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Old 08-09-2019, 01:26 PM   #126
subyski
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The RS is not dead. Man you Subaru butt sniffers know nothing of any other manus.
The RS, Mk1, 2, or 3, has always been made for 2 calendar years and that's that. FP makes the RS at the end of the Focus platform for 2 years and that's it until the next FMC. This keeps the car special for owners because not every vaper out there will have one. To me that's better than making McSame for 20 years. Golf R, same thing. They are switching to their new platform so the car sees a 1 year production break. It will definitely be back.
Many know how the RS works. But every indication is showing it's dead for the U.S. market. Other markets will get it when Ford Europe builds them at the end of the new platform. But since Ford U.S. is not selling any variant of the new Focus lineup in the U.S. and doesn't plan on to, chances are extremely slim to none the U.S. will get the next RS.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:46 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post

2004 STI
MSRP ~$32k

2019 STI
MSRP ~$37k

.
If there's anything positive to look at is the price. Subaru has kept the STI price in check over 15 years. Based on inflation only, the current STI is cheaper.

I doubt the 2020 STI will increase much but look at the 2020 Type R, it will cost just as much as an STI now.
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:04 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
If there's anything positive to look at is the price. Subaru has kept the STI price in check over 15 years. Based on inflation only, the current STI is cheaper.

I doubt the 2020 STI will increase much but look at the 2020 Type R, it will cost just as much as an STI now.
I agree, it's avoided price inflation and has held its base price pretty well compared to other vehicles. Granted they've been using the same general powertrain for 15 years so that probably helps cut their costs
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #129
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Yeah yeah yeah. That's because DMV doesn't wanna add "hatchback" to their abbreviations. "SDN" and "WGN" work fine.
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:57 PM   #130
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Personally, I'm just happy that the system in my car is defeatable with the click of one button... I'm not the person to get into a discussion about the merits of the system with, because I don't read about them, care how they function, and especially don't take time to read about multiple systems to compare them. However, anecdotally, I have a good friend who has an outback with eyesight and he complains about its functionality in rain... something that we see a lot of in Seattle... Radar doesn't care about rain, but a camera does. So while tests run on a bluebird day might yield one result, cameras have limitations that radar units do not.
It takes VERY heavy rain to make EyeSight stop working. I went through several storms recently somewhere in Missouri and Oklahoma. Dang near zero visibility finally got EyeSight to shut off. Also it takes complete darkness with crappy headlights to make it shut off as well. I had this experience in the middle of Yukon Territory Canada in 2017. Fortunately since then I've swapped to LED bulbs. Zero problems this last time I drove through Canada. If I have problems when I go through in 2 weeks I'll be sure to update here.

I do agree that radar doesn't care about rain, but EyeSight isn't just looking for any excuse to shut off. It definitely fights to stay on. Also maybe your friend had his front windshield replaced and EyeSight wasn't calibrated correctly? There are other factors to consider.

Also I've been to Seattle quite a few times over the past 10 years and have never experienced rain. People say I'm just very fortunate. Same with Portland.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:37 PM   #131
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The RS is not dead. Man you Subaru butt sniffers know nothing of any other manus.
The RS, Mk1, 2, or 3, has always been made for 2 calendar years and that's that. FP makes the RS at the end of the Focus platform for 2 years and that's it until the next FMC. This keeps the car special for owners because not every vaper out there will have one. To me that's better than making McSame for 20 years. Golf R, same thing. They are switching to their new platform so the car sees a 1 year production break. It will definitely be back.
Just because it was available when you decided to get something? I understand fully your frustration with Subaru not bringing what you want and you not caring to wait anymore; but, they offer something.....continuously..... for those that want something now. If I wanted an RS now, what do I have? Used? Nope.......ain't doing that.

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Originally Posted by KC View Post
It's funny that people keep on repeating that line, but I don't think they get enough credit when they do.

Like... https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2887785

Crap load of people dismissed it... I honestly won't be so quick to dismiss their news, but you do have to wait to see if it pans out (like most news out there).

--kC
Well, THAT example just has them quoting a newspaper in Japan. Yeah, they get "some" stuff right; but, the amount of trash they spew out makes it to where I roll my eyes each time they are quoted. They are wrong(and horribly so in many cases) much more than they are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Personally, I'm just happy that the system in my car is defeatable with the click of one button... I'm not the person to get into a discussion about the merits of the system with, because I don't read about them, care how they function, and especially don't take time to read about multiple systems to compare them. However, anecdotally, I have a good friend who has an outback with eyesight and he complains about its functionality in rain... something that we see a lot of in Seattle... Radar doesn't care about rain, but a camera does. So while tests run on a bluebird day might yield one result, cameras have limitations that radar units do not.

