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Old 10-05-2015, 02:13 PM   #1
Monk_Knight
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Default Swapped in a 2015 steering rack... now chasing problems

First off, starting a new thread because the existing 2015 STI Steering Rack thread is for the GD and older bodies and I don't want to clutter that up.

I have a 2010 STi hatch that I just swapped in a 2015 STI steering rack into and now I have a problem.

Going around moderately sweeping corners (~40 degrees) it feels like the car abruptly hits the brakes. Often accompanied by more of a grinding or binding type noise in the front. Oddly enough, the issue doesn't seem to occur if the car is being driven hard.

It was accompanied by a VDC traction slipping light and only occurred when off the throttle. After resetting/recalibrating the steering wheel angle sensor it occurs whether on throttle or off and there is no more slip light. Turning off traction control solves the problem.

When my mechanic plugged in a diagnostics computer and we did a quick run, the computer was showing that in those corners, some of the wheel speed sensors would read differently from others right when the issue was occurring.
One time it threw a code 071 for steering wheel angle sensor issues, after we cleared it, it didn't come back.

Really struggling here... it sure seems like the quicker rack ratio is screwing up the VDC, but it doesn't seem plausible that so many others have done this swap into a GR but randomly mine doesn't like it. The folks over at IWSTI seem to have that point of view as well.

Help?

TL;DR: Swapped in 2015 STi Steering Rack, now wheel speed sensors are reading oddly and the car drives strangely.
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:15 PM   #2
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Background info on car just in case it matters...

Car is a 2010 STi hatch.

Steering/suspension mods are limited to swaybars, endlinks, the '15 rack, steering rack bushings, cusco steering rack brace, and camber bolts.

Car got an alignment immediately after install, stock specs except for -1.8 degrees camber in front. Stock wheels, stock tire size.

We've gone over and over the underside and nothing seems loose or hitting or anything.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:31 PM   #3
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Monk_knight did you ever solve this issue?
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:38 PM   #4
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He hasn't. He needs to take the sensors and troubleshoot them or replace them. It's not the rack. Either the sensors were damaged on install or they were slightly defective before and the rack just made the issue more obvious.
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Old 01-09-2016, 04:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noximus View Post
He hasn't. He needs to take the sensors and troubleshoot them or replace them. It's not the rack. Either the sensors were damaged on install or they were slightly defective before and the rack just made the issue more obvious.
Thanks, I have been following the thread on IWSTI, but didn't see a resolution to this issue. EDIT: just saw he posted an update that said still broken.

How easy / hard is it to damage the steering angle sensors during the installation? Aren't they no where near the tie rod ends?

Last edited by Macm; 01-09-2016 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macm View Post
Thanks, I have been following the thread on IWSTI, but didn't see a resolution to this issue. EDIT: just saw he posted an update that said still broken.

How easy / hard is it to damage the steering angle sensors during the installation? Aren't they no where near the tie rod ends?

The steering angle sensor is between the steering wheel and the steering column. You shouldn't affect this one unless you turn or hit the steering column knuckle after it's been detached.

The wheel speed sensor and the abs sensor are near the tie rods though. Your playing in that general area. For example, my tech had to detach one wheel assembly from the control arm to remove some tension on one side to allow us to slide it out and slide the 2015 in. The FSM doesn't state to do this but it just made it so much easier.

All three of these sensors who provide input to the VDC "could" be damaged during the install, but shouldn't in most cases.

There are many people who have done this. I and others went to the dealers, others went to shops, and even some DIY on their garage floor. No has ever had any issues he's reporting. There is some troubleshooting to be done here before blaming the rack, but it's very possible if all the sensors pan out that it could be a one off bad rack from Subaru.
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:11 AM   #7
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Would a bad wheel speed sensor issue not cause a CEL/ABS/VCD light all the time? Sounds more like the vcd is not liking the correlation between wheel speed and steering angle with the quicker rack.
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:47 AM   #8
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I have the 2015 STI rack, and in my case the VDC decided to disable itself. The VDC light is permanently illuminated and the Hill Assist light is permanently illuminated. No codes have been thrown.

I dont care though , I prefer having both of those systems disabled.
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Old 01-10-2016, 01:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScootBaloo View Post
I have the 2015 STI rack, and in my case the VDC decided to disable itself. The VDC light is permanently illuminated and the Hill Assist light is permanently illuminated. No codes have been thrown.



