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Old 04-20-2018, 09:08 AM   #51
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I wouldn't worry too much about the litigation stuff having a negative effect on things, it happens and is a sad part of motorsports as so much money is involved.

All I have to go by is what I've read in a few articles, but Colin Dyne sure doesn't sound like someone you'd want to do business with. I think Subaru will make out fine as GRC was a sinking ship that they weren't obligated to go down with.

If anyone's interested, Jim Beaver's "Down and Dirty Radio Show" had Steve Arpin on this week and he talked about his involvement with Ken Block and Hoonigan Racing going forward with the Americas Rallycross Series. It sounds like the series plans to expand their schedule significantly in 2019...
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:09 PM   #52
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This weekend begins the new ARA Rallycross series. Watch it live and free on their facebook page:

https://facebook.com/ARXRallycross

Times to be announced soon.

Line-up:



Instagram feed: @arxrallycross

Looking very forward to see how the team does!
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:15 PM   #53
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Sandell kicked ass last week at Oregon trail rally
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:31 PM   #54
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Relieved to see it will be streamed. Higgins must be getting some serious frequent flyer miles seeing he did Olympus, is competing in Silverstone and then STPR next week.... Not a bad group of cars on the roster already but I expected Ford with Steve Arpin. He must be holding off til next round.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:43 PM   #55
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:02 PM   #56
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Hmm, I thought Loenbro had switched over to ARX as well, with a deal with Hoonigan...?
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:21 PM   #57
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edited

Last edited by Bansheeboy11; 05-23-2018 at 04:02 PM. Reason: oops
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:31 PM   #58
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One seriously awesome looking Subie!

Would love to see this in WRblue!



PC: Dan Anctil's IG



PC: Chris Atkinson's FB

Last edited by Shik; 05-23-2018 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:37 AM   #59
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Arpin is rebuilding Block's previous World RX cars. He will run starting after Silverstone
Block will run select events also.
Honda is rumored to enter.

Liam Doran has also entered at Silverstone in a DS3
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:31 AM   #60
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:45 PM   #61
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Last race of the season for the ARX guys.

The SRT cars all sporting the "Type RA'sih" rear wing as well.

Check out the races at www.arxrallycross.com/live or www.Facebook.com/SRTUSA .

Hoping for a good finish to the season!

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Old 10-01-2018, 10:15 AM   #62
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Hugely frustrated with this last weekend. The Nitro races last week seemed to show an improvement in the starts as the VW's didn't seem to jump ahead off the line. I thought that the (possible) elimination of the handicap Subaru suffered off the line coupled with the reduced drag from the rear wing meant a breakthrough was imminent. Atkinson never seemed to get a clear run into turn 1 all weekend and Sandell was turned before his race really got going.

Heikkinen was a good addition and hopefully will be back but all in all I have to imagine the whole team has to look at this year as a huge disappointment with no podiums. With the engineering talent and effort they put in, have to think that the chassis has yielded all it can and it may never be enough....
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:01 PM   #63
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I'm still in the torque inquiry....

The big Focus RS-RX and Subies did alright in qualifying.

Do you really think it is simply a wheelbase and overhang limitation at this point?
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:00 PM   #64
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I think the wheelbase is a huge issue, its roughly 5 inches longer than the rest of them. It might as well be a football field in difference, they might as well be driving dodge challengers around. This is what happens when companies use what they have, rather than building a homologation car to use for motorsports.
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:00 PM   #65
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I'm with you on the torque issue. The overhang is certainly a problem but I'm not convinced it's why the VW's have a car on us by the time they're at the top of 3rd gear on most starts. I've seen a few races in person and it's noticeable even more than on tv how the Beetles are rockets off the line.

Lance Smith seemed dejected after Canada and this past weekend has to be salt in the wound. I hope and imagine they will stick it out as long as Subaru backs the team but I can't imagine SOA wants to wait until the new car is debuted in a couple of years before a podium/win is achieved.

Would love to be a fly on the wall at VT Sportscar as they try to find more pace.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:02 PM   #66
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I still don't know why Subaru blew up the WRX wheelbase when they divorced it from the actual Impreza chassis.

I'm an obvious engine nerd and would love to work with the Vermont guys but I think they're happy with their internal program.