Yeah. I can't wait to see what SBR is working on to improve EyeSight. That Levorg mule and the "sensors" we can see are very interesting.
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #132
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The 17" BBS wheels on the 2004 STI were 15.7 lbs each. The 19" wheels on the 2018+ STI are 28.4 lbs. That's 12.7 lbs more per wheel.. a total of 50.8 lbs more rotational mass. That's certainly significant enough to impact acceleration, braking, and steering. Then factor in the extra ~200 lbs of curb weight.

The 18" BBS wheels on the 2015 STI are in the middle at 22.1 lbs. Its 0-60 was 4.6 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.2 sec (same as the 2004 STI). The brake rotors have also gotten larger (and likely heavier).

I can't find the source, but recall a MotorTrend employee stating that the 18+ models with the fully electronic center differential prevented them from being able to launch the car hard compared to the earlier models. He claimed that it would bog no matter how hard they tried to launch it.

Below are Car and Driver's performance numbers:

2004 STI
MSRP ~$32k
300 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 14.5 psi)
300 LB-FT @ 4000 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2 sec
Skidpad: 0.90 G
Braking: 60-0 111 ft (70-0 166 ft)
Curb weight: 3260 lbs
LB/HP: 10.87

2019 STI
MSRP ~$37k
310 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 16.2 psi)
290 LB-FT @ 4000-5200 rpm
0-60 mph: 5.4-5.7 sec
5-60 mpg: 6.9 sec
1/4 mile: 13.9 sec
Skidpad: 0.93 G
Braking: 60-0 109 ft (70-0 158 ft)
Curb weight: 3446 lbs
LB/HP: 11.12

The numbers have gotten worse in almost every aspect since 2004.. especially if you factor in the advancements in tire design/compound over the last 15 years.. The safety, interior, ride quality, and handling have certainly improved, but it actually accelerates slower due to the added curb weight, unsprung rotational mass, etc.

And yes.. I still bought my '19 STI despite this A performance spec sheet doesn't tell the whole story. I love my '19 STI and the raw, mechanical driving feel that it offers. That, combined with its practicality, is largely why I bought it. There aren't many cars left that offer this experience, especially as a package with AWD, 4 doors, and a manual transmission. The only other car left in that segment is the Golf R.. and most prefer that with the DSG. The manual transmission is a dying breed because they're slower, people are lazy and electric cars are the way of the future.

We won't see any real performance changes for the 2020 model. We'll have to wait and see what the 2021 STI brings. Hopefully it's at least as fast as the S209, but with a smaller price tag.
This hits all the feels. I had a GTI, GOLF R, and STI. GTI in its current form is just as fast as the STI. I hated the front wheel drive feel. Golf R, hated how it felt as it felt soul-less. STI, Love the raw feeling of everything, the steering, etc. I left the R go to back to the STI. I bought the R, trying to get the better interior and gas mileage for my commute. Somtimes power isn't everything.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:03 PM   #133
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There's always the Veloster N
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:11 PM   #134
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I felt it was the best of all worlds it had the fun character of an sti or rs but also drove extremely refined with a nice shifter like the gti BUT THE INTERIOR SUCKS SO MUCH
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:14 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
It takes VERY heavy rain to make EyeSight stop working. I went through several storms recently somewhere in Missouri and Oklahoma. Dang near zero visibility finally got EyeSight to shut off. Also it takes complete darkness with crappy headlights to make it shut off as well. I had this experience in the middle of Yukon Territory Canada in 2017. Fortunately since then I've swapped to LED bulbs. Zero problems this last time I drove through Canada. If I have problems when I go through in 2 weeks I'll be sure to update here.

I do agree that radar doesn't care about rain, but EyeSight isn't just looking for any excuse to shut off. It definitely fights to stay on. Also maybe your friend had his front windshield replaced and EyeSight wasn't calibrated correctly? There are other factors to consider.

Also I've been to Seattle quite a few times over the past 10 years and have never experienced rain. People say I'm just very fortunate. Same with Portland.
Gotta agree, we've only run into a handful of times where eyesight has shutoff during a rain storm and even then it was only briefly each time.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:52 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
It takes VERY heavy rain to make EyeSight stop working. I went through several storms recently somewhere in Missouri and Oklahoma. Dang near zero visibility finally got EyeSight to shut off. Also it takes complete darkness with crappy headlights to make it shut off as well. I had this experience in the middle of Yukon Territory Canada in 2017. Fortunately since then I've swapped to LED bulbs. Zero problems this last time I drove through Canada. If I have problems when I go through in 2 weeks I'll be sure to update here.