I dont care though , I prefer having both of those systems disabled.

Dayum, you're the second person I've heard of to have issues in over 50 people now. What's your Model Year? Have you done any troubleshooting at all yet?
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Noximus View Post
Dayum, you're the second person I've heard of to have issues in over 50 people now. What's your Model Year? Have you done any troubleshooting at all yet?
My car is a My11 WRX ( GR Chassis ).

I have not done any trouble shooting myself, but the guys at the workshop were unable to find the issue, I dont know what they tried to do though.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:40 AM   #11
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Is there any abruptness or binding in the steering when making these turns?
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:03 PM   #12
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Default Swapped in a 2015 steering rack... now chasing problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenliu84 View Post
Is there any abruptness or binding in the steering when making these turns?

I'm not sure who you're talking to, but the 2015 rack is the same smoothness as the GR, you just have turn the wheel less to make the same turn.

https://youtu.be/xh6FY9Tq5Jo
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:51 AM   #13
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I was asking the OP about his issue.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:11 PM   #14
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Having the same issue with my 09 WRX. Going uphill in a left hand corner the VDC will tag the left front brake.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by wrxgunr View Post
Having the same issue with my 09 WRX. Going uphill in a left hand corner the VDC will tag the left front brake.
Sounds like you have a problem with the wheel speed sensor at the left front corner, then.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:52 PM   #16
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I seem to be having the same issue. 2011 STI with 2015 rack.

I'm getting the same "grinding" or "binding" noise. Originally I thought the ball joint or CV joint on the right side was going bad. This would only happen on a particular 90deg left hander. I thought maybe there was an engine problem initially, but it happens whether I'm coasting or on throttle around the corner. It happens after the apex of the corner, almost as if it was after the car suspension took a set. Hence my thought about CV or ball joint.

Because this thread popped up, I decided to try the same corner with the traction control off (single press of the button)... AND IT GOES AWAY!!

I have datalogs of both setting, but I don't think they'll show the traction control working. Below is a video of it happening, and not happening with traction off.

It does happen on both left and right turns, but I always notice it on this particular 90deg left turn.

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Old 05-05-2016, 09:22 AM   #17
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I'm having this issue as well. '12 STi w/ '15 rack.

The car will "bog down" on corners where I'm hitting the throttle after apex, which I take it is VDC kicking in. Turn off TC (one button push, green icon), and the car handles normally. It's not on every corner, so it's been hard to narrow down, but most recently it's occured on 90 degree turns.

This has happened ever since I got the swap, though fairly rarely. I just figured that it was me getting too ham fisted in corners and the car was reinging me in, but it happens when I'm not really doing anything too crazy during my normal daily drive. With the TC off, the car feels fantastic.

I'll take my AP out with me the next few drives and see if I can induce the behavior and pull a code.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:43 AM   #18
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Ok so I can confirm I have the same issue! When doing spirited driving around a hard corner at decent speeds the car would feel like it all of a sudden is braking then quickly regains normal steering feeling.

The only fix so far is to turn off the traction control. This completely removes the issue? Anyone have any ideas how I can fix it permanently without having to turn traction control off every time? Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

2012 WRX with JDM 2016 STI Steering Rack!
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:06 AM   #19
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Doing a little reading, it seems that there is an ABS diagnostic port that we may be able to use to read ABS codes, so that may be a good place to start. Problem is, I think newer cars may have to be read by a special Subaru device, whereas older models would flash the last 3 codes on dash. If that's the case, I'm going to take the car in to a local shop who can read the codes. Would the AP be able to display these as well?

My assumption though, is that if the steering angle sensor is being fooled by the shorter '15 steering ratio, VDC thinks that the wheels are pointed in a super tight turn but the car is still moving forward... aka, it thinks the car is sliding while trying to make a turn. There was a member on here in one of the '15 rack threads that said that he created a device that up-converted the signal in order to work with the slower rack of the pre-'15 cars: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=512. I messaged him for info, but received no response as yet.

I'm hoping though that it's something simple, like a malfunctioning wheel/ABS speed sensor that needs cleaning.

