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Old 03-15-2019, 02:07 PM   #26
SubaDuba420
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This just popped up in my youtube list, seemed appropriate:

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Cliffs: RCR guy not a huge fan, recommends you save the $10G and get a GTI...Also compares it to a Buick Regal GS
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:35 PM   #27
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The problem with the GTI to R comparison is content. Current Golf R is loaded with little or no additions you can make to it whereas you can add options to the GTI above that price.

If you came out with a $50k Golf R even with 400hp that would only sell in limited quantities. If you came out with a 400hp Golf R at $40k that you could option up to $50k that would be more palatable to more people.

Mustang GT's go from Mid 30's to the upper 40's, let alone specials like the Bullet, Convertible, etc
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Yeah, believe me, I recognize the limited risk. But at the same time, what if something did happen, and a passenger in our car was killed. There's no taking back Subaru's bolded statement to not put someone in a passenger seat. Once it's stated, any decision otherwise would be viewed in any court of law as reckless and irresponsible. Do I think something would happen? No. But if it did... not only would someone be dead, but we could be on the hook for manslaughter. Sorry, but I'd rather sit in the back seat, or trade the car in (with written disclaimer that the recall had not yet been completed because of local availability), than risk being held responsible for a reckless decision counter to Subaru's recall statement. I blame Subaru for this, and am quite upset. Takata recalls started way back in 2008, why the hell Subaru put a faulty airbag into a 2014 production car blows me away. I know Subaru was not the only brand that did it, but Subaru was the only brand that affected my life.


They intentionally make it an exclusive club, for sure. The price would be better, but only because there's more demand than availability. They keep things limited to keep the price high. And I don't mind it too much, because resale value will be pretty darn good.

Check
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
The problem with the GTI to R comparison is content. Current Golf R is loaded with little or no additions you can make to it whereas you can add options to the GTI above that price.

If you came out with a $50k Golf R even with 400hp that would only sell in limited quantities. If you came out with a 400hp Golf R at $40k that you could option up to $50k that would be more palatable to more people.

Mustang GT's go from Mid 30's to the upper 40's, let alone specials like the Bullet, Convertible, etc
^^^ Agreed.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:25 PM   #30
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Golf R Sportwagen?

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Old 03-15-2019, 05:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
The problem with the GTI to R comparison is content. Current Golf R is loaded with little or no additions you can make to it whereas you can add options to the GTI above that price.

If you came out with a $50k Golf R even with 400hp that would only sell in limited quantities. If you came out with a 400hp Golf R at $40k that you could option up to $50k that would be more palatable to more people.

Mustang GT's go from Mid 30's to the upper 40's, let alone specials like the Bullet, Convertible, etc
VW sold 3,500 Golf R's, and just about 17,000 GTI's in 2018. Ford sold more than 75,000 Mustangs. Pretty sure you can figure out why there's only 2 configurations available on the R while the GTI and Mustang have much more variation... I guess the question is though, are the reduced sales due to the lack of variation, or the other way around.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
This just popped up in my youtube list, seemed appropriate:

NSFW language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5bBpN_h2Cs

Cliffs: RCR guy not a huge fan, recommends you save the $10G and get a GTI...Also compares it to a Buick Regal GS
terrible review from start to finish.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
VW sold 3,500 Golf R's, and just about 17,000 GTI's in 2018. Ford sold more than 75,000 Mustangs. Pretty sure you can figure out why there's only 2 configurations available on the R while the GTI and Mustang have much more variation... I guess the question is though, are the reduced sales due to the lack of variation, or the other way around.
How many Focus RS did Ford sell? The hot hatch market is purely niche and it doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a low volume car with plenty of options. It's why we will probably never see the WRX/STI offered in two different body styles again.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
VW sold 3,500 Golf R's, and just about 17,000 GTI's in 2018. Ford sold more than 75,000 Mustangs. Pretty sure you can figure out why there's only 2 configurations available on the R while the GTI and Mustang have much more variation... I guess the question is though, are the reduced sales due to the lack of variation, or the other way around.
How many did they sell in 2017 when they had 4 configs?
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:26 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
This just popped up in my youtube list, seemed appropriate:

