Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Classifieds > New Product Development

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2013, 10:51 AM   #351
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... I'm contemplating if a SS version even needs to exist?

I'm making a TS manifold from 304 just as a one off for testing. Please excuse the rough sketch...

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-20-2013, 11:12 AM   #352
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Meanwhile, back at the ranch... I'm contemplating if a SS version even needs to exist?

I'm making a TS manifold from 304 just as a one off for testing. Please excuse the rough sketch...
It seems that if you have the TS housing options available then a SS is probably not needed. Especially with your merged EWG collector.
manitou is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #353
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

That's what I'm thinking... Unless the added cost doesn't equal the added performance.

Thoughts?
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #354
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

How much added cost will there be? It can't be much.
manitou is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #355
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:21 PM   #356
Vlad
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
19 GLA45 AMG
C63 AMG

Default

I thought that Garrett came up with quadscroll couple years ago. This may be an easy application, with your design and if possible would make your kit even more unique.
Vlad is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #357
JRach
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78075
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: North Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
98' SF5 STI
93' GF8 (rally)

Default

Really interested in any gains realized from low mount TS vs. low mount.

Would you be running a singe wastegate for the TS set up as well (keeping the two halves separate all the way to the wastegate)?

ex: how I have my single wastegate set-up on my low mount twin scroll set-up... (this shows just half of it before adding the second pipe, but you can see it divided all the way to where the wastegate would be).

[IMG][/IMG]
JRach is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 02:26 PM   #358
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I thought that Garrett came up with quadscroll couple years ago.
As far as I know there were pictures posted, but it was nothing more than an April fools joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRach View Post
Would you be running a singe wastegate for the TS set up as well (keeping the two halves separate all the way to the wastegate)?
Yes...

KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #359
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
Maxwell Power is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #360
V3rtigo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 262020
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee
Vehicle:
2006 AP2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
The casting on these looks thick enough on that divider that it wouldn't have this issue. This piece is sourced from garrett iirc and it would be reasonable to assume that they've done some testing on their product.
V3rtigo is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #361
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
That was a while back and IIRC they were a welded in piece of sheet-metal, and it was made from 304. So at the base, where it intersects the secondaries the thickness is 5/16" and it tapers thinner as it gets closer to the valve. Plus we are using the titanium alloyed version of 304 (AKA: SS321/347) so it is better suited for the temps as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rtigo View Post
The casting on these looks thick enough on that divider that it wouldn't have this issue. This piece is sourced from garrett iirc and it would be reasonable to assume that they've done some testing on their product.
This cast adapter is our part. Garrett was very helpful in providing their housing data/dimensions, but this parts was not sourced from them.
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #362
lemming
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 250066
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Duvall, WA
Vehicle:
'06 Forester XT
'03 Rustang LQ4 Turbo

Default

That seems like a pretty cool fabrication part for a lot of other applications. Thinking of selling it separately and/or designing a T4 flange version?
lemming is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #363
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
That's a bit more than what I would have thought. What value are you putting on the adapter? Since its cast what qty are you amortizing the tooling and mold cost over. You designed that as a stand alone part and it has good potential for sales across many platforms and this kit as well.
manitou is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 06:59 PM   #364
mmenet
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 191736
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: madison wisconsin
Vehicle:
2009 WRX Hatch
grey

Default

I love how the twin scroll header change simplifies the entire setup. I am seriously considering buying an 04 simply to get to use this part sooner, as I know it will be years before you get to changing the design for my 09. your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
mmenet is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 08:58 PM   #365
reid-o
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
If you can get the runners Mandel bent wont the welding be the same? There's just an additional merge.
Unless the shapes are too complex and then the welding was cheaper if the bender rapes you.

The other way is to make the cast part 4-1 using the same wastegate merge.
The diesel study says that split pulse should perform like a housing 80-90% of its size in a single scroll and produce torque curve like a housing 60-70% of its size single scroll. Seeing as how garret now offers .83 and 1.01, which matches .63 and .82, I don't see a need for single scroll versions. After actually reading the study, I think their conclusions were spot on for the most part.