But then again Loenbro is literally 15 minutes from my house, and I've already done the Ford Performance side of things....all their engine stuff is done by M-sport for rally. We (former employer) got told no by Ford (we could only do on road racing) when Chip and crew came asking for help after 2015, before the team converted to Loenbro. Corporate party lines, yawn.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:41 PM   #67
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The wheelbase got longer because they turned it into a street car, if it was going to be used for homologation it most definitely would have been left to a 99-100" wheelbase.

I dont think power is the problem, i think the issue getting the power to the tires. Look at the rear suspension on the cars when you can, theres a few pics around of older years but they built a shortened trailing arm rear end for quite a while and i think this year they put a multi-link in one or two cars to test, every car has a fairly suspension different setup.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:21 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
The wheelbase got longer because they turned it into a street car, if it was going to be used for homologation it most definitely would have been left to a 99-100" wheelbase.
I'm more than well aware of why they lengthened it. My point is they made it the same wheelbase as the 3rd gen Legacy. Or 0.8" shorter than the 4th gen. Then fifth gen is when the Legacy jumped to 108.3". They doing like all cars have been doing...slowly making them all bigger instead of just making a third line....but Subaru actually made a third line when the Impreza and WRX stopped sharing a common chassis. So again, they could have left the WRX as the 'boy racer' car.

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I dont think power is the problem, i think the issue getting the power to the tires. Look at the rear suspension on the cars when you can, theres a few pics around of older years but they built a shortened trailing arm rear end for quite a while and i think this year they put a multi-link in one or two cars to test, every car has a fairly suspension different setup.
Right, so long arm vs short arm vs multilink....so which one worked, since you say their power was with getting power to the ground?
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:56 PM   #69
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The chassis "split" with the current gen is just marketing lingo to get people to buy the impreza as an economy car again. The "global chassis" they've been marketing in recent years is the same thing subaru has been doing since the 80s. They have no need to build another model with a shorter wheelbase. The only people who walk into a dealer to buy a new sti for building a race car is Vermont sports car, everyone else is just a high schooler with his parents co-signing his first car lol.

In terms of suspension design, i personally fe nothing beats the feedback and simplicity of a mcpherson/trailing arm setup, there are benefits of a multi-link but that shows more on road course where camber gain and bump steer need to be controlled a little better. The newer WRXs are monsters at autocross but feel like driving a couch in dirt, ill take an old GD/GC for a rally car any day of the week. Id love to get a ride in one of VSC's cars to see how they feel but no chance of that happening. The GD rally cars we run are consistantly quicker that the GR cars, we have no VA models in our class so i cant speak on how they stack up with us.
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:59 PM   #70
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Dig around for pics from the Andretti Beetles, the suspension on those are nuts
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:17 PM   #71
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My point was that they could have left the Impreza as a short wheelbase, which had sold fine from 93-07, have the Legacy or another car been that midrange and then had a giant grandpa car at the top of the range....like other car manufactures with three distinct sedan models.

As for MacPherson strut; it is simple, compact and light, I'll give you that. Probably works the shock more (shock volume) but that's neither here nor there. I can't testify to differences on dirt. I spend more time on road than anything else.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:49 PM   #72
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Lengthening the wheelbase means more available interior room, which equates to more rear legroom that subaru was lacking in throughout the 90s and 00s. Subaru had little to no motorsports feedback in their products from 08+ just the VSC guys and some small teams in local rally series around the world, nothing that mandated a model be changed to aid motorsports results. They had zero need for a car used for homologation. From 08-14 they spent trying a lot of different ideas with their cars and 14/15+ got into their groove with good road cars. Those years they spent trying to figure out what to do, every other car company was selling superior products.

Id like to read through an ARC rulebook if anyone has one, pretty sure they're competitor only though. Compare the current cars suspension with every other car they compete against, without having actualy specs and going by from what ive seen in person every other car has a much better suspension setup. Beetles and Fiestas have far more caster up front and more travel in the back. Find pics of the old GR cars, they just had beefed up versions of the factory multi-link rear end and those cars didnt do well at all, then with the VA chassis they started putting a trailing arm setup out back and the cars seemed to get more consistant results.

Id really love for someone to chime in from VSC, we could bicker about this crap for days.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:52 PM   #73
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It also doesnt help that almost no one who works here is an enthusiast, no one cares about racing or sports cars at all. The BRZ is literally holding on for dear life because Fuji believes in the idea of the car, not the sales numbers. If we had a whole office of enthusiasts to makes decisions on products it would be amazing, i would love nothing more than to have an STI division here in the states like they have overseas.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:35 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
It also doesnt help that almost no one who works here is an enthusiast, no one cares about racing or sports cars at all.
Which leads me to the question...

