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Old 04-08-2013, 04:27 PM   #1
warpath
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Default Is Porsche About To Start Making A Turbo Four Cylinder?

Jalopnik: http://jalopnik.com/is-porsche-about...nder-471299928



Quote:
Porsche hasn't had a four cylinder engine in ages. Is that all about about to change?

The Porsche nuts over at Flat-6 News have reason to believe that the boxer sixes in the Boxster and Cayman are on the way out, to be replaced with a four-cylinder version of the 3.8 liter DFI flat-six in the 911.

Supposedly the little four banger will be 2.5 liters, turbocharged, and crank out around 350 horsepower and 360 pound-feet of torque. That means it would make more power than the engines in the Cayman S and Boxster S. That's a good thing.

Flat-6 News also says that a naturally aspirated version of the engine will be in a sub-Boxster performance car.

As always, take these rumors with numerous grains of salt.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:41 PM   #2
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That would be a mistake, I think.

Higher power, at what cost? linear engine response? Reliability? Heat soak?

An atmospheric H6 engine is a sublime, smooth machine.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
That would be a mistake, I think.
Maybe lighter weight? Smaller footprint?
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #4
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More MPGeebus's
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #5
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They need to make a flat 8.

Funk the hippies
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:46 PM   #6
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there are rumours about the flat 4 turbo since 2010
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by blubaru703 View Post
They need to make a flat 8.

Funk the hippies
There is rumor that the 960 (or 961, I see both numbers associated with Porsche's theoretical F458 killer) will get a flat-8. With four turbos.



If it does, and looks like anything between that rendering, and the 918RSR concept... Audi R8 and McLaren MP4-12C will both fall a position on my list of favorite cars.

I can only imagine a direct-injected up-flow* flat 8 with four twin-scroll, variable vane turbochargers with custom turbine chamber castings, bolted straight to the exhaust ports on the heads, and feeding a large 4-in-2-out intercooler assembly, and back into the under-slung intake runners, one on each side.

People are used to seeing twin scroll turbos with each chamber for a pair of exhaust ports... why not a turbo for a pair of adjacent cylinders, with one 'scroll' chamber per cylinder, with a minimum distance from exhaust valve to turbine... Especially if the adjacent pistons have a firing order directly out of phase with each other, and an even interval between pulses back and forth.

If it were to get a valvematic-like valve lift control system, in addition to the variocam dual cam timing adjustments... theoretically, the engine could be throttle-less, adjusting engine speed with valve timing and lift alone. One less impediment in the intake tract.

(*-dry intake manifold tubes on the bottom side, exhaust exiting upward to the top side of the engine)

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-08-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
More MPGeebus's
It always strikes me that in order to get higher miles per gallon, they try to employ turbochargers, which by definition, pressurize the engine, requiring and allowing more fuel to be burned.

They arrange mpg tests to maximize low-load driving cycles, (usually when turbos are not spooled) to make the numbers look good, then when people normally drive, and actually USE the throttle, observed fuel economy isn't what the 'official' ratings promised.

Direct injection helps to not require pig-rich mixtures, like EJ Subaru turbos use, to avoid detonation, and also allow the use of higher static compression ratios, which help an engine run more like a good atmospheric engine when the turbo isn't pressurizing the intake above ambient air pressure, but it isn't flouting the laws of chemistry or thermodynamics. Energy out requires that energy to be put in first, which is stored in the fuel, not in the air.

As much as I like the rush of turbos, there is still something sublime about a well tuned, responsive, atmospheric engine, and Porsche builds some beauties.

C'mon... 991 GT3-RS is rumored to make ~450-460-475 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8-4 liters, on an M97-derived block, not the previous metzger block, which had it's sunset with the 997 GT3-RS 4.0 this last year.

The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
It always strikes me that in order to get higher miles per gallon, they try to employ turbochargers, which by definition, pressurize the engine, requiring and allowing more fuel to be burned.