Last edited by KManZ; 05-05-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManZ View Post
Doing a little reading, it seems that there is an ABS diagnostic port that we may be able to use to read ABS codes, so that may be a good place to start. Problem is, I think newer cars may have to be read by a special Subaru device, whereas older models would flash the last 3 codes on dash. If that's the case, I'm going to take the car in to a local shop who can read the codes. Would the AP be able to display these as well?
FreeSSM or a true SSM will work for ABS/TCM code read-out on the GD series cars. I do not know if FreeSSM will function on the GR+ however.

The dash read-out on GD series cars was unreliable and would produce false positives occasionally, even with no codes stored. Take these read-outs with a grain of salt.

The AP will not be able to read these codes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KManZ View Post
My assumption though, is that if the steering angle sensor is being fooled by the shorter '15 steering ratio, VDC thinks that the wheels are pointed in a super tight turn but the car is still moving forward... aka, it thinks the car is sliding while trying to make a turn. There was a member on here in one of the '15 rack threads that said that he created a device that up-converted the signal in order to work with the slower rack of the pre-'15 cars: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=512. I messaged him for info, but received no response as yet.

I'm hoping though that it's something simple, like a malfunctioning wheel/ABS speed sensor that needs cleaning.
STI steering angle sensors have been common among all rack ratios in any given generation.

i.e. a 2006 USDM STI used the same SAS as the 2006 JDM Spec C (13:1); a GR SAS was used across all trims (WRX, STI, even other models such as Forester and Crosstrek); 2015+ is the same story.

While you are welcome to proceed down this path - I believe this fact alone makes it a poor choice.
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
FreeSSM or a true SSM will work for ABS/TCM code read-out on the GD series cars. I do not know if FreeSSM will function on the GR+ however.

The dash read-out on GD series cars was unreliable and would produce false positives occasionally, even with no codes stored. Take these read-outs with a grain of salt.

The AP will not be able to read these codes.



STI steering angle sensors have been common among all rack ratios in any given generation.

i.e. a 2006 USDM STI used the same SAS as the 2006 JDM Spec C (13:1); a GR SAS was used across all trims (WRX, STI, even other models such as Forester and Crosstrek); 2015+ is the same story.

While you are welcome to proceed down this path - I believe this fact alone makes it a poor choice.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the 2015 have a different SAS than the GR then? And if so, with a faster rack the GR SAS would be reporting back a mismatched wheel angle than should be associated with the amount of steering wheel I input (or something like that, it's damn confusing).

All this being said, since turning TC off stops the behavior, it's not as big of deal as I earlier thought.
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:36 PM   #22
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My question: is driving with traction control turned off bad? What are the pros and cons. I know one of the cons for me is the stupid yellow traction control light that appears. My OCD kicks in when I see this lol.
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:41 PM   #23
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Hmm why don't we just contact Subaru Japan and ask them what they did to solve the problem with their s206 model which comes standard with a 13:1 ratio rack. I wish it could be that easy.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManZ View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the 2015 have a different SAS than the GR then? And if so, with a faster rack the GR SAS would be reporting back a mismatched wheel angle than should be associated with the amount of steering wheel I input (or something like that, it's damn confusing).

All this being said, since turning TC off stops the behavior, it's not as big of deal as I earlier thought.
Yes, the 2015 has a different SAS. What I'm telling you is that the GR-series cars used the same exact SAS regardless of what rack was factory installed (this includes the RHD Spec C 13:1 rack).

The VDC module could be (and probably was) a different part number. Whether or not a JDM VDC will solve your problems (or even function with USDM wiring) is up in the air, but I'm just telling you is that the SAS is definitely the wrong path to go down in trying to resolve this.

So far, I'm finding only a few part numbers for this:

27596FG020 (2008-2009 STI inc. JDM)
27596FG090 -> 27596FG091 (2010+ STI inc. JDM)

27596FG060 JDM GRB w/EJ257

Unfortunately, my resources for parts no. lookup past 2010 aren't the greatest... and this is really the time frame I'd need to verify these things due to the Spec C coming out that year.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 05-05-2016 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessionz View Post
My question: is driving with traction control turned off bad? What are the pros and cons. I know one of the cons for me is the stupid yellow traction control light that appears. My OCD kicks in when I see this lol.

It's not bad per say as long as your defensive driving abilities or manual counter maneuvers can supplement what the traction control no longer provides as correction in the case of an event.




I'm really sorry for those of you having issues. I can tell you without a doubt that mine does NOT do this on my 09 STI on any VDC modes. I even AutoX with mine (tested on all three VDC settings) without any issues at all.
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