Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday June 26, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2019, 12:36 PM   #376
F1EA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
I'm not sure what people expect him to have done to rejoin any safer than what he did. Grass doesn't exactly have much grip.
What do you mean?

1. He was not on grass when he squeezed Lewis to the wall.
2. He should know grass has no grip, and if he hits grass.... he's the one who needs to make the corrections when rejoining.
3. He was fighting for position, not trying to rejoin safely. He said it himself. He was trying to keep Lewis behind. Turns out he kept him behind by eliminating the space between his car and the wall. Would have been perfectly fine and pretty great had he not been rejoining from an off. Under any other situation, he could have taken that line with no problems.

It was pretty marginal too. A matter of a couple of metres for him being able to get away with just a warning.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by F1EA; 06-12-2019 at 12:41 PM.
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-12-2019, 12:55 PM   #377
ShadowIMg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31519
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glenview, IL
Vehicle:
2017 Babby Duramax
2011 Lotus Evora

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parker View Post
Vettel was the car aheadoff the track. Why is it on him to avoid Lewis if Lewis is behind? If Lewis wasn't behind how did He know he needed to slow to avoid Seb?

without seeing the video a position swap strikes me as much more ideal.

Not like I've been complaining about Stewards heavy handed decisions. As though someone ruined their race so they have to ruin others.
As the guy above states, Seb is the one who made an error and went off. If you don't do something to rule against this, then any time someone has an off, they're going to intentionally do this in order to try to save their position. Since you don't want people intentionally unsafely re-entering to defend positions, you have to enforce some sort of penalty on them. Of course you can always say "I was off the track, so I had no grip!"

I do agree a position swap would have been more appropriate, but given the pace of each car, I don't think it would have made a difference in the 1/2 race.

Seb can be mad but he can't legitimately blame anyone but himself for going off the track and giving up his lead.
ShadowIMg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 01:20 PM   #378
ForceFed4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7370
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: An arsenal of profanity...
Vehicle:
2013 5.0
SGM

Default

He WAS making corrections on rejoining. So he didn't spin, or hit the wall, or Lewis for that matter. Like I said, this is not a modern cookie-cutter Tilke track where the "run-off" is just more track painted a different color which has caused them to make these stupid rules about 'gaining advantage' and whatnot.

Rejoining safely is about not having a car that's spun off enter the track @ 30 KPH in front of cars doing 150+. It is NOT about stipulating that you must cede your position when engaged in a 1 on 1 dogfight and make a mistake that the trailing car fails to capitalize on.

I want to see more of these cars driven on their limits, and a whole hell of a lot less tire management and pit stop window strategy. It's boring as ****. The modern cars suck when driven at their limits; out of balance, twitchy, stupid messes optimized for nothing but aero, which makes passing (or just being near) even dramatically slower cars a hazardous proposition. So the FIA steps in to make it all "safe" with rule Band-Aids which just mean we never get to see real racing, or it ends like Montreal on the rare occasion we do. Indycar with it's spec everything and 7 year old homologated chassis is about 100X more exciting to watch than current F1. Hell, the Netflix show about the 2018 F1 season was more interesting than the actual 2018 F1 season.

TLDR: Kill aero. Should've been done 15 years ago. Racing might come back once the cars can safely get w/in 1-2 lengths of each other again without it ruining how they drive.
ForceFed4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 01:32 PM   #379
ShadowIMg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31519
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glenview, IL
Vehicle:
2017 Babby Duramax
2011 Lotus Evora

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
Rejoining safely is about not having a car that's spun off enter the track @ 30 KPH in front of cars doing 150+. It is NOT about stipulating that you must cede your position when engaged in a 1 on 1 dogfight and make a mistake that the trailing car fails to capitalize on.
What if these two things are the same, as it was in this instance? Seb knew where Hamilton was, and he knew where the racing line is, and he knew the speed difference. If Hamilton hadn't had the good sense to stop and raise it into the stewards - IE: Had this been Verstappen, Bottas, Ricci, etc there's a very good chance this would've resulted in a dramatic accident, which would have also been Seb's fault, not the car behind's.
ShadowIMg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:03 PM   #380
ForceFed4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7370
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: An arsenal of profanity...
Vehicle:
2013 5.0
SGM

Default

Then make the cars swap places on track and let the race continue, see if Vettel can win the position back.

A 5s time penalty, the same penalty that would apply for actually causing the crash that didn't happen, is totally inappropriate. It's handing the race to Hamilton, period. Unless you think there's a likely scenario where the best machine on the grid somehow wouldn't be able to maintain within 5s of the lead car, knowing full well that was the only condition necessary to win.

Once again, it falls on the side of allowing clever management to win and discouraging on track heroics. The opposite of what this sport needs. IMO, of course, but I'm pretty comfortable with my company in that, judging by the response to the whole thing.
ForceFed4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:16 PM   #381
F1EA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
A 5s time penalty, the same penalty that would apply for actually causing the crash that didn't happen, is totally inappropriate. It's handing the race to Hamilton, period.
huh?
5s is the MINIMUM penalty in F1. For a crash he would have gotten something like a stop and go or a 20s.