NSFW language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5bBpN_h2Cs

Cliffs: RCR guy not a huge fan, recommends you save the $10G and get a GTI...Also compares it to a Buick Regal GS
Agreed. Very bland car all around in comparison to the competition but I still like them because of the subtle styling and upscale feel.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Yeah, believe me, I recognize the limited risk. But at the same time, what if something did happen, and a passenger in our car was killed. There's no taking back Subaru's bolded statement to not put someone in a passenger seat. Once it's stated, any decision otherwise would be viewed in any court of law as reckless and irresponsible. Do I think something would happen? No. But if it did... not only would someone be dead, but we could be on the hook for manslaughter. Sorry, but I'd rather sit in the back seat, or trade the car in (with written disclaimer that the recall had not yet been completed because of local availability), than risk being held responsible for a reckless decision counter to Subaru's recall statement. I blame Subaru for this, and am quite upset. Takata recalls started way back in 2008, why the hell Subaru put a faulty airbag into a 2014 production car blows me away. I know Subaru was not the only brand that did it, but Subaru was the only brand that affected my life.


They intentionally make it an exclusive club, for sure. The price would be better, but only because there's more demand than availability. They keep things limited to keep the price high. And I don't mind it too much, because resale value will be pretty darn good.

You're crazy if you think a jury would side with Subaru cause of some letter saying don't put someone in the front seat while you wait months for a recall.

If your Subaru airbag explodes like a Claymore mine, you're gonna get a big settlement, don't worry.

There have been 17 deaths out of 50 million airbags. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:16 PM   #37
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They seem to be doing a great job competing in the SUV market so maybe they will figure it out how it's customers that decide what they will pay. Methinks the Audi and Porsche folks would never allow R at low cost.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:56 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
You're crazy if you think a jury would side with Subaru cause of some letter saying don't put someone in the front seat while you wait months for a recall.

If your Subaru airbag explodes like a Claymore mine, you're gonna get a big settlement, don't worry.

There have been 17 deaths out of 50 million airbags. I wouldn't sweat it.
A settlement doesn't matter if I'm dead, or my wife is dead.

Just not a risk I'm willing to take. Plus, it gives me a reason to complain.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:57 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by shake-rattle-n-roll View Post
How many did they sell in 2017 when they had 4 configs?
2706.

Basically they sell what they make. Most go for MSRP or close to it, since there's more demand than supply. Manuals sit on lots longer than DSG's, which makes sense since the DSG opens the door to a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise consider a performance car that only had a manual transmission.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:37 PM   #40
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I would want a Golf R specifically for the DSG. Not many good performance options out there for a reasonable price with a dual clutch...
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:51 PM   #41
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I would want a Golf R specifically for the DSG. Not many good performance options out there for a reasonable price with a dual clutch...
The DSG guys love it. Although there are some complaints out there on the OEM tuning for it, especially the newer 7 speed... One, you've gotta tune it if you want to run more than stock power. And two, it often doesn't have the right gear prepped, taking a preference of economy over performance, leaving you like a sitting duck when you're expecting downshift power. TCU tunes seem to fix most of it.

I was thrilled to get the car in a stick though. Really suits the car well and dials back the overly computerized nature of the car, making it still seem like a performance car. I watch these quarter mile and 0-60 pulls on the DSG. And yea, it's fast, but the driver did absolutely nothing but mash the pedal to the floor, the car does literally everything. Hell, if you have the driver assistance package it'll even keep the car going straight down the track. That's not driving.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:28 PM   #42
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The DSG guys love it. Although there are some complaints out there on the OEM tuning for it, especially the newer 7 speed... One, you've gotta tune it if you want to run more than stock power. And two, it often doesn't have the right gear prepped, taking a preference of economy over performance, leaving you like a sitting duck when you're expecting downshift power. TCU tunes seem to fix most of it.

I was thrilled to get the car in a stick though. Really suits the car well and dials back the overly computerized nature of the car, making it still seem like a performance car. I watch these quarter mile and 0-60 pulls on the DSG. And yea, it's fast, but the driver did absolutely nothing but mash the pedal to the floor, the car does literally everything. Hell, if you have the driver assistance package it'll even keep the car going straight down the track. That's not driving.
I test drove a 2018 GTI in 6MT and DSG, definitely the stick was more fun, didn't find the DSG any more fun than a typical automatic. Better than a CVT, lol.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:23 PM   #43
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I don’t get the argument the car isn’t in the right gear when you need it to be. Drive it like a manual with the paddles if it bothers you. When you just wanna cruise around in stop and go put it in auto. For flat out track work you can do either as the need to go from nothing to everything doesn’t exist. A manual still needs to be shifted down for those unsuspecting F&F moments. Like who’s putting around at 4500 rpms waiting for the next victim? And why not do the same with the DSG? What I’m hearing is people who get the DSG and complain are damn lazy complacent tools.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:41 PM   #44
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Golf R Sportwagen?

