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Old 09-07-2019, 10:16 AM   #76
SeeeeeYa
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
That is a completely wrong statement. A clutch decoupler is simple and easy. So what does that get you? Great, you have disengaged the engine so you can do the brakes. Now what do you do with what gear you are in? The system will not work with the MT because there is no automation on gear selection. You have to be able to down shift based on how much braking you are doing to be able to reengage in the right gear. Reengaging in the wrong gear will just stall and cause more problems.

Peace,

Greg
Beg to differ.

In the moment before impact no one is worrying about downshifting... or anything else. EyeSight emergency braking is for that moment... just braking. Not having an engine involved is better than whatever residual throttle the driver is using.

IF... IF, the driver decides to accelerate or steer there is no impediment. There is no difference.

AFTER the "event" the driver, should they have the presence of mind, can play with their clutch and shifter and do as always.

EyeSight is for emergencies. The ES warnings are just that, and to be acted on or noted as such. I hope I never have ES act on my behalf... third car, four years, no emergency braking. Very few warnings, and nothing to do with what I never anticipated.

I wouldn't be without it. Life is more important to me than whatever I get from a manual transmission. That's why I have let go any number of things in life. I grew up.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:49 AM   #77
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..............anyway

Anyone else see early reports the thing is going to have a "whopping" 315HP ?
Seriously WTF is wrong with Subaru ?
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Old 09-07-2019, 11:06 AM   #78
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..............anyway

Anyone else see early reports the thing is going to have a "whopping" 315HP ?
Seriously WTF is wrong with Subaru ?
Zero competition. They pulled out the mechanical center diff and made the 2018 half a second slower than the previous version. People feel like they have to obsess over the engines to keep them healthy.

With all that, what other sporty 4 door is available with a real AWD system? I wouldn’t think twice about any Subaru if I lived in California, but the pickings are slim if you need to drive in real snow for a third of the year.
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Old 09-07-2019, 11:48 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
golf r.
I thought Golf R was typically $40k? I've never configured one on their website. I just wonder why not everyone is rolling around in a Golf R, not in want of an STI hatch?
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:04 PM   #80
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I thought Golf R was typically $40k? I've never configured one on their website. I just wonder why not everyone is rolling around in a Golf R, not in want of an STI hatch?
They’re around $38k for a manual and $1500 more for a dsg.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:31 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
They’re around $38k for a manual and $1500 more for a dsg.
Ah okay. Good to know. Well now I'm more curious to know why there aren't more R owners and people being satisfied with no STI hatch if the R exists.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:05 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post

....AFTER the "event" the driver, should they have the presence of mind, can play with their clutch and shifter and do as always....

Key statement right there. They is a BIG difference in "should" and what actually happens. Not automated. And that's why I think Subaru doesn't do it.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:16 PM   #83
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Ah okay. Good to know. Well now I'm more curious to know why there aren't more R owners and people being satisfied with no STI hatch if the R exists.
a few reasons. one is that most people dont know the golf r exists or think its fwd. its a vw so people will assume its going to be a nightmare to own. its more expensive than a sti and the target sti audience wants something louder and more wannabe race car. they typically just build a pile and ship them over halfway into the model year, you cant just walk into a dealer and order one and have it show up after a few weeks like a subaru.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:55 PM   #84
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a few reasons. one is that most people dont know the golf r exists or think its fwd. its a vw so people will assume its going to be a nightmare to own. its more expensive than a sti and the target sti audience wants something louder and more wannabe race car. they typically just build a pile and ship them over halfway into the model year, you cant just walk into a dealer and order one and have it show up after a few weeks like a subaru.
All good points. I wanted to test drive one before purchaing my STI, but there were very few within 50 miles of me. Of those, none of the dealers would budge from MSRP so they were all over $40k. The dealers also don't like letting you test drive them.

My local Subaru dealer had the exact STI that I wanted, $4k below MSRP, and had no issue letting me test drive it. The 1.9% financing helped as well.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:05 PM   #85
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..............anyway

Anyone else see early reports the thing is going to have a "whopping" 315HP ?
Seriously WTF is wrong with Subaru ?
IF that's true.. at least the STI is finally getting rid of the EJ and replacing it with a modern engine with modern technology. The EJ257 is showing its age and overdue for a replacement. The FA20 has already been in the WRX for 5 years and in the BRZ for even longer.