Why does SOA spend an absurd amount of money here in the States on racing or even have a Subaru Rally Team USA in the first place?

I love the marketing side of motorsports. I've always found the ads, logos, livery, negotiations with manufacturers, etc. of motorsports teams so intriguing.

With the amount of money that is spent on both the rally team and rallycross cars, surely someone at SOA is looking at this as a worthwhile investment. And if the SOA of today is anything like the SOA of the 90's, they are TIGHT with spending money, this I know first hand as I've dealt with them on numerous occasions when working for a dealership way back when. So it has got to be worth the expense somehow.

Just looking at WRX/WRX STi sales numbers here in the states, they have exploded since 2015. Why? Does Travis Pastrana and Red Bull and SRTUSA's total domination of rallying here in the US actually have an effect on WRX sales? Or are the inflated sales numbers just a bi-product of SOA's sales numbers explosion over the last 10 years, specifically the Impreza?

In other words, would the WRX and WRX STi still be seeing 30,000+ sold units annually if there was no SRTUSA?

When I go to shows such as Boxerfest, it is fairly obvious that the whole "rally" vibe that was synonymous with Subaru 15-20 years ago, does not resonate nearly as much with the newer Subaru owners of today. Few owners are sticker'ing their cars up to look like an SRTUSA rally or rallycross car. Method Racing wheels are not taking the Subaru community by storm the same way Speedline and Prodrive wheels did back in the day.

Yet, everyone still stands in lines to get the drivers' autographs and get a peek at the "factory" rally cars. At the rallycross races, despite VW's total domination the last few years, all the excitement is always at the Subaru pits, even though they've won nothing in years.

My take is that, the car culture in the US favors imports by a lot now. And, I mean in terms of what new kids perceive as a "performance car". My son is 16 and while he may or may not have been a bit brainwashed since he was born, even his friends rarely mention Mustangs or Camaros when talking about cars. They are like the "Dad" cars of today. The GT-R is very well known with the newer generations and the association of it's AWD and turbocharged power as being superior in the world of cars translates to the WRX very well at a fraction of the price. That, and the WRX's reputation of being a car used in motorsports keeps it high on the list of newer generations when they want a performance car.

So, I don't believe the SRTUSA directly results in more Subaru sales, but more so the performance image that SOA promotes through the SRTUSA and SOA's involvement with the big shows such as WBM and Boxerfest keeps the newer generations involved, thus, the WRX continues to be the weapon of choice for new car enthusiasts.

David Richards said many years ago, "You don't always have to win to be perceived as a winner". I'm sure VSC is giving it 110% and is frustrated beyond words after this year, but to SOA, wheelbase, suspension, and aero matter little as long as people's perception of the WRX remains as a performance car, and that perception continues to equate to sales numbers.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:15 PM   #75
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I think a lot of the success does come down to it being a year after year, available with a large after market, vehicle.

I got sucked into a Subaru by way of WRC when I was in high school. What sealed the deal for me is Subaru was the only car that was actually available and affordable with AWD. So I got a 96 Brighton and slapped a T28 turbo kit onto it before parting it out and getting a 02 WRX engine out of a wrecked car and swapping it in. Having a relatable car is what keeps the 'kids' interested.

My thoughts are still that Subaru should have made a third car to be the big car. Would the lack of wheelbase, and then obviously back seat leg room, hindered sales of Imprezas, sure. Would it still be the car for young men and guys that still have little kids, absolutely.

Could they then have the Legacy still fall where the Impreza does today, and then have a third car that finally get that turbo EZ powertrain? Sure. Of course, then they're splitting sales between three platforms.

The fact that their still dumping money into motorsports (that any company does it) is purely for tax reasons. That's all I can think. Having worked in motorsports and having friends still in it, it is dying. The spectacle and excitement that used to be there is gone. Rules and BOP have killed a lot of it. The modern attention span also can't go two seconds without looking at a phone, much less hours watching a race. I think this is part of why rallycross does well. It's fast paced and runs in heats. Little blasts of excitement.

If the ARX rules are like the GRC rules, it heavily favors certain cars. Subaru trying to shove weight back, shorten wheelbase, reduce polar moment weight as much as they can, is all just scrapping to keep up with short wheelbase cars with less overhang, more room to modify suspension, and undoubtedly more stroke in their custom engine blocks.
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