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Ach, ja.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:59 PM   #45
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I don’t get the argument the car isn’t in the right gear when you need it to be. Drive it like a manual with the paddles if it bothers you. When you just wanna cruise around in stop and go put it in auto. For flat out track work you can do either as the need to go from nothing to everything doesn’t exist. A manual still needs to be shifted down for those unsuspecting F&F moments. Like who’s putting around at 4500 rpms waiting for the next victim? And why not do the same with the DSG? What I’m hearing is people who get the DSG and complain are damn lazy complacent tools.
It's a very common complaint, and people who have had both say it's worse with the new 7 speed (18+) than the 6 speed. Under moderate acceleration, mash the pedal and the car falls flat on it's face for a second presumably because it had the wrong gear prepped. I have not experienced this myself obviously, so I'm just relaying what I have read. There are also other issues with it banging redline occasionally instead of shifting.

The point is not that it's a failure of a transmission, but that it's still an automatic, subject to a computer. I can drive my outback in "manual" mode too, but somehow people expect more out of a DSG than a CVT, even though they're all completely computer controlled devices.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:27 PM   #46
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If you are putting around and floor it the 7 speed occasionally takes a second to go down a few gears. It never happens in sport or if you floor it to the kickdown switch and then all the way down a fraction of a second later. No tcu tune is needed for more power unless you are upgrading the turbo or running ethanol.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:57 PM   #47
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If you are putting around and floor it the 7 speed occasionally takes a second to go down a few gears. It never happens in sport or if you floor it to the kickdown switch and then all the way down a fraction of a second later. No tcu tune is needed for more power unless you are upgrading the turbo or running ethanol.
I was reading that stage 2 is pretty much TCU tune territory... Is the new 7speed more robust? I try to stay out of the dsg threads.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:13 PM   #48
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Are there a lot of caught sleeping in 6th threads where people complain about being in the wrong gear so manual trans is the suck? To me it’s the same exact thing.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:37 PM   #49
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I test drove a 2018 GTI in 6MT and DSG, definitely the stick was more fun, didn't find the DSG any more fun than a typical automatic. Better than a CVT, lol.
I had a new MK7 GTI Autobahn with DSG while owning my current MK7 Golf-R with MT and you're right, the DSG was boring to me too for weekend drives. I guess acceptable as daily driver just as long as the front tires grip when WOT, but I still preferred MT.

While DSG is a little more like MT vs torque converter AT, most performance torque converter AT locks in all gears (except 1st and reverse at low speeds) so there's really no benefit over high performance planetary AT cars. It's much better than ordinary car AT's though.

The biggest complaint for DSG for me was when punching out of a congested lane from a crawl into the adjacent open lane. The car just bogs where as MT you can disengage the clutch, rev up, then quickly re-engage gently without bogging the engine or heating up your clutch. Can't use launch control while crawling.. Sold the GTI and never missed it once since.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:09 PM   #50
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There are three things that are rarely mentioned in the DSG vs. Auto debate:

1) D vs. S - There are two modes for the DSG, D and S. You can change it by flicking the gear shifter down. D is for normal driving as it tries to stay in higher gears while S is the sport mode and does a great job of staying in the correct gear and even downshifting nicely when slowing down.
I used D when in traffic or cruising, S when accelerating or having fun. If you only drove one in D mode you would hate it because it takes awhile to downshift when acelerating.
Manual mode I rarely used for actual performance driving because S always was in the right gear, and it was measurably faster during autocross than manually shifting, especially since I could focus 100% on braking zones and steering inputs.

2) The manual had terrible gearing. This isn't just a VW issue, Porsche gears their manual transmissions too high as well. But with a GTI is especially bad as that turbo is designed for low end power. It adds to the speed difference between the two transmissions. The gearing difference was another factor as to why my DSG GTI was so quick during autox.

3) The manual clutch is weak. If you plan on modding a GTI or R, the clutch needs upgrading almost immediately. The DSG holds much more power. Heck look at the RS3/TTRS and how much power people are putting through those cars and how quick they are!

Now I know all the anti-auto crowd will scream that the manual is more fun, but 3 of my last 4 manual trans cars have had issues with grinding gears from the factory. I think I'm done with them.
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