Handing the race to Hamilton?
Double huh.

Vettel had the opportunity to:
1. Cede the position
2. Open a 5s+ gap.
3. Rejoin safely (ie give Ham the mandatory room) and forcing him to MAKE the pass stick.

But agree. Handing the race to Hamilton indeed it was. (the mistake, not the penalty).

It was good for the show though. Last race in Monaco... what do you think Verstapen was trying for? and what happened? nothing. Yawn.
Yeah, that's the difference. No mistake when in the lead. Which is what champions can do.
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:52 PM   #382
ForceFed4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7370
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: An arsenal of profanity...
Vehicle:
2013 5.0
SGM

Default

"No mistakes while in the lead is what a champion can do"??? These guys are both multi world champions. That's a poster slogan.

No mistakes means they're not being pushed. Hamilton was making mistakes right and left keeping up with and trying to pass Vettel before he knew he had a safe 5s cushion to play with. Mistakes are good. But they need to play out on the track. A mistake from a driver ahead does not entitle the car behind to the position ahead. You seem to think that the position was Hamilton's just because Vettel made an error. That's not how racing works. And if it is, then I agree with the live commentators that we might as well not bother at this point.

I know 5s is the minimum penalty under current F1 rules. If this is how the rules are going to be used, it shouldn't be. It's like you think the FIA doesn't just make up its own rules and then (arbitrarily) decide how they're enforced. It does, and it's gotten completely out of hand.
ForceFed4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:58 PM   #383
ShadowIMg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31519
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glenview, IL
Vehicle:
2017 Babby Duramax
2011 Lotus Evora

Default

Hamilton wasn't entitled to the spot for any reason other than he would have passed him in every possible scenario other than him stopping to avoid a massive accident that Seb would have caused. If Hamilton had been 3 seconds behind him rather than less than 1 second, it wouldn't have been a consideration. The "might as well not bother" makes no sense. You can't be within a 5 second margin of 1st place if you aren't "bothered".
ShadowIMg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 03:02 PM   #384
blue-sun
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15934
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Yorkville, IL
Vehicle:
2017 Jetta GLI
Tornado Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Talked to a co-worker yesterday and he had driven down to Chicago to check out the F1 festival as well. He was incredibly disappointed. As you said there wasn't much to do or see. He also said most of the older F1 cars they brought out for show / demo wound up broken and not running. While he was there watching the only vehicle running was the 2-seat V10 hot-lap car.
yeah, seems to be the consensus. The recovery tow truck driver got the biggest round of applause everytime he came out.

That 2 seater V10 sounded hrggggggggggggggggggnnnnnnnnnnnn in person.

I need to get my videos uploaded do you guys can here it
blue-sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 04:46 PM   #385
F1EA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
"No mistakes while in the lead is what a champion can do"??? These guys are both multi world champions. That's a poster slogan.

No mistakes means they're not being pushed. Hamilton was making mistakes right and left keeping up with and trying to pass Vettel before he knew he had a safe 5s cushion to play with. Mistakes are good. But they need to play out on the track. A mistake from a driver ahead does not entitle the car behind to the position ahead. You seem to think that the position was Hamilton's just because Vettel made an error. That's not how racing works. And if it is, then I agree with the live commentators that we might as well not bother at this point.

I know 5s is the minimum penalty under current F1 rules. If this is how the rules are going to be used, it shouldn't be. It's like you think the FIA doesn't just make up its own rules and then (arbitrarily) decide how they're enforced. It does, and it's gotten completely out of hand.
There's mistakes, and then there's mistakes. If you can't tell the difference then... what can I say.

Hamilton wasn't entitled the position. He wasn't given the position either. Vet got a 5s penalty. This is NOT the position; very different. Again, if you don't know the difference......

Whether the rules should or should not be... that's not the point.

Last edited by F1EA; 06-12-2019 at 06:19 PM.
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 05:01 PM   #386
F1EA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 448622
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2019 STI SportTech
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowIMg View Post
Hamilton wasn't entitled to the spot for any reason other than he would have passed him in every possible scenario other than him stopping to avoid a massive accident that Seb would have caused. If Hamilton had been 3 seconds behind him rather than less than 1 second, it wouldn't have been a consideration. The "might as well not bother" makes no sense. You can't be within a 5 second margin of 1st place if you aren't "bothered".
Had Hamilton been 3secs behind, Vet would have rejoined with no issues ahead. He would have gotten a 'warning' for leaving the track and that's it. Lewis would have forced him into another one later on
F1EA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 02:46 AM   #387
speedyHAM
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48377
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: "They eat fish soaked in lye"
Vehicle:
1996 Gutted, built
XP class Impreza L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
Had Hamilton been 3secs behind, Vet would have rejoined with no issues ahead. He would have gotten a 'warning' for leaving the track and that's it. Lewis would have forced him into another one later on
Now you are just speculating. I give it 50-50 odds at best.

