 00 rich +14.1 58.0 +19.0 -5.0 200.00 3.7
4060 +16.1 3.8 102 90 00 rich +16.0 56.0 +19.0 -5.0 200.00 3.7
4089 +17.0 3.9 102 90 00 rich +16.2 57.0 +19.0 -5.1 200.00 3.7
4224 +17.2 3.9 102 80 00 rich +12.2 62.0 +19.1 -5.3 200.00 3.8
4351 +16.5 4.0 102 90 00 rich +11.5 65.0 +19.5 -5.3 200.00 3.8
4462 +16.5 4.0 101 90 00 rich +11.9 67.0 +19.7 -5.3 200.00 3.8
4559 +16.7 4.1 101 90 00 rich +13.0 68.0 +20.0 -5.5 200.00 3.8
4810 +17.0 4.1 101 90 00 rich +14.3 70.0 +20.0 -5.9 200.00 3.8
4789 +17.2 4.1 101 90 00 rich +15.1 70.0 +20.0 -6.0 200.00 3.8
4930 +16.5 4.2 102 80 00 rich +15.8 72.0 +20.0 -6.0 200.00 3.9
5144 +16.7 4.1 101 80 00 rich +16.4 75.0 +20.0 -6.1 200.00 3.9
5159 +16.5 4.2 101 90 00 rich +18.6 76.0 +20.0 -6.1 200.00 3.9
5184 +16.3 4.2 101 80 00 rich +18.6 78.0 +20.0 -6.1 200.00 4.0
5324 +17.0 4.2 101 80 00 rich +19.0 80.0 +20.0 -6.1 200.00 4.0
5473 +16.7 4.3 102 90 00 rich +19.0 81.0 +20.0 -6.1 200.00 4.0
5527 +16.3 4.3 101 90 00 rich +20.8 82.0 +20.2 -5.9 200.00 4.0
5574 +17.2 4.3 102 90 00 rich +21.0 82.0 +20.4 -5.9 200.00 4.1
5767 +17.2 4.3 101 90 00 rich +21.2 83.0 +20.8 -5.9 200.00 4.0
5847 +16.3 4.3 101 80 00 rich +23.1 86.0 +21.0 -5.6 200.00 4.1
5920 +16.7 4.4 97 80 00 rich +23.1 87.0 +21.6 -5.5 200.00 4.1
6093 +16.3 4.4 75 90 00 rich +23.6 87.0 +21.0 -5.0 200.00 4.1
5973 +14.3 3.2 8 00 00 rich +39.5 28.0 ECU. -5.1 134.00 2.9
5952 +8.4 2.9 0 00 00 12.9 +8.7 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.6
5941 +1.4 2.5 0 00 00 lean +10.8 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.3
5952 -5.3 2.4 0 00 00 24.5 +10.6 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.2
5847 -10.4 2.3 0 00 00 24.5 +10.9 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.2
5847 -10.8 2.3 0 00 00 24.2 +10.8 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.1
5757 -10.8 2.2 0 00 00 24.5 +10.5 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.1
5688 -11.0 2.2 0 00 00 24.2 +10.7 28.0 ECU. -5.1 ECU. 2.0
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Old 03-18-2004, 08:29 AM   #321
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Eric,

Looks good. You really need to tune fuel - don't make the mistakes others have made and tweak for the sake of tweaking - but it looks pretty good there. Your ECU isn't crashing timing on you (sure sign that it sees problems), your boost seems solid and your power delivery is probably good.

There is probably some power on the table, but without a WbO2, you're never going to find it safely.

-Sean
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Old 03-18-2004, 05:57 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally posted by big_adventure
Eric,

Looks good. You really need to tune fuel - don't make the mistakes others have made and tweak for the sake of tweaking - but it looks pretty good there. Your ECU isn't crashing timing on you (sure sign that it sees problems), your boost seems solid and your power delivery is probably good.

There is probably some power on the table, but without a WbO2, you're never going to find it safely.

-Sean
I'm going to the dyno tomorrow with a WB02. I just only have an hour and wanted to work out boost and timing before hand if I can. I'll get the fuel down tomorrow on the dyno.
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Old 03-18-2004, 06:07 PM   #323
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Looking good! You should be in great shape after a dyno session. I'll be real curious to see what your fuel map looks like (and what AFR you targeted) at some point...

Joel
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:34 AM   #324
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Well, my previous theory was not correct. It looks like recently that instead of have the ABC turned at X turns out, I'm actually doing X+2 turns out to obtain almost the same boost levels.

Previous
50 degrees = 5 turns out
60 degrees = 6 turns out

Current
50 degrees = 7 turns out
60 degrees = 8 turns out

I'm pretty consistent ono boost from 3-5.5K rpm and fine editing the values in the CLB. I'm sure it's the warmer weather but I thought it was strange. At first I thought it was a boost leak but I can't find anything. Maybe I'll find something later.
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Old 03-20-2004, 09:38 PM   #325
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was hitting 11.6 : 1 at the top end of my RPM range today on the dyno, using a Wideband O2 sniffer (Autronic type) in the exhaust.

Should I add more fuel to bring this down to closer to 11:1?
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