Even if the HP stays relatively the same, the FA will be more efficient, have a better powerband (more area under the curve), respond better to modifications & E85, and get better fuel economy.

We can't expect Subaru to give the FA STI more than the S209's 341 HP right out of the gate. Maybe with a mid-cycle refresh.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #86
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315hp wouldn’t bother me a bit so long as it is tuned well, more efficient, and durable/reliable with basic mods.
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:52 PM   #87
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I mean the latest 2020 STI is supposed to be 310hp ...for next gen to be just 5hp increase (which would make it a whopping 10hp increase in the last like 600 years) would be a joke.
I don't care how improved the handling bla bla is, stop dicking around and just give us a real pocket rocket again!
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:51 PM   #88
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315hp wouldn’t bother me a bit so long as it is tuned well, more efficient, and durable/reliable with basic mods.
maybe if mpg was rated 23 city/32 highway
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:00 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by subUrbanAuthority View Post
315hp wouldn’t bother me a bit so long as it is tuned well, more efficient, and durable/reliable with basic mods.
Tuned well, just like the FA20 WRX??
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:18 PM   #90
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maybe if mpg was rated 23 city/32 highway
Legacy XT official numbers with the 260 hp 277 lb ft FA24 are 24/32/27 MPG. That's with a CVT. No center differential. Auto start/stop. Skinnier economy tires. Regular gas minimum. No hood scoop or cooling performance ducting and spoilers. Curb weight around 3600 lbs.

If the STI came with the FA24 rated at ~320/335 and all the normal STI goodies, I think we can expect a 19/25 or thereabouts fuel economy rating. Gearing could be revised because of the engine thus improving mileage somewhat. But I don't expect it to be near those Legacy numbers.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:47 PM   #91
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Tuned well, just like the FA20 WRX??
You can't make a blanket statement like that and be serious. It comes across as general acrimony. Taint so.

The '15 WRX and the '14/'15 FXT tunes were the fastest/best for the engine. Too bad Subaru learned about LSPI from them. But the learning done, plus dealing with contributing factors from oil and gasolines, subsequent tunes were excellent and devoid of issues. I had them all. I'm familiar with the FA20DIT and it's a great engine.

And just because the FA24 is new doesn't mean Subaru started over, forgetting lessons learned. The FA24 benefits from the years of FA20 experience, plus the chance to bring the entire engine forward into the present.

Having all those FA20s having CVTs also revealed substantial programming improvements in the TCM along with some design improvements. By 2017 both the FA and its parter CVT came together in seamless synergy. I have no doubt the FA24/CVT combo are better still. If my '19 Imp is any indication, I'm certain of it.

You're not one of "those" are you...
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:51 PM   #92
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You can't make a blanket statement like that and be serious. It comes across as general acrimony. Taint so.

The '15 WRX and the '14/'15 FXT tunes were the fastest/best for the engine. Too bad Subaru learned about LSPI from them. But the learning done, plus dealing with contributing factors from oil and gasolines, subsequent tunes were excellent and devoid of issues. I had them all. I'm familiar with the FA20DIT and it's a great engine.

And just because the FA24 is new doesn't mean Subaru started over, forgetting lessons learned. The FA24 benefits from the years of FA20 experience, plus the chance to bring the entire engine forward into the present.

You're not one of "those" are you...
There seems to be a lot of hate for the FA and I'm not sure why. It often comes from those who have 0 experience with it. Maybe people just don't like change or they are blinded by EJ loyalty.

I had a '16 WRX and now have a '19 STI. The STI is the better car without a doubt, but the FA is the better engine platform. Subaru (and the aftermarket) has learned a lot over the last 5 years with the FA20 & now the FA24.. I'm sure they'll apply that knowledge and make the STI's FA engine even better.

Would people rather have the same EJ257 for another 5 years?

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-11-2019 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:22 PM   #93
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Would people rather have the same EJ257 for another 5 years?
Um, let's see...

NO
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:30 PM   #94
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My issue with my '14 FXT's FA20 has nothing to do with the engine, but what it has been subjected to by the awful factory tune for YEARS. It wasn't until late 2015 or early 2016 that Subaru finally figured out the correct tune. LOTs of miles were put on the engine with that horrid tune and while my FA20 passed the leak-down test, it still worries me.
As we speak, upon WOT, the engine makes this awful lifter-type loud clacking sound.
I'm out of warranty and don't dare pay to ask what exactly the noise is.

