Fords E-Future

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by sweater914

Find a Ford dealership with intregrity. Ordered my F350 dually Nov '21, purchased May '22. Paid MSRP Nov '21 price, between Nov-May Ford raised the base price by $3K, the salesman/dealer I worked with honored the Nov '21 MSRP price.

So what you’re saying is, Ford just like every other auto manufacturer raised prices due to increased cost in materials, parts, labor, and shipping. Big shocker.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[SubaDuba420]

What i'm getting is that he found one of the few dealers with integrity who stood by the initial deal...

[scoobyRx]

Ford has also admitted they don't care about hybrids or electrics for racing, which I support. You watch racing for a thrill as much as anything and quiet/silent cars are no thrill.

https://www.motorsport.com/general/n...port/10371372/

[scoobyRx]

Ford has also admitted they don't care about hybrids or electrics for racing, which I support. You watch racing for a thrill as much as anything and quiet/silent cars are no thrill.

https://www.motorsport.com/general/n...port/10371372/

[SubaDuba420]

While i'm no electric green guy, don't claim it will save the world, will burn fuel till I die, i'm also not delusional, it's new, it's different, it's not the end of the world....

Nitro RX UK Group E Final - Lydden Hill - YouTube

Nitro RX UK Group E Final - Lydden Hill - YouTube

Hate electric, all good , but no thrill

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

While i'm no electric green guy, don't claim it will save the world, will burn fuel till I die, i'm also not delusional, it's new, it's different, it's not the end of the world....

Nitro RX UK Group E Final - Lydden Hill - YouTube

Hate electric, all good , but no thrill

That was entertaining to watch; this is a good arena for EV racecars - no refueling required, fast paced, a good amount of contact, sideways action.

I'm willing to bet an EV trophy/stadium truck race would be at least as entertaining.

[scoobyRx]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

While i'm no electric green guy, don't claim it will save the world, will burn fuel till I die, i'm also not delusional, it's new, it's different, it's not the end of the world....

Nitro RX UK Group E Final - Lydden Hill - YouTube

Hate electric, all good , but no thrill

You can have rallycross. I don't find the new stuff very entertaining. It's usually about who gets the hole shot and they only pass if they hit each other.
I usually fall asleep when I try to watch FE.

[White out]

Originally Posted by Ford

and cutting advertising costs.

Seems like a solid plan.

[SubaDuba420]

Ford Makes a Big Announcement
The automaker has just given a death kiss to a technology that was hyped by the auto sector until recently.
https://www.thestreet.com/technology...o&cm_ven=YAHOO

Multi-Billion Dollar Investment

Ford wants to waste no more time. It is for this logic that the group has just forced the breakup of Argo AI, its subsidiary for the development of autonomous technologies, of which Volkswagen (VLKAF) was also a major shareholder.

Ford and Volkswagen had invested billions of dollars in Argo AI in 2017 with the hope that it would allow them to bring driverless vehicles on the roads under specific conditions by 2021. But by withdrawing its support for Argo, which is now forced to close for lack of new shareholders, Ford seems to admit that autonomous technology is not ready for now.

The adventure was costly since the brand with the blue oval recorded an impairment charge linked to Argo AI of around $2.7 billion for the third quarter, thus causing a net quarterly loss of $827 million. Volkswagen has not yet published its results but it is more than likely that Argo Ai has also caused a financial hole for the German giant.

[SubaDuba420]

Ford CEO reveals two of three Ford dealers buy into all-electric strategy
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-ceo-...220555772.html

Ford Motor Co. has secured commitments from two of every three dealers who plan to go all-in on selling electric vehicles, CEO Jim Farley revealed during an interview Monday afternoon.

Of the estimated 3,000 Ford dealers in the U.S., 1,920 have enrolled in the voluntary Model e Program for the initial 2024 to 2026 period, the company confirmed to the Free Press.

Customers shopping for electric vehicles will soon see signage that identifies dealers as Model e Certified Elite or Model e Certified. This is significant because it also tells the public the location of fast chargers needed to "fuel up" electric vehicles.

Of those that enrolled:• 1,659 chose to be Certified Elite with full sales and service capability• 261 chose to be Certified with full service capability, limited sales and a lower investment cost.

Initially, Ford said its dealers needed to decide whether they wanted to pay an estimated $500,000 to $1.2 million to install the charging infrastructure to achieve the special certification status. If dealers don't have charging stations, they can't service the electric vehicles. A second period of certification will take place in 2027, after Ford has begun releasing its new electric vehicle lineup.

The dollar figures provided were exceptionally conservative, the company has said.