Peoples expectations have just been unreasonable. I've been looking at graphs and found that the study was pretty accurate.
reid-o is offline  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:06 PM   #366
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
That seems like a pretty cool fabrication part for a lot of other applications. Thinking of selling it separately and/or designing a T4 flange version?
We've been approached by a few others. If there is enough demand we'll make a T4 version. T4 will not work with this kit without modification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
That's a bit more than what I would have thought. What value are you putting on the adapter? Since its cast what qty are you amortizing the tooling and mold cost over. You designed that as a stand alone part and it has good potential for sales across many platforms and this kit as well.
In small quantity there's no hard tooling but each cost is higher. In larger quantity the per piece price comes down, but the tooling is quite expensive and even in quantity 50 the per price leaves margins in a sad state, to sell them at a 'reasonable' price. I really don't see anywhere near 50 pieces moving each year, but that is speculation on my end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenet View Post
I love how the twin scroll header change simplifies the entire setup. I am seriously considering buying an 04 simply to get to use this part sooner, as I know it will be years before you get to changing the design for my 09. your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
I imagine the GR version to go much faster. The premise of the kit is the same and exhaust fitment changes are minor. The bigger challenge is the intercooler, but I've got some things going on there

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
If you can get the runners Mandel bent wont the welding be the same? There's just an additional merge.
Unless the shapes are too complex and then the welding was cheaper if the bender rapes you.
There's more tubing and if you look at the CAD sketch you can see the secondaries spiral from over-under to side-by-side. The geometry is tight to the point that it can't be formed and will require more fit-up, fixturing, welding and finishing
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 09:29 PM   #367
Tyrial
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284392
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: North Charleston, SC
Vehicle:
2011 STI Limited
Plasma Blue Pearl

Default

Well, I'm planning on saving up money for this...

I'm awaiting GR results as usual
Tyrial is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 11:23 PM   #368
panda97
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 350494
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Maple Ridge and Burnaby
Vehicle:
2012 SWP GRB STI
2001 Red MR-S

Default

^

Same here!!!
panda97 is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 07:30 AM   #369
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenet View Post
your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
Pretty sure it does NOT come with a turbo for that price.
Paul is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #370
V3rtigo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 262020
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee
Vehicle:
2006 AP2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Pretty sure it does NOT come with a turbo for that price.
+1

It would be nice to see a list of what it will come with though.
V3rtigo is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 01:07 PM   #371
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

I've 86% sure it was posted in here at some point, but on the slight chance I'm wrong...

Header
Down-Pipe
Up-Pipe
Dump Tube
Front Mount Intercooler
Radiator
Upper Radiator Support
Lower Radiator Support
Brackets
Bumper Beam
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 02:03 PM   #372
panda97
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 350494
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Maple Ridge and Burnaby
Vehicle:
2012 SWP GRB STI
2001 Red MR-S

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I've 86% sure it was posted in here at some point, but on the slight chance I'm wrong...

Header
Down-Pipe
Up-Pipe
Dump Tube
Front Mount Intercooler
Radiator
Upper Radiator Support
Lower Radiator Support
Brackets
Bumper Beam
How much would that roughly be for a TS GR?
And a GT35 would work for that?
panda97 is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 02:06 PM   #373
V3rtigo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 262020
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee
Vehicle:
2006 AP2

Default

Intercooler piping?

BTW I'll volunteer for the GR/GV kit beta test if you need someone
V3rtigo is offline  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:00 AM   #374
rallyweapon11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 318306
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Default

Were you planning on running an open dump from the EWG or will there be piping into the down-pipe? i saw you mention there will be a dump tube in the kit above, but wanted to check....
rallyweapon11 is offline  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:56 PM   #375
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

I'm running an open dump right now. I was really surprised how much you can get it to scoot without opening it and scaring the b-jesus out of everyone. Although I do enjoy the WTF was that expressions from innocent bystanders.

Going recirc means a larger than 3" cat-back IMO to get anywhere near open's performance levels. I'm not quite ready to take that one on yet.
KillerBMotorsport is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.