I do agree that radar doesn't care about rain, but EyeSight isn't just looking for any excuse to shut off. It definitely fights to stay on. Also maybe your friend had his front windshield replaced and EyeSight wasn't calibrated correctly? There are other factors to consider.

Also I've been to Seattle quite a few times over the past 10 years and have never experienced rain. People say I'm just very fortunate. Same with Portland.
His complaint was mostly with ACC's functionality. In heavier rain, he had issues with the car constantly slowing down then speeding up as the wipers cleared the windshield.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:26 PM   #137
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His complaint was mostly with ACC's functionality. In heavier rain, he had issues with the car constantly slowing down then speeding up as the wipers cleared the windshield.
I've been in very heavy downpours and never experienced that (although on reflection I don't think I've ever used ACC in inclement conditions). But if it were that horrific a situation, his EyeSight was acting in his best interests. His Set speed was too high for conditions regardless whether his opinion didn't match the reality he was in, because EyeSignt's computer knows the facts.

EyeSight's calculations include the speed set and the distance it determines that the vehicle can be stopped at the speed it's going AND distance it can see... not what the driver arbitrarily wants or thinks they can do. Evidence says drivers are often wrong in that.

And most of all, I think only an absolute fool would be using ACC in the conditions you refer to.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:37 PM   #138
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His complaint was mostly with ACC's functionality. In heavier rain, he had issues with the car constantly slowing down then speeding up as the wipers cleared the windshield.
I had ACC set in those downpour conditions and I never had that happen. Very interesting, and I agree, disconcerting. A lot of times the storms seemed to come out of nowhere. At that point I'd prefer to do the driving myself. Especially in inclement weather. I don't think even without EyeSight I've ever considered using cruise control on the highway during a heavy downpour.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:56 PM   #139
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The RS is not dead. Man you Subaru butt sniffers know nothing of any other manus.
The RS, Mk1, 2, or 3, has always been made for 2 calendar years and that's that. FP makes the RS at the end of the Focus platform for 2 years and that's it until the next FMC. This keeps the car special for owners because not every vaper out there will have one. To me that's better than making McSame for 20 years. Golf R, same thing. They are switching to their new platform so the car sees a 1 year production break. It will definitely be back.
Subaru butt sniffers ? Dafuq you talking about. RS is dead and will never be sold here again. Heck, the entire Focus line up is dead. Entire Ford sedan line up is dead for that matter. RS was a disaster for Ford, sales wise and a reliability nightmare. It was made obsolete by the Civic Type R. Sadly, in 2-3 years nobody will even remember it was ever sold here. The STI on the other hand, will outsell everything in this class as it does today.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:04 PM   #140
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Do you have numbers on STI sales? I’d love to see them.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:09 PM   #141
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Do you have numbers on STI sales? I’d love to see them.
Google VW GTI/R sales vs STI/WRX...AND they have to push insane discounts unlike Subaru. EVO is dead, RS is dead, CTR needs tires every 10K miles and Honda raised the price....STI keeps on ticking.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:17 PM   #142
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Who wat? Show me STI sales figures. Really would like to see them.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:22 PM   #143
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Who wat? Show me STI sales figures. Really would like to see them.
Who wat ? Unfortunately Subaru does't break them down but thankfully the only competitor left does...So wait for it:

https://media.vw.com/releases/1175

Yes, you read that right. Less than 1,500 Golf R models sold at the end of June this year.

Subaru

http://media.subaru.com/pressrelease...ver-june-sales
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:24 PM   #144
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Are you having a seizure?
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:25 PM   #145
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Are you having a seizure?
Are you drunk ?
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:32 PM   #146
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Perhaps. You aren’t making any sense at all and keep babbling on about VW. I asked if you could provide STI numbers. You could not then offered VW numbers instead. I thought you perhaps had a seizure.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:36 PM   #147
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Perhaps. You aren’t making any sense at all and keep babbling on about VW. I asked if you could provide STI numbers. You could not then offered VW numbers instead. I thought you perhaps had a seizure.
Take it easy on the booze. My point was that the Golf R was the only competitor left and it's sales are abysmal at best so Subaru must be doing something right in comparison.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:46 PM   #148
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How do you know the STI outsells anything at all? For all we know Subaru sells 5 a month.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:14 PM   #149
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The STi is a nice car. The Golf R is a nice car. People who derive some measure of their self worth from stuff like this are odd. Unless you're an investor, I can't think of one rational reason you could possibly give a **** about the sales of one model versus another.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:05 AM   #150
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The STi is a nice car. The Golf R is a nice car. People who derive some measure of their self worth from stuff like this are odd. Unless you're an investor, I can't think of one rational reason you could possibly give a **** about the sales of one model versus another.
Edit to say I'm still not sure why we're talking about VW.

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