The Model e Certified dealer will have one DC fast-charger starting Jan. 1, 2024, for public use, with two plugs. These dealerships will provide repair and get a limited supply of electric vehicles to sell. The Model e Certified Elite dealer will have two DC fast-chargers for public use and provide full service with access to a full inventory for customer purchase.

"We're betting on the dealers," Farley told reporters in September. "We're not going to direct (them). But we need to specialize. … The main message I have for the dealers, which I've never said before, because I never believed it was true, is that you could be the most valuable franchise in our industry. But you have to pick, just like we're betting."

He and members of his executive team met with reporters between dealer meetings at The Bellagio in Las Vegas, immediately after breaking the news to many of its dealers in the U.S.

Dealers who declined to enroll for 2024 to 2026 will have another opportunity to enroll in 2025.

Super Duty trucks, which have internal combustion engines (ICE), continue to be a key revenue source for Ford. The ICE Age will remain for years to come, even as the industry evolves, Farley has said.

[SCRAPPYDO]

This is very interesting to me. AS much as I do not want an EV at this time, The death of the dealership may be worth it. It would be a sacrifice for the good of all mankind.

[SubaDuba420]

Ford Is Now the Second-Place EV Builder in the United States
The company's sights are firmly set on Tesla's market share.
https://jalopnik.com/ford-is-now-the...d-s-1849952840

Ford’s going all-in on electrification, down to its bifurcated branding, and so far the move seems to be paying off. The Blue Oval may not have caught Tesla in sales quite yet, but it seems to be edging closer every year. From Ford:
"Ford’s full year sales of electric vehicles hit a new record at 61,575 vehicles, making Ford the second largest automaker of electric vehicles in America. Ford sales of EVs were up 126 percent for the year and up 223 percent for December."

The Mach-E is one of the electric market’s few midsize crossovers, roomier than smaller entries like the Kia EV6 or Subaru Solterra. I have to wonder if that’s playing into its skyrocketing sales.

and before the disciples, YES, it's way Way WAY lower than #1....

[FaastLegacy]

That surprises me - the #2 US market producer of electric vehicles is only 61k vehicles?

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

Ford Is Now the Second-Place EV Builder in the United States
The company's sights are firmly set on Tesla's market share.
https://jalopnik.com/ford-is-now-the...d-s-1849952840


and before the disciples, YES, it's way Way WAY lower than #1....

Ford sold 41k EV's by the end of third quarter, (Mach-E making up the bulk of those sales) that means they had a stellar 4th quarter, relatively speaking that is.

For comparison, Tesla sold 131k EV's in the third quarter alone, and ~391k EVs by the end of the third quarter, probably at around 500k sales by the end of the year (haven't come across/looked for reported numbers yet).

Yes, the gap between 1st and 2nd place is pretty large.

On a model by model basis (again through 3rd quarter) see below:

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by FaastLegacy

That surprises me - the #2 US market producer of electric vehicles is only 61k vehicles?

It should not. The US demand for EV is spectacularly small. It is just the non ending media swarm around them that makes them seem more popular than they are. Most people do not like change and rightfully see no advantage in switching. To the average consumer, there is no logical reason to own one.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

It should not. The US demand for EV is spectacularly small. It is just the non ending media swarm around them that makes them seem more popular than they are. Most people do not like change and rightfully see no advantage in switching. To the average consumer, there is no logical reason to own one.

When was the last time you left Texas/middle America? They're a significant portion of urban car sales on the coasts. JD Power says 24% of shoppers in 2022 considered EVs.

Some 37% of premium vehicle owners indicate they are “very likely” to consider an EV for their next purchase vs. just 21% among those who currently own mass market vehicles.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Considered is a very broad term.

OH, your doing that discredit the messenger things. Ok, let me alleviate your attempt to stereotype me.

I travel to each coast about 1-2 times a year for work. Are there more EV in Southern California than Texas. Yup. Good for them. They are incentivized to buy them through draconian anti fossil fuel laws. Makes perfect sense. Also urban areas seem to be more ideal conditions for EV. Good for them too. I hope their lives are improved.

I have considered buying an EV. And 'shockingly' I did not buy one. So I am in that 24% as well. I fail to see how that disputes anything I wrote, but whatever.

That also means that 76 % did not even consider it which is more telling.

They will continue to make up a tiny fraction of the vehicles sold for a long long time.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Considered is a very broad term.

OH, your doing that discredit the messenger things. Ok, let me alleviate your attempt to stereotype me.

I travel to each coast about 1-2 times a year for work. Are there more EV in Southern California than Texas. Yup. Good for them. They are incentivized to buy them through draconian anti fossil fuel laws. Makes perfect sense. Also urban areas seem to be more ideal conditions for EV. Good for them too. I hope their lives are improved.

I have considered buying an EV. And 'shockingly' I did not buy one. So I am in that 24% as well. I fail to see how that disputes anything I wrote, but whatever.

