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Old 02-08-2022, 09:24 AM   #201
SoDealer
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https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/

Quote:
Lap Time: 3:12.4
Class: LL1 | Base: $31,455 | As Tested: $31,455
Power and Weight: 228 hp • 2842 lb • 12.5 lb/hp
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 4, 215/40R-18 85Y

The playful character that makes the BRZ such fun to drive on the street—its quick-witted responses and willingness to slide its tail—is every bit as present at VIR. It's a heart-racing blast that slip-slides through corners, even if it posts the slowest lap time of the year.

Compared with the 2018 BRZ tS at Lightning Lap 12, this second-gen Limited model has a significantly stiffer suspension and structure and a new 2.4-liter flat-four with 23 more horsepower and 28 more pound-feet of torque. It runs on the same 215/40R-18 Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires. But it lacks the tS's firm Sachs dampers, big rear wing, and stout Brembo brakes. The new model's brakes are marginal for track use, but with high-temp DOT 4 brake fluid added by Subaru, the BRZ will survive two consecutive laps without any pedal-to-the-floor issues.

Given the new BRZ's mechanical pluses and minuses, we expected it to lap faster than the tS, and it did, by 1.6 seconds. The new car takes half-second bites out of the tS in Sectors 1, 2, and 5, while they remain virtually equal through Sectors 3 and 4. The difference in horsepower is obvious on the front straight, where the Limited's 127.4-mph peak speed is 8.7 mph higher than the tS's.

Like its predecessor, the new model is deeply fun to balance on the knife edge of its neutral chassis. A quick lap requires you to keep oversteer at bay, sliding just enough—but not too much—to help rotate the car. That requires judicious use of the throttle and quick hands to catch the rear the moment it starts to act. Get it right in the sweeping NASCAR bend and the left-right-left-right cutbacks of the Infield, and you'll feel a jolt of electricity run through you. Lap times, schmap times.
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Old 02-08-2022, 02:34 PM   #202
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PREACH
Quote:
Get it right in the sweeping NASCAR bend and the left-right-left-right cutbacks of the Infield, and you'll feel a jolt of electricity run through you. Lap times, schmap times.
AMEN!!!
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Old 02-08-2022, 03:28 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
On the GR86 vs the BRZ:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car & Driver
The GR86 is 0.6 second quicker, with 0.4 second of its advantage coming in the sector that includes the tight bends of Oak Tree and Bitch and the long back straight. Around the rest of the lap, it trades tiny increments of time and speed back and forth with the Subaru. Measured against history, the GR86 is 2.2 seconds quicker than the 2018 BRZ tS we ran in Lightning Lap 12.

This year's Lightning Lap did unearth a shared shortcoming with the Toyobaru twins: Without the BRZ's brake-fluid upgrade, the GR86's brakes were so feeble, they'd inch closer and closer to the floor as the lap went on. They kept performing, just not inspiring. So, if you're hoping to track either of these coupes, we recommend at least replacing the brake fluid and stock pads. That's not all they have in common, of course.
Brakes are even worse than the BRZs due to lower-temp brake fluid from the factory. (VIR is hell on brakes.. Better buy a GTI if you expect a stock car to handle PIR.. I mean VIR.. ).

2021 Civic R: 3:00.7 (A tie with the Ford GT in 2006!! Track was resurfaced for 2014, so not really a direct comparison).
2022 Golf R: 3:04.3 (an 8 second improvement over the 2015 R)
2018 STI Type RA: 3:04.9
2015 STI: 3:10.5
2018 WRX w/ PP: 3:11.5
2022 GR86: 3:11.8
2022 GTI: 3:12.1 (but possibly a 3:10.6)
2022 BRZ: 3:12.4
2017 Civic Si: 3:14.6
2015 WRX: 3:15.5
2018 MX-5 RF Club (ND2): 3:17.2

Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 02-08-2022 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 02-08-2022, 03:55 PM   #204
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Quote:
2021 Civic Si: 3:00.7 (A tie with the Ford GT in 2006!! Track was resurfaced for 2014, so not really a direct comparison).
That's the type R LE, not Si.
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Old 02-08-2022, 04:35 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
On the GR86 vs the BRZ:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/
Brakes are even worse than the BRZs due to lower-temp brake fluid from the factory. (VIR is hell on brakes.. Better buy a GTI if you expect a stock car to handle PIR.. I mean VIR.. ).

2021 Civic Si: 3:00.7 (A tie with the Ford GT in 2006!! Track was resurfaced for 2014, so not really a direct comparison).
2022 Golf R: 3:04.3 (an 8 second improvement over the 2015 R)
2018 STI Type RA: 3:04.9
2015 STI: 3:10.5
2018 WRX w/ PP: 3:11.5
2022 GR86: 3:11.8
2022 GTI: 3:12.1
2022 BRZ: 3:12.4

2017 Civic Si: 3:14.6
2015 WRX: 3:15.5
2018 MX-5 RF Club (ND2): 3:17.2
This is directed at me. So let's read

Quote:
Unfortunately, the GTI's lap time doesn't represent how far it's come. The driver, who shall remain nameless, claims to have seen a 3:10.6 on the VBox readout—but the VBox rookie forgot to slide a memory card into the unit, so there's no proof.
