Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2011, 04:19 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
24 TypeS ZO6
White

Default BMW Confirms Diesel-M, High-Performance Engine to Find Numerous Other Applications


http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011...-applications/

Quote:
BMW will introduce a new high-performance diesel-powered 5-Series model next spring that will expand the German maker’s vaunted M division, TheDetroitBureau.com has confirmed, with the triple-turbo V-8 oil-burner set to also be used in a variety of other BMW products, likely including its X-series sport-activity vehicles.

Rumors of the diesel M have been circulating for several weeks, but TheDetroitBureau.com has confirmed details with a variety of BMW sources who say the maker wants to prove out the potential of the high-mileage technology – taking advantage of a variety of new technologies, including the unusual triple-turbocharging system meant to eliminate even the most minor turbo lag.

The new model is likely to get the unusual designation of either BMW 550dM or 550dXM, the latter referring to its all-wheel-drive system. With rare exception, most models produced by the Bavarian maker’s performance sub-brand flash the vaunted “M” first and foremost. But the alternative nomenclature would reflect the unusual powertrain under the hood of the 5-Series BMW.

The 3.0-liter straight-six diesel will use a small turbo to instantly build boost for launch, two larger twin-scroll turbochargers then spooling up for higher-speed performance. The basic engine is the same as the current BMW 3.0-liter diesel but with significant modifications, including a new cylinder head. It will make use of a variety of advanced technologies, including direct injection and BMW’s Valvetronic system, designed to optimize the function of intake and exhaust engine valves.

Sources tell TheDetroitBureau.com that the 550dM will deliver slightly less horsepower than the new gas-powered BMW M5, which makes 560 ponies. Final numbers will likely be in the 500 to 550 range. Torque, meanwhile, will well exceed the 500 lb-ft of the new M5, and could push north of 650 lb-ft.

To handle those tire-spinning forces, “You have to go to all-wheel-drive,” explained one senior BMW official, “otherwise you’ll be spinning your tires all day.”

(For a first look at the next-gen BMW M5, Click Here.)

While several makers have demonstrated the potential for diesel power on the track, the move to put it into a high-performance street car is a significant breakthrough. Mercedes-Benz briefly offered a diesel model wearing its AMG badge but that lasted only a year on the market. BMW has long considered the option but it took several significant developments for the company’s comfort level to reach the necessary threshold.

“Diesel technology has come a long way in the last five years,” said one BMW executive, adding that the maker also had to be certain buyers would be able to get the necessary quality of diesel fuel in any market – notably including the U.S. – where the 550dM will be sold.

For the record, M brand global marketing manager Brian Watts confirmed that the maker is looking at a diesel M car, though he said, “We’re not finished with that program yet.” But other insiders said only the final details, such as performance specifications – and the final brand nomenclature – have yet to be firmed up, with the new diesel muscle car due for introduction next spring, very likely with an unveiling at a major auto show like the Geneva Motor Show.

The engine is intended to find applications beyond the 5-series M edition, sources agree. It is designed to fit in a variety of additional BMW products and would most likely show up next in one or more of the maker’s X-Series Sport-Activity Vehicles, such as the X5 or X6. But a version of the 550d engine might also be melded with the maker’s flagship 7-Series sedan “a year or more later,” said a source.

BMW officials say they hope to steal a march on competitors – but, said one, “I expect to see others follow,” a reference to both Mercedes and Audi. The executive said he was particularly surprised that the latter German brand had not moved into the diesel performance segment more quickly, as it would play off Audi’s link to diesel power. The maker has dominated the Le Mans endurance series for much of the past decade with its various diesel-powered race cars.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-17-2011, 04:43 PM   #2
E. Nick
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8489
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Atherton, CA
Vehicle:
2005 Carrera GT
Guards

Default

I want it in an X5
E. Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 04:46 PM   #3
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Vehicle:
'02 WRX; '08 OBXT;
'08 G37 (S/C'd); '09 XF

Default

sweet.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:20 PM   #4
KoalaSlim
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94002
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwood
Default

AWD diesel powered 5 series M? What the hell is happening to the world?

Ultimate DD MONSTER?
KoalaSlim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:35 PM   #5
happasaiyan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37731
Join Date: Jun 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoalaSlim View Post
AWD diesel powered 5 series M? What the hell is happening to the world?