That also means that 76 % did not even consider it which is more telling.

They will continue to make up a tiny fraction of the vehicles sold for a long long time.

[FaastLegacy]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

It should not. The US demand for EV is spectacularly small. It is just the non ending media swarm around them that makes them seem more popular than they are. Most people do not like change and rightfully see no advantage in switching. To the average consumer, there is no logical reason to own one.

I mean, they're every other car on the road out here in AZ. We have horrendous gas prices compared to the rest of the country and EVs get fulltime use of the HOV lane.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

It should not. The US demand for EV is spectacularly small. It is just the non ending media swarm around them that makes them seem more popular than they are. Most people do not like change and rightfully see no advantage in switching. To the average consumer, there is no logical reason to own one.

It’s totally a demand issue and absolutely NOT a scale and production/ manufacturing issue.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

It's totally a demand issue and absolutely NOT a scale and production/ manufacturing issue.

74% did not even consider them.

let that sink in buddy.

The single thing your missing is there is still no reason to buy one. They do nothing better than a ICE vehicle. They keep getting touted as better but until the price drops, they are not even a better solution for a LARGE swath of the population. Cost more , limited range, long recharge times, reduced range in the cold, etc. They would make a decent second vehicle, but so would a corolla or a new Prius, which costs less.

Please spare me the cherry picked time to charge examples. They always use a 50 trillion watt Super ultra Mega Awesome charger under ideal conditions.

I wager in some places with absurd gas prices people are being driven to look at them out of desperation, but not desire.

I have said this 1000 times. They are a different solution not a better one for most people. Some people want to try different, so be it. I am happy people have a choice.

But they are not better tech, or newer tech. Its just existing tech packaged differently. I find people who find EV high tech, are generally not very tech savvy. If it makes warmers feel superior to drive one, great. Their happiness costs me nothing. WE need more happiness in the world.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

They do nothing better than a ICE vehicle.

Power delivery is better than any ICE vehicle.

Per mile cost is cheaper.

Maintenance is significantly less.

Point of use emissions are zero.

But beyond that, yeah, they're all just cars. Different strokes. Personal values/morals dictate whether someone wants to consider one or not.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

74% did not even consider them.

54% of the car buying population is 55 & over, most of them are afraid of the magic pixies in the wall, and change in general.

To the 45% of buyers that are 25-54 - location, cost, lack of knowledge and/or understanding of technology & use case are all factors.

I've been considering an EV ever since the Tesla Roadster was announced in the early 00's; I'm east coast, so I didn't even learn about the EV-1 until after it had been discontinued, besides, it was a California only vehicle. I'm just waiting for something to come on the market that actually interests me; it's mostly CUVs at this point, with very few exceptions, and none of the cars currently (excluding the Taycan) are "drivers cars" not saying the Tesla Model 3 Performance isn't quick, but it's very much a one-trick pony that is trying to take driving tasks away from the driver. EV6 GT is a step in the right direction, still a CUV though, Ioniq 6 N will hopefully get it right, but that's still a couple-few years out (Ioniq 6 is coming this year, but a performance version will hold for at least a year, even if it's already developed).

Only 6% of US sales in 2022 were electric, but that's up from 2.2% in 2021.
To put that in perspective:
Tesla sold 1.3M vehicles in 2022
Toyota sold 1.9M vehicles (just Toyota, not Lexus)
Ford sold around 1.9M vehicles
Subaru sold 557k vehicles in 2022
Mazda sold 295k vehicles in 2022

Tesla is selling almost as many vehicles as the big boys are, and those Toyota & Ford numbers include BEV, PHEV & Hybrids, didn't feel like doing the math. If Tesla could have manufactured more cars in 2022, I'm sure they would have sold them.

I don't like Tesla for several reasons, but they are the leading BEV manufacturer in the US (world as well?) and can't be ignore or shrugged off.

Now that there is actual competition in the market, prices will start to come down on BEVs to be closer to their ICE counterparts; how long it takes to get to "the same" price for BEV vs. equivalent ICE? I'd wager before 2030.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Genericuser1

They do need to provide a way to look at and drive a car. Not ordering a $50k vehicle like I do a $30 item on Amazon.

well, if they make the return policy as easy as it is from Amazon. fill out the return form within 30 days, and take it to a Whole Foods, then it wouldn't be horrible.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Power delivery is better than any ICE vehicle.

Per mile cost is cheaper.

Maintenance is significantly less.

Point of use emissions are zero.

But beyond that, yeah, they're all just cars. Different strokes. Personal values/morals dictate whether someone wants to consider one or not.

Not totally on board with all of these, but okay, a case can be made for all of these from a certain point of view.