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Old 03-21-2023, 04:03 PM   #301
dwf137
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Just looking for that goldilocks car; BRZ/GR86 with ~300hp *cough.cough.GR.Corolla.power.plant.cough.cough* would be ideal.
it would be amazing...

FI kit for the 2.4 might be the more realistic path, but they all seem to be delayed because of the ECU...
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Old 03-21-2023, 06:53 PM   #302
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2nd gen def doesn't need turbo power, but I'd take a G16 swap in a heartbeat if it only gave me the sound and no power/torque gains. Plus it's a bombproof Toyota engine instead of a perilous Subaru boxer.

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So what you want is a 911?
300hp, 3000lbs? Regular Cayman is exactly that. $70k though, easy to see why someone would look at the $30k twins and question whether one less lb/hp is worth double the price, and why nothing really exists there.

And why not just G16 the twins? It's hard to imagine the price premium being much more than $5k. Last year when we figured out Toyota was running a GR86 with a G16 (basically) in Super Taikyu I figured out it'd be at least 100lbs lighter, probably more.

https://toyotatimes.jp/en/report/hpe..._2022/009.html
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Old 03-21-2023, 07:57 PM   #303
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I spent about 32 hours with a manual '22 BRZ on Oahu last week through Turo. I loved it where I loathed the old car. Completely different animal with the 2.4L. I only wish I'd had a more fun place to drive it... off the freeways, the highest speed limit was 45mph in most places (I seem to remember a 50 or 55 along the North Shore.. but not exactly a fun road) and everything was way too crowded to really push it and have any real fun.

My prediction that it would feel like my old GM6 2.5RS (with a top end that breathes well) was spot on. Great usable power without being so much that it's a cause for concern on slick roads. The noise generator makes the engine note tolerable, if not exactly exciting (and my tolerance is way down with 4.25 years of driving an EV).

Subaru's head units suck, though. Laggy, buggy, Apple Carplay and random reboots. I'd rip that thing out and install something worthwhile from the aftermarket immediately.

My 10yo had some problems with the back seat. She's small (and her mother has short-ish legs), so she didn't have any legroom issues, but she definitely had sight-line issues. Her mother and I kept asking her if she could see the scenery and she finally told us that unless it was straight up, she couldn't really see anything.

My wife complained that the trunk felt smaller than the one in her old NB Miata. I told her it's just the opening that's smaller. (5.1cuft vs 6.3cuft) We basically fit our week's luggage (we traveled light due to a planned trip to another island via small plane) in the back, so I don't know what she was complaining about. It has been over a dozen years since we sold the Miata, so I'm not surprised that she looks back on its utility with some rose colored glasses.

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Old 03-22-2023, 11:10 AM   #304
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So what you want is a 911?
Yes, but also no;

In concept, a 911 would work, but in reality, at 106k starting MSRP, a 911 doesn't work, I don't even want to know what the configured price would be.

Cayman at ~63k (~80k configured though ) would be more palatable, but its 2-seat only, and if I was going 2-seat I'd take a Supra 3.0 w/6mt that is ~59k configured over a Cayman.

Like I said, I want a ~300hp GR86/BRZ. G16 is there, it 'fits' in the twins as Toyota has already done it for testing purposes, and we know the G16.
GR86 premium is ~32k configured, a 6k bump for the G16 version/trim seems reasonable to me, even an 8k bump so it's at/under 40k configured after delivery would be acceptable.

Granted, Subaru builds them, so the logistics of offering two engines err drivelines in a limited production coupe is not to be ignored, G16 would need to be modified to work longitudinally, require a stronger trans (AZ6/TL70 is rated to 210ft-lbs IIRC), stronger rear diff & axles; also larger brakes; but Toyota has already done all of that.
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Old 03-22-2023, 12:37 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Yes, but also no;

In concept, a 911 would work, but in reality, at 106k starting MSRP, a 911 doesn't work, I don't even want to know what the configured price would be.
Why do you have to buy new?

Buy the best used 911 you can afford. Almost every used one is in excellent condition. You can even get a non turbo one with plenty of power.


I realized lately that my ideal car would be a used 981 Cayman with a PDK for under $30k. What I would really want would be a BRZ with rev matching or a dual clutch, but those 981 Caymans are proving to be extremely reliable and have some interesting OEM+ options available like the X73 suspension for $1500 (Struts + Springs + Swaybars new from Porsche for that price! Wild).
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Old 05-11-2023, 11:54 AM   #306
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.....
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Old 05-11-2023, 11:54 AM   #307
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TireRack did a very interesting wheel width comparison using a trio of BRZs.