Ultimate DD MONSTER?
yes, very ultimate. do want.
happasaiyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:52 PM   #6
KoalaSlim
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94002
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwood
Default

I'd get one for the wife and have grins with it on the sly... And enjoy it on the road trips. Wagon form and a stick shift and I'll buy one for myself. Not that THATS going to happen...
KoalaSlim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 05:20 PM   #7
Stanley
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7374
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Gold Country
Vehicle:
2023 MAGA Hat Model3
grey, or is it gray?

Default

This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 05:30 PM   #8
Ysidro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 197418
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New England
Vehicle:
07 WRX Ltd
The Mighty Evo;Fun CRZ

Default

Now thats one diesel looking M!
Ysidro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 06:53 PM   #9
Integra96
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64196
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2010 Family Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
Yes. The 335d is nice and all, but $10,000 higher starting price than a 328i? Please.
Integra96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 01:02 AM   #10
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

M is really departing from it's previous stance about only having high-revving atmospheric gasoline engines, for their pure rev response all the way to redline.

First it was turbos... Now turbo-diesel is rumored. I'll bet the redline on that is really impressive.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 01:16 AM   #11
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
Agreed.
Although, if I had extra cash to burn, I'd get myself a 335d in a heartbeat .
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 01:14 PM   #12
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
This.


The 325e that should have been.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 03:19 PM   #13
sotti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33474
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
04 M3
Imola Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
This.


The 325e that should have been.
I loved my 325e
sotti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 03:46 PM   #14
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
M is really departing from it's previous stance about only having high-revving atmospheric gasoline engines, for their pure rev response all the way to redline.

First it was turbos... Now turbo-diesel is rumored. I'll bet the redline on that is really impressive.
Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 03:58 PM   #15
Balantz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101457
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
Czar of Sweet Dance
Moves

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7

Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
Now you've done it. *HTBS wall o' text*
Balantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 04:45 PM   #16
slaytalera
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163816
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy Outback
Black

Default

triple turbos, how do they work?

slaytalera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 05:22 PM   #17
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
24 TypeS ZO6
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
I want it in an X5
whats happening in ENickCarBuying
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 05:24 PM   #18
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
24 TypeS ZO6
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaytalera View Post
triple turbos, how do they work?

no I think he did it,giggle sorry Hip you have to admit it is funny..
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 11:56 PM   #19
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
Porsche 3.8 liter X51. 408 naturally aspirated H6 power.

Lamborghini/Audi 5.2 liter V10.

I am not an automotive power-train engineer, but others are.


BMW ///M division used to make statements about their engineering ideals, and how naturally aspirated high revving engines were their focus, and for real technical reasons. That isn't me talking, that was them, some time ago, now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoweek
BMW's M division has always had a strict philosiphy for its M engines. Flexible, fast-revving and with racecar-like rev-limits, BMW's M engines really were racecar engines for the road.
Evidently they hold to that about as well as Subaru holds to All-AWD, All-the-time.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 10:16 AM   #20
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaytalera View Post
triple turbos, how do they work?
Not sure if serious but... I speculated about this in another thread. Based on what I have seen from regular sequential turbos (Supra, Rx-7, Legacy) and twin charged engines (VW), it could work like this:



Basically the electrically driven compressor (electric turbo, whatever you want to call it) will supply boost at the lower rpm range and a butterfly valve will separate its air from the two actual turbos. The exhaust will spool up the two turbos and a relief valve (kinda like a blowoff valve) will be open while they come up to speed. Then when it's time for the twin turbos to come online, the butterfly valve will open, the relief valve will close, and the electric compressor may be de-clutched.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 10:24 AM   #21
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Porsche 3.8 liter X51. 408 naturally aspirated H6 power.

Lamborghini/Audi 5.2 liter V10.

I am not an automotive power-train engineer, but others are.
Yeah we all know how BMW's V10 worked out in the emissions department... terrible fuel economy when put in those big boats. Their current n/a V8 didn't work out well either or they wouldn't have just scrapped it like that. The other problem with the high revving engines is that there is basically no application for them outside of these low production cars, so cost sharing becomes difficult.