They arrange mpg tests to maximize low-load driving cycles, (usually when turbos are not spooled) to make the numbers look good, then when people normally drive, and actually USE the throttle, observed fuel economy isn't what the 'official' ratings promised.

Direct injection helps to not require pig-rich mixtures, like EJ Subaru turbos use, to avoid detonation, and also allow the use of higher static compression ratios, which help an engine run more like a good atmospheric engine when the turbo isn't pressurizing the intake above ambient air pressure, but it isn't flouting the laws of chemistry or thermodynamics. Energy out requires that energy to be put in first, which is stored in the fuel, not in the air.

As much as I like the rush of turbos, there is still something sublime about a well tuned, responsive, atmospheric engine, and Porsche builds some beauties.

C'mon... 991 GT3-RS is rumored to make ~450-460-475 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8-4 liters, on an M97-derived block, not the previous metzger block, which had it's sunset with the 997 GT3-RS 4.0 this last year.

The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
You are right, as the direct injection allows a more efficient off-boost compression ratio, but it's more to hit an EPA number. It an everyday car, I actually like that. The idea that I could putter on my commute, then blast around when I want to (saving gas when I need to drive and burn it all who cares when it's for pleasure). But for a Porsche a N/A motor is more enjoyable.

The two things I want to point out are, that when a motor is tuned for high revs, it's often lower on torque, causing you to need to rev it to make useful power(the same problem you get with off boost power). and the higher revs bring greater friction, reducing efficiency. Now, I agree that sporty cars could be better off with that setup, but the current one-size-fits-all EPA lends itself to the small motor/turbo programs so many use today.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
Peace bro..

I love a well tuned NA motor more than anything else as well. Turbos have their place for sure, but a powerful NA motor is a thing of beauty.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #11
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So everybody wants to bitch and moan about a turbo flat four and completely miss the mention of a sub Boxster sports car?

That is the real news here people. Sub Boxster means what? 45k give or take? A return of the 944 perhaps?
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:41 PM   #12
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return of the 944 perhaps?
Do want. The 944 was one of the most awesome cars I've owned. It had 0 body roll and felt considerably lighter and more responsive than even my s. The power BLEW nuts, but I doubt porsche would do that again. I never had interest in 80's turbo cars. Too scared of reliability.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:23 AM   #13
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they did mention the return of the 914 a few years back. maybe that's what they're talking about.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:03 AM   #14
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illusion. Porsche said clearly that there is no room for a "cheaper" car in their portfolio.

Boxster and Cayman remain as the cheapest entrance into the Porsche world.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Do want. The 944 was one of the most awesome cars I've owned. It had 0 body roll and felt considerably lighter and more responsive than even my s. The power BLEW nuts, but I doubt porsche would do that again. I never had interest in 80's turbo cars. Too scared of reliability.
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #16
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We've known since September of 2011 that Porsche was working on a four-cylinder boxer engine
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...e-works-report

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2439243
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
quoted for trooooof
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
quoted for trooooof
^^+1
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
but one has Heritage!!!
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:08 AM   #20
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but one has Heritage!!!
Fixt.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
Correction to the heritage comment:

One was $2600 so I didn't feel bad stripping the **** out of it to get it under 2000lbs.
One didn't have power anything or tons of safety crap to begin with.
One was from the 80's and still has similar metrics to a car made 30 years later (minus 40 hp, but the 944S was closer).
One had stock awesome widebody.

I fault the BRZ for being not much improved over a 30 year old car that is priced basically at scrap material rates. New, warranty, inflation, blah blah. I never would have bought a 944 new back in the day either... I just got lucky it didn't hold it's value like any other porsche. It's all about the performance per $.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
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Fixt.
thanks, I knew it was missing something
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
quoted for trooooof
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2381923
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #24
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Will they call it a BRZ STI ?
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #25
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Will they call it a BRZ STI ?
As long as it looks like a Cayman S I'll buy it!
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