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Old 07-30-2020, 05:02 PM   #2651
godfather2112
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
in the near future (our lifetimes) the Porsche 911 will be the Miata of sports cars; the one you get because it isn't the fastest, but it's the most fun.

EVs are beginning to make their case as the best choice for performance. Reliable performance. Consistent performance. even (gag) green performance.

also, the EV powered truck will be awesome. all the reasons.
Please quantify ďnear future.Ē
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:28 PM   #2652
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My Model 3 sat in the garage for about 3 months during the shelter in place and I only lost 30-20 miles of range and the days I lost the most it was because I got over the air updates. As fast as charging on a standard outlet you will get 3-4 miles per hour, on a NEMA 50amp/level 2 plug you can get 36 miles per hour so overnight you will be charged. With V2 superchargers add about 5 minutes to the V3 supercharging times:


You only have to charge as much as you need

Most of the people charge at home and most of the congestion with Superchargers are from people traveling in California during holidays.

Your assumptions about charging are incorrect. The main challenge with charge rates is mostly because of current battery technology. For me charging my car is more convenient than going to the gas station. I charge at home or at work. EV are not for everyone yet.

This got me to thinking... I know this can be a bad idea. Maybe they should run peoples credit cards. Charge X amount of dollars for the first hour after that start cranking up the credits as time prolongs. This should keep people from sitting on a pole. Heck do this for the free chargers...

BlitZ
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:25 AM   #2653
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Longer video on the modified Model Y
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:54 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
This got me to thinking... I know this can be a bad idea. Maybe they should run peoples credit cards. Charge X amount of dollars for the first hour after that start cranking up the credits as time prolongs. This should keep people from sitting on a pole. Heck do this for the free chargers...

BlitZ

It's an issue of common courtesy and decency. These people won't change their bogarting ways, because they don't care about your or anywhere else. I don't go to the cineplexes anymore because of phone use. Used to you'd go to see a film and the most you'd deal with is some couple talking, but they'd do it remotely quietly. Now it's hey I need to check my phone 20 times during the film, deal with it. I see the same at the gym, any gym etiquette is gone and it's never coming back. These younger generations have been brought up to be narcissists by their parents and many of them are the bulk Tesla buyer. What's funny is they bought a higher priced vehicle then spend their time trying chintz and get free charging when it's not even worth the trouble. I had free charging for years available to me and rarely used it. And if I did, I'd hook it up until someone else came along and if I had enough juice to get to my home or destination or whatever, I'd be courteous and bail. On the flip side, when I had to wait, each ass hole would make sure they charged to 100% before leaving. I never got the courtesy back. This is society today. The "me" culture.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:20 PM   #2655
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Tesla superchargers charge idle fees.

As for public chargers, well the only solution is to charge people or build more chargers. I think we already talked about this in this thread or another thread, but basically any any charging solution that relies on people inconveniencing themselves with no financial incentive to do so is doomed to fail.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:58 PM   #2656
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Please quantify ďnear future.Ē
When does the new Roadster come out?

The generation 911 that is developed after that.

That said, pretty sure that car already exists and is called the Cayman.

I can see Porsche surrendering the numbers war and focusing on more engaging (is it possible?) driving dynamics. Certainly would be a win for the enthusiasts.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:05 AM   #2657
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Tesla superchargers charge idle fees.

As for public chargers, well the only solution is to charge people or build more chargers. I think we already talked about this in this thread or another thread, but basically any any charging solution that relies on people inconveniencing themselves with no financial incentive to do so is doomed to fail.
Public charging is an inconvenience.

We charge at home. Wife wakes up, goes to work. Full tank everyday.

Public charging is for two things.

1: Range extension

2: People that donít have charging at home.

#2 completely eliminates public charging anxieties, all we have to do is require new apartments to provide X% of EV stations per X tenants. Either make them ďfreeĒ part of overall utilities since the price diff would be minimal per tenant, or provide charging cards to use the chargers and charge the user (more complex, will cost more unless marking up the electricity)
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:09 AM   #2658
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When does the new Roadster come out?

The generation 911 that is developed after that.

That said, pretty sure that car already exists and is called the Cayman.

I can see Porsche surrendering the numbers war and focusing on more engaging (is it possible?) driving dynamics. Certainly would be a win for the enthusiasts.
Maybe, maybe not. Again, itís not all about speed. If the roadster has the same stale feeling as their current cars and basic as **** interior, I donít see it ripping away Porsche owners. Sure, it will walk any 911 in a straight line and likely any road coarse but for many, there is more to an enthusiast / sports car than just that.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:20 AM   #2659
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Tesla won't be the only one with a sports car EV. They're just the ones that will shift the goalposts to where straight-line speed isn't special anymore; anyone can have that with the commoditized technology that will be available from suppliers. This will be in 5 years, or 10 years or 15 years depending on if the bulls or bears are right about the tech advancement.

Engagement with better handling, feel, traction control, autopilot, etc will differentiate. Porsche will have value here, but will it be enough to maintain their profit margins?
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:45 AM   #2660
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
mfor many, there is more to an enthusiast / sports car than just that.

(This would be where ego enters the equation.)
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:51 PM   #2661
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What's funny is they bought a higher priced vehicle then spend their time trying chintz and get free charging when it's not even worth the trouble.
Its part of the mental gymnastics they need to go through to convince themselves that buying a Telsa is a prudent financial decision vs buying a gas powered car even though the TCO numbers never stack up.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:11 PM   #2662
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(This would be where ego enters the equation.)
Not really, itís preference of the enthusiast. Go talk to the Porsche guys. Many of them have had a Tesla and echo what I said. Maybe you should follow along in this thread to where I have said buy what makes you happy and that I also donít have anything against Tesla. Great cars, they are fast, just not what Iím after.

I fail to see ego but I can gladly point you to your OT thread
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:53 PM   #2663
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I drive a 2007 Toyota. Wife has a minivan. Those are not vehicles to stroke the ego.

Porsches, and other men appreciating them (most women donít care), is ego.
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:31 PM   #2664
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Its part of the mental gymnastics they need to go through to convince themselves that buying a Telsa is a prudent financial decision vs buying a gas powered car even though the TCO numbers never stack up.
new vs new, similar price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I drive a 2007 Toyota. Wife has a minivan. Those are not vehicles to stroke the ego.

Porsches, and other men appreciating them (most women donít care), is ego.
they need to add has a soul to this one

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Old 08-03-2020, 01:44 AM   #2665
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Its part of the mental gymnastics they need to go through to convince themselves that buying a Telsa is a prudent financial decision vs buying a gas powered car even though the TCO numbers never stack up.
Itís More ďfake lifeĒ bs to me. I DD an EV, and I debadged it years ago. It was an inexpensive purchase. The Tesla drivers at work, when I pull into a charger, well Iíve had two of them chastise me for using the charger when they were all full because ďmy car takes longer than yours, I need the charger!Ē. Iím like F U. You bought a 50k+ car and you are whining about the chargers being full so you canít get free sheet. Dude I go by there, if the chargers are full I go about my business and donít make a fuss. Itís not that big of a deal. They get livid. Broke ass canít even afford your car. You remind me of busters buying 328iís and putting M wheels on there, and debadging it.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:51 AM   #2666
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Itís More ďfake lifeĒ bs to me. I DD an EV, and I debadged it years ago. It was an inexpensive purchase. The Tesla drivers at work, when I pull into a charger, well Iíve had two of them chastise me for using the charger when they were all full because ďmy car takes longer than yours, I need the charger!Ē. Iím like F U. You bought a 50k+ car and you are whining about the chargers being full so you canít get free sheet. Dude I go by there, if the chargers are full I go about my business and donít make a fuss. Itís not that big of a deal. They get livid. Broke ass canít even afford your car. You remind me of busters buying 328iís and putting M wheels on there, and debadging it.
I used to have a coworker who had a similar personality. One day he bought a turbo diesel VW Golf and we all congratulated him etc. Then he starts going on and on about why would anyone buy a petrol car and insinuating we are idiots because we haven't got a diesel and how much money we are wasting.

So I fired up excel, put in the diesel vs petrol golf price, then worked out how much the price difference would earn with compound interest and it turned out he needed to do many years and 160,000 km before he broke even.

Thankfully he shut up about it after that. A lot of the tesla guys are the same, going on about how much they save with each fill up but ignore the extra up front cost vs a similar petrol car.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:24 AM   #2667
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I drive a 2007 Toyota. Wife has a minivan. Those are not vehicles to stroke the ego.

Porsches, and other men appreciating them (most women donít care), is ego.
Do I really need to include your OT link in here or did you seem to forget about it?
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:29 AM   #2668
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When I bought my Tesla I calculated in gas savings from charging at work as part of the "how financially dumb is this" calculation. 10 months later I'm working from home and driving like it like 200 miles a month.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:31 AM   #2669
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When I bought my Tesla I calculated in gas savings from charging at work as part of the "how financially dumb is this" calculation. 10 months later I'm working from home and driving like it like 200 miles a month.
mine get driven less than that now days . I was just told that we are working from home until January .
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:57 AM   #2670
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When I bought my Tesla I calculated in gas savings from charging at work as part of the "how financially dumb is this" calculation. 10 months later I'm working from home and driving like it like 200 miles a month.
Just curious, but what was your precious vehicle and how long did you figure you would break even, and then start saving money (factoring in additional cost of vehicle purchase with tax, title license).

Iím highly debating on dumping the Raptor (itís a fun truck that does exactly 0 things really well) and either getting a 2018íish Lariat for $35k range or getting a leaf / bolt for DD (used) and an older truck for towing and Home Depot runs.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:18 PM   #2671
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Do I really need to include your OT link in here or did you seem to forget about it?

The one where I concluded that getting a minivan was in order and got one (and then another identical one a year later)?
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Old 08-03-2020, 02:00 PM   #2672
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Just curious, but what was your precious vehicle and how long did you figure you would break even, and then start saving money (factoring in additional cost of vehicle purchase with tax, title license).

I'm highly debating on dumping the Raptor (it's a fun truck that does exactly 0 things really well) and either getting a 2018'ish Lariat for $35k range or getting a leaf / bolt for DD (used) and an older truck for towing and Home Depot runs.
Previously I daily drove a Challenger R/T 5.7 manual trans, which I could get 18-20mpg out of depending how I dove it. And I also had a mostly stock '95 Rx-7, which I didn't drive that often. That was like anywhere from 13-20mpg depending on driving.

Work commute was ~45 miles round trip monday through Friday driving 80mph, mostly interstate. I was spending $150-$200 a month in gas on the Challenger. With the Tesla I could get charging at work often enough that I would go several months at a time without paying for juice. That's with a long range AWD Model 3 - realistically I could go to work and back about 3 or maybe 4 times keeping the battery between 80-20%, with winter being less. I have a 120V outlet at my rental house garage; 240V isn't an option as it would require major wiring upgrades that I'm not going to pay for.

This past Saturday I did a day trip to about 3 hours away, stopping twice at a supercharger. I got home with 17% juice on Saturday evening, and it took about 36 hours to charge back up to 80%. I had nowhere to go though, and two ICE cars I could drive if I wanted to. I could have gone around town the next morning no problem from an overnight charge on 120V.

My lying-to-myself, this-isn't-so-bad logic was this: 6 year loan at 3.9% (at the time, interest rates higher in May 2019), $720 a month. Subtract $200 a month from the foregone gas spending, BOOM, $520 a month, same payment as the average new car in 2019! Of course I understand the real math quite well. It was never about breaking even; I don't have any credit card debt or anything like that. I blow money on cars like many other people here. This hasn't been a financial hardship for me at all though, I am not stretched by any means. Now I have the Tesla and no Challenger. I sold the Rx-7 and replaced it with a $5000 2002 Miata.

Let's face it though, these kinds of car buying decisions aren't based on rational financial decision making. Otherwise we'd all be driving used Camry's and used RAV4's.

Last edited by arghx7; 08-03-2020 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:28 PM   #2673
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The one where I concluded that getting a minivan was in order and got one (and then another identical one a year later)?
Oh for ****s sake, quiet playing daft and just continue to post in OT about some sort of justification of buying new vehicles despite everyone telling you you wonít financially benefit from it.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:30 PM   #2674
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Being financially dumb relative to some used econocar baseline is different from buying a Porsche because your bro-dudes will think highly of you.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:37 PM   #2675
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Previously I daily drove a Challenger R/T 5.7 manual trans, which I could get 18-20mpg out of depending how I dove it. And I also had a mostly stock '95 Rx-7, which I didn't drive that often. That was like anywhere from 13-20mpg depending on driving.

Work commute was ~45 miles round trip monday through Friday driving 80mph, mostly interstate. I was spending $150-$200 a month in gas on the Challenger. With the Tesla I could get charging at work often enough that I would go several months at a time without paying for juice. That's with a long range AWD Model 3 - realistically I could go to work and back about 3 or maybe 4 times keeping the battery between 80-20%, with winter being less. I have a 120V outlet at my rental house garage; 240V isn't an option as it would require major wiring upgrades that I'm not going to pay for.

This past Saturday I did a day trip to about 3 hours away, stopping twice at a supercharger. I got home with 17% juice on Saturday evening, and it took about 36 hours to charge back up to 80%. I had nowhere to go though, and two ICE cars I could drive if I wanted to. I could have gone around town the next morning no problem from an overnight charge on 120V.

My lying-to-myself, this-isn't-so-bad logic was this: 6 year loan at 3.9% (at the time, interest rates higher in May 2019), $720 a month. Subtract $200 a month from the foregone gas spending, BOOM, $520 a month, same payment as the average new car in 2019! Of course I understand the real math quite well. It was never about breaking even; I don't have any credit card debt or anything like that. I blow money on cars like many other people here. This hasn't been a financial hardship for me at all though, I am not stretched by any means. Now I have the Tesla and no Challenger. I sold the Rx-7 and replaced it with a $5000 2002 Miata.

Let's face it though, these kinds of car buying decisions aren't based on rational financial decision making. Otherwise we'd all be driving used Camry's and used RAV4's.
Yeah, my situation might be different which is why Iím trying to weight the overall cost. I drive (pre covid) 30k miles a year, roughly and there are not places for me to charge and Iím driving between hospitals. Some days I drive 5 miles, other 500. Average is probably between 20-90 miles a day with normal calls. I would need a truck for obvious towing and when I have to haul my medical equipment for a trial or rental / emergent need situation.

I mostly want an EV to reduce my carbon footprint but at the same time, having 2 vehicles seems like a pain and Iím not sure the math pencils out for my situation.

Now, give me an EV truck like an F150 where I can get 350 miles with AC blasting and medical equipment in the cab and bed and now weíre talking.

I just hate my Raptor, lol. I thought it would be fun for off roading but itís not. It does okay but nothing amazing without doing things for fear of big cost repairs that wonít be warrantied. It sucks for towing, itís definitely not amazing on fuel but surprisingly not horrible either. The ride isnít as comfy as my prior f150 (regret trading in.)

The lady is due for a new vehicle in 6-8 months and we might be looking at the Ford Mach E, although I am wary of first gen new tech. Sheís thinks Teslaís are cool but doesnít like the driving experience / aspect and wants something SUV / CUV size. Basically a CX-5 EV would be money. She likes the Ford Edge which weíre looking at and the Mach E seems to be about the same size. Pricing might push us out though as were starting her practice up in the fall and thatís going to drain a lot of my capital resources for a bit.


I just need to win the lottery ***128514;
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