For the record I like high revving n/a engines. But I think they are pointless in M cars because M cars are too heavy now and they've been that way for about 10 years. When I drove the now-outgoing V10 M5 a couple years ago I wasn't impressed because the car was too heavy. Big fat vehicles like that need torque.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 10:31 AM   #22
Spin1200
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250286
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Putnam/Westchester
Vehicle:
09GR phatbottiPowrd
T.S.P.'s test mule

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Yeah we all know how BMW's V10 worked out in the emissions department... terrible fuel economy when put in those big boats. Their current n/a V8 didn't work out well either or they wouldn't have just scrapped it like that. The other problem with the high revving engines is that there is basically no application for them outside of these low production cars, so cost sharing becomes difficult.

For the record I like high revving n/a engines. But I think they are pointless in M cars because M cars are too heavy now and they've been that way for about 10 years. When I drove the now-outgoing V10 M5 a couple years ago I wasn't impressed because the car was too heavy. Big fat vehicles like that need torque.
Yea, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds(not on launch control) and capable of 200+MPH for being 4000+lbs, and being engineered in 2004 isnt impressive at all
Spin1200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 01:12 PM   #23
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Exclamation Regarding an '08 M5 Test...

^
There's more to it than numbers racing, Spin1200.

Quote:
The manual may therefore seem like a more attractive choice, but we discovered that after only 12 minutes of hard driving, it simply couldn't handle the immense amount of power being fed through it. (It's carried over from the 394-hp V8 in the previous M5.) It began to overheat, causing the car's computer to lower the engine's redline to 6,000 rpm. The SMG is still not as smooth as we'd like, but we'd probably recommend it over the manual transmission.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2008/

Last edited by Skylab; 08-20-2011 at 01:22 PM.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #24
Steve.804
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68647
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond, VA
Vehicle:
07 STI 35R
05 BMW M3 ZCP

Default

Wow this thing with some Dinan software would be a monster. 1000ft/lbs of torque all of a sudden does not seem that far away

I want an X5Md!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Not sure if serious but... I speculated about this in another thread. Based on what I have seen from regular sequential turbos (Supra, Rx-7, Legacy) and twin charged engines (VW), it could work like this:



Basically the electrically driven compressor (electric turbo, whatever you want to call it) will supply boost at the lower rpm range and a butterfly valve will separate its air from the two actual turbos. The exhaust will spool up the two turbos and a relief valve (kinda like a blowoff valve) will be open while they come up to speed. Then when it's time for the twin turbos to come online, the butterfly valve will open, the relief valve will close, and the electric compressor may be de-clutched.
I like everything but the electic turbo. That thing would be crazy expensive if it failed out of warranty.

It would have to be quite the exhaust manifold, but what if you could have a butterfly valve in the EM that was driven off an actuator similar to a boost activated exhaust cut-out. That way once boost reached a certain pressure it can shut down the smaller turbo and focus exhaust pulses at the two larger ones.
Steve.804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #25
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

I commented before, but if you are going to block off the turbo-compressors with a butterfly valve, and the turbos also have waste gates to prevent over-boost, why bother with the complexity of the intake tract, for a narrow usage profile?

Why not use ALL of a turbine's potential, by gear-reducing it's high RPMS down to crank-shaft RPMs, and compound the turbine output directly with the crankshaft, and into the drivetrain.

Then use an electric (if it is at all viable to have a big enough electric motor to push the volume of air an engine needs), or a CVT-driven centrifugal supercharger.

The turbine can do what the turbine does best, without the low-RPM blockage of the butterfly valve in that system, nor needing a waste gate to bleed off energy, because it doesn't have to conform to the compressor/intake's limitations.

Tune the separate supercharger to be efficient for the intake parameters of the engine, instead of trying to make the intake and exhaust parameters match, when they don't.

I was much more impressed and enthused about BMW's steam thermal reclamation system, to pull wasted thermal energy out of the engine, and the exhaust, and compound a steam-turbine's output with the crankshaft output to the drivetrain.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BMW confirms 'i-Setta' as fourth BMW Group brand [Video] AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 9 08-05-2009 10:38 PM
BMW confirms it is in talks with GM, Daimler and Fiat to sell engines AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 2 04-02-2008 06:20 PM
The Cure's Lovesong. Best remake by numerous other bands? Eric SS Off-Topic 25 12-06-2007 04:08 PM
is there a search engine to find ethnic densities by zip code? Disoriental Off-Topic 16 01-23-2007 05:02 PM
What's your most used search engine to find stuff, and why? KC Off-Topic 20 04-18-2003 04:42 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.