Looking back at the matter and how everything played out, I think it might have been better if Vettel had lost it and wrecked them both in that corner. It's not like it hasn't been done before.

speedyHAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2019, 08:14 PM   #388
MrH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 186279
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Phila, PA
Vehicle:
2016 Forester XT
Ice Silver

Default

The grid:
Looks like another yawner.


Pos Driver Team
1 Hamilton Mercedes
2 Bottas Mercedes
3 Leclerc Ferrari
4 Verstappen Red Bull
5 Norris McLaren
6 Sainz McLaren
7 Vettel Ferrari
8 Ricciardo Renault
9 Gasly Red Bull
10 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo
11 Albon Toro Rosso
12 Raikkonen Alfa Romeo
13 Hulkenberg Renault
14 Perez Racing Point
15 Magnussen Haas
16 Kvyat Toro Rosso
17 Grosjean Haas
18 Stroll Racing Point
19 Russell Williams
20 Kubica Williams

Is McLaren this good or does everyone else just sucks?
Speaking about sucks, Stroll's qualifying really does.
What happen to Haas this year?
Torpedoman starts at the back of the grid.
MrH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 10:18 AM   #389
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
Buy Nate's coffee
west coast roasting

Default

Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 12:14 PM   #390
torquemada
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post


another ****ing snoozefest
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 12:58 PM   #391
Counterfit
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124254
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rhode Island
Vehicle:
2006 06 SGM Slowbaru
"The Scoobinator"

Default

Bring back refueling. Banning it was a ****ing stupid knee-jerk reaction.
Counterfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 08:29 PM   #392
MrH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 186279
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Phila, PA
Vehicle:
2016 Forester XT
Ice Silver

Default

Yep another snorefest:


Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Hamilton Mercedes 53
2 Bottas Mercedes 53
3 Leclerc Ferrari 53
4 Verstappen Red Bull 53
5 Vettel Ferrari 53
6 Sainz McLaren 53
7 Raikkonen Alfa Romeo 52
8 Hulkenberg Renault 52
9 Norris McLaren 52
10 Gasly Red Bull 52
11 Ricciardo Renault 52
12 Perez Racing Point 52
13 Stroll Racing Point 52
14 Kvyat Toro Rosso 52
15 Albon Toro Rosso 52
16 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 52
17 Magnussen Haas 52
18 Kubica Williams 51
19 Russell Williams 51
Grosjean Haas 44 Retired
MrH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 09:28 PM   #393
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
Buy Nate's coffee
west coast roasting

Default

dafuq happened to Bottas, it's as if he got told to stop performing by Mercedes.

Vettel looks donzo.

Glad to see the Mclaren resurgence.

I really hope that Honda and Renault can get it together for a more competitive 2020 season.
Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2019, 05:58 PM   #394
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rich Coast
Vehicle:
Pura vida!
Yellow V standing by

Default

Ugh, that last lap scrap cost me 8pts in fantasy. Haas is turning to trash, Racing Point is trash depending on the circuit, McLaren is turning to best of the rest and Gasly is on suicide watch. But otherwise, yes, another boring race.



I'd watch F2 or F3 but they seem a bit too amateur-y. Certainly F3. F2 has some pretty good talent coming through at all times but also some truly terrible pay drivers. WEC is decent but a huge time commitment, not to mention knowledge as well with there being so many classes, teams and drivers to keep track of. I already watch MotoGP and have started watching WSBK this year as well. I could give the WRC another gander. Formula E is miserable to watch.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2019, 06:31 PM   #395
torquemada
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2019, 09:36 PM   #396
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
Buy Nate's coffee
west coast roasting

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Ugh, that last lap scrap cost me 8pts in fantasy. Haas is turning to trash, Racing Point is trash depending on the circuit, McLaren is turning to best of the rest and Gasly is on suicide watch. But otherwise, yes, another boring race.



I'd watch F2 or F3 but they seem a bit too amateur-y. Certainly F3. F2 has some pretty good talent coming through at all times but also some truly terrible pay drivers. WEC is decent but a huge time commitment, not to mention knowledge as well with there being so many classes, teams and drivers to keep track of. I already watch MotoGP and have started watching WSBK this year as well. I could give the WRC another gander. Formula E is miserable to watch.
Exactly..

This is how I feel.



heck - even the F1 driver character in Murder Mystery made me think hah - if only F1 was this entertaining. I can't even with this crap.

Fudge, I'm starting to get all boogity booogity boogity and watching them Nascar boys race.
Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM   #397
Notbrick
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 433072
Join Date: Oct 2015
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: MO
Vehicle:
2004 STI, Stock, 55K
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
Exactly..
Fudge, I'm starting to get all boogity booogity boogity and watching them Nascar boys race.
NASCAR was at Sonoma this weekend, pretty entertaining race.
Notbrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.