And as stated above, the factory April 2013 tune was significantly hotter than the "fixed" tune. I noticed a dramatic drop in pull, post-flash. I would've COBB Stg1'd it long ago, but the whole leak-down thing was going on, and at this point I just need to get rid of it.

The engine and CVT operate much rougher than they did new. It honestly feels like a giant liability ticking time-bomb. Again, no fault of the FA20 - I love the torque curve of that engine mated to the CVT. Just wish I wasn't one of the very first beta testers, for years.

Maybe I'll just re-up to the new Forester XT. Oh. Wait.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:15 PM   #95
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I have a '14 FXT and know first-hand how fast and awesome it was in the beginning. I also know that there were days when the push-button start circuit would time-out and then barely start on the second attempt. I know that there were days when it would start up immediately, but run terribly for tens of seconds. I know that, even after a few re-flashes, I still experienced actual, audible knock and complete loss of power.


After all of the reflashes, there I stood, with a better-starting and better-running engine that was unquestionably slower.

I can honestly say that my Cobb Stage 1 tune doesn't feel as fast as when I first took delivery of my FXT.

If there is hate from us guinea pigs, it is NOT unjustified in some cases!

//


You be the fools who buy a brand-new FA24DIT STI....

I would love to own a 2025!

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Old 09-12-2019, 12:43 AM   #96
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brace for impact...


seeeeeyaa
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:59 AM   #97
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brace for impact...


seeeeeyaa
my favorite is how he defines "good handling"

doesnt pull many lateral g's, has a lot of body roll, has poor steering feedback and feel. but it handles great!
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:19 AM   #98
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Boys will be boys.

After my '14 FXT none of my later WRXs or FXT were as quick or fast. Passing on a two lane almost always ended with me braking hard to pull the speed back from 90+. But it was eerie to me, there was no feedback. The engine and that initial CVT was like a turbine that just kept going faster without any change in sound for feel to mark the passage. In a way, too fast and ultimately not as "controllable," because it felt out of my hands.

And of course, I had zero issues. Never anything but good 93, as called for, but nary a hiccup. We'd had a couple of NA Foresters but it was MY first... and I could not get over how big it was. I traded it for a WRX, which was in a number of ways going from the frying pan to the fire. Handled great, but rode like it had no springs or shocks, the CVT was wonky, and it wasn't as quick as the '14 FXT. It also had zero problems. I traded it because of ES... and got a much better car to boot.

So you see, in my experience with "first year" Subarus, your bad luck is your bad luck. Mine was fine... well, except I'm glad I got rid of them rather quickly. But I don't see Subaru in the same boat as those were. The FA24 isn't new, the SGP isn't new, the CVT isn't new (IF it gets one)... unlike the others, nothing is really new but the packaging. And they know what's at stake.

Subaru knows how to make good fast cars... but they have no control over the drivers. The ones who don't know how their machines work nor how to take care of them. They have no control over the cesspool that is our gasolines. They have no control over the dummies who experiment with them. The only thing they can do is dumb them down as close to the lowest common denominator as they can and still have a competitive offering.

I've spent enough time on here to know which category most here are in. I have a large shaker of salt. Babble on.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:46 AM   #99
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Subaru knows how to make good fast cars... but they have no control over the drivers. The ones who don't know how their machines work nor how to take care of them. They have no control over the cesspool that is our gasolines. They have no control over the dummies who experiment with them. The only thing they can do is dumb them down as close to the lowest common denominator as they can and still have a competitive offering.
I've never seen a forum that blames the drivers for the brand's problems. When a VW is a lemon, it's a lemon. When a Subaru grenades it's because the driver can't drive.

Maybe Subaru drivers are the most stupid on Earth, but I doubt it.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #100
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I've never seen a forum that blames the drivers for the brand's problems. When a VW is a lemon, it's a lemon. When a Subaru grenades it's because the driver can't drive.

Maybe Subaru drivers are the most stupid on Earth, but I doubt it.
Nope, Subaru holds no edge in stupid drivers. They're everywhere.

And where do they congregate? Around "performance" machines... like WRXs and STis. VWs and Chevys. You name it. You know them, too.

Blame? What's that? It's not in my vocabulary.

Never mind, I found it:

Urban Dictionary to the rescue.

Quote:
blame
to put all of the consequences unto another person. Usually to get yourself out of trouble.
Teacher "Who poo'd all over the floor?"
Child, "I blame Jimmy!"
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