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Old 05-11-2023, 01:32 PM   #308
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^^^ thanks for posting this and reinforcing my confirmation bias. Now my stock width replacement tires will feel even faster on the way to macdonalds.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:14 PM   #309
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I would say all the concerns about fitment are pretty moot unless you're over 6'4" and still have a 30" inseam.

One note, the pedals aren't great for heal toe with the gas pedal being sunk slightly. I felt it was fine, but I had to think about it to do it well. I didn't get to drive one so I can't comment there, but the people who did all said they were pretty fantastic given the price range.
Im 64, time to test drive one. interesting on the throttle. I installed a throttle spacer on my wrx for effortless heel toe. Id definitely do the same on the BRZ/86 then.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:17 PM   #310
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Im 64, time to test drive one. interesting on the throttle. I installed a throttle spacer on my wrx for effortless heel toe. Id definitely do the same on the BRZ/86 then.
It's not really that bad, but a gas pedal cover with a wing (there's a few out there) will remove the need two twist your foot. I've just gotten used to it, but on lazy matches where I don't twist and just try to hit it with the side of my foot, I miss.
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Old 06-11-2023, 03:56 PM   #311
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Little comparo to an STI by Zygrene. Both cars has minor mods though.
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Old 06-12-2023, 09:31 PM   #312
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Wow, 45% markup, and on an auto no less
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Old 06-13-2023, 11:05 AM   #313
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I'm still a bit confounded by the lack of availability of these things...

My local subaru dealer has 153 cars in stock, and 1 BRZ. Seems to me like their production isn't quite aligned with demand on various vehicles. Guess it's clear where the priorities lie. They'd rather have 65 outbacks sitting on a lot with 3K discounts than provide enough BRZ/86's so that enthusiasts don't have to pay ADM.
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Old 06-13-2023, 11:20 AM   #314
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I'm still a bit confounded by the lack of availability of these things...

My local subaru dealer has 153 cars in stock, and 1 BRZ. Seems to me like their production isn't quite aligned with demand on various vehicles. Guess it's clear where the priorities lie. They'd rather have 65 outbacks sitting on a lot with 3K discounts than provide enough BRZ/86's so that enthusiasts don't have to pay ADM.
Whats to be confused about? They have one small production like for the WHOLE WORLD and they sell out immediately in every market. They would have to build another factory to supply any more.
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Old 06-13-2023, 11:32 AM   #315
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Whats to be confused about? They have one small production like for the WHOLE WORLD and they sell out immediately in every market. They would have to build another factory to supply any more.
Right. I can't help but look a the history of the 1st gen, availability vs. time. The beginning wasn't quite as crazy as it's been with the 2nd gen but close enough. (No pandemic BS and they made a lot more 1st gens.)

Over time though... Justy will tell you how hard it was to give away BRZ's toward the end. 2nd gen will get there eventually, I think. Given the tiny volume from beginning to end, no need to get too crazy with the factory. The car-buying population just saturates a lot differently with this kind of car vs. appliances.
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Old 06-13-2023, 11:45 AM   #316
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Whats to be confused about? They have one small production like for the WHOLE WORLD and they sell out immediately in every market. They would have to build another factory to supply any more.
I understand that a low supply car sells out fast. That's not rocket science.

What's confusing is why they don't shift production around so that they can even out supply/demand across the vehicles that they produce. They also make foresters, crosstreks, imprezas, and wrx's in the same factory that produces the brz...

And yes, of course an 8 year old car that has had very few appreciable updates is going to be hard to sell. If they updated it more, they might sell more in those latter years.
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Old 06-13-2023, 12:32 PM   #317
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I understand that a low supply car sells out fast. That's not rocket science.

What's confusing is why they don't shift production around so that they can even out supply/demand across the vehicles that they produce. They also make foresters, crosstreks, imprezas, and wrx's in the same factory that produces the brz...
Because they also sell as many Foresters and Crosstreks as they can. Its possible they reduced WRX production to make more BRZ/GR86s since they announced the UK is getting more GR86s, but you would have to ask Subaru of Japan and Toyota about that.

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Old 06-13-2023, 12:53 PM   #318
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Because they also sell as many Foresters and Crosstreks as they can. Its possible they reduced QRX production to make more BRZ/GR86s since they announced the UK is getting more GR86s, but you would have to ask Subaru of Japan and Toyota about that.
There still seems to be a balancing act between all of the cars produced at Gunma that they could do to even out supply and demand so their customers have a better buying experience.

swapping some wrx for brz seems like a good idea, imo. A good number of WRX's sitting on lots, discounted below 30K, where people would be willing to pay the same amount for a BRZ and it'd sell before getting to the lot...
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:40 PM   #319
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Its possible they reduced WRX production to make more BRZ/GR86s since they announced the UK is getting more GR86s
omg I hadn't heard about that. Just looked in some forums, UK guys that missed the cut on the first attempt getting emails that they are invited to put in an actual order. Freakin good for them.

I can hardly imagine their surprise. I wanted 8 months with multiple dealers for that news. I had every reason to expect it any day.. and it never came. Ended up hunting a car down (awful, painful.) It would have been like Christmas to get that email. They had no reason to expect it and boom!

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There still seems to be a balancing act between all of the cars produced at Gunma that they could do to even out supply and demand so their customers have a better buying experience.

swapping some wrx for brz seems like a good idea, imo. A good number of WRX's sitting on lots, discounted below 30K, where people would be willing to pay the same amount for a BRZ and it'd sell before getting to the lot...
See above.. that's all I could think about last year. Why the heeeeyyyyyylllll aren't you making more, and especially manuals, ffs!?! They just ain't care.
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Old 06-13-2023, 08:08 PM   #320
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Right. I can't help but look a the history of the 1st gen, availability vs. time. The beginning wasn't quite as crazy as it's been with the 2nd gen but close enough. (No pandemic BS and they made a lot more 1st gens.)

Over time though... Justy will tell you how hard it was to give away BRZ's toward the end. 2nd gen will get there eventually, I think. Given the tiny volume from beginning to end, no need to get too crazy with the factory. The car-buying population just saturates a lot differently with this kind of car vs. appliances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
I understand that a low supply car sells out fast. That's not rocket science.

What's confusing is why they don't shift production around so that they can even out supply/demand across the vehicles that they produce. They also make foresters, crosstreks, imprezas, and wrx's in the same factory that produces the brz...

And yes, of course an 8 year old car that has had very few appreciable updates is going to be hard to sell. If they updated it more, they might sell more in those latter years.

Also keep in mind, I think this is still a "We make it with/for Toyota and can make some more money by putting our badge on it" type situation.
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Old 06-13-2023, 11:31 PM   #321
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Also keep in mind, I think this is still a "We make it with/for Toyota and can make some more money by putting our badge on it" type situation.
They might also have a term in the contract with Toyota that says they can't flood the market with BRZs and need to keep a certain balance between the 2 cars.
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Old 06-14-2023, 12:37 AM   #322
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Also keep in mind, I think this is still a "We make it with/for Toyota and can make some more money by putting our badge on it" type situation.
They're not making enough 86's either... those seem to have much higher ADM than the BRZ's because Toyota dealerships are taking advantage of the undersupplied situation.

It all just sours the experience. It's made me not want one.
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:37 AM   #323
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They're not making enough 86's either... those seem to have much higher ADM than the BRZ's because Toyota dealerships are taking advantage of the undersupplied situation.

It all just sours the experience. It's made me not want one.
It's also because Toyota won't let you pre-order a custom order of the car you want, while Subaru will. Toyota gets what they get for GR86s and play the "first come first serve" game, same with Supras and GR Corollas.

It's also why I hate Toyota dealers the most right now, they are rhe scummiest of all the scumbag brands at this point. "I know what I have" should be their slogan.
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Old 06-14-2023, 06:40 AM   #324
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It's also because Toyota won't let you pre-order a custom order of the car you want, while Subaru will. Toyota gets what they get for GR86s and play the "first come first serve" game, same with Supras and GR Corollas.

It's also why I hate Toyota dealers the most right now, they are rhe scummiest of all the scumbag brands at this point. "I know what I have" should be their slogan.
Those are the two reasons we have a Kia Sorento PHEV instead of a Highlander hybrid in our driveway.

Had trouble finding a dealer that didn't have a markup, when we did, were told "4 months" as a time frame, waited 5-6 months after "placing our order" aka. putting down a deposit for a vehicle that may or may not materialize; we finally gave up on waiting when I found a Kia that suited our wants and needs a state over at MSRP.

Toyota didn't care that 5 out of 6 dealers in my area that I called were adding a markup either.
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Old 06-14-2023, 10:53 AM   #325
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It's also why I hate Toyota dealers the most right now, they are rhe scummiest of all the scumbag brands at this point. "I know what I have" should be their slogan.
Right... so what's confusing/frustrating is why the corporate toyota/subaru are letting the dealerships ruin the car-buying experience for their customers and pull in a ton of profit via ADM, while if they just produced more cars (shifted production so they're not over producing some and under producing others), customers would be more happy, corporate would be making more money, and dealers would likely be making the same because they'd be making less on more transactions...

Maybe they're trying to protect themselves from a potential recession? Maybe they need to keep the balance shifted for CAFE requirements? Whatever the reason, it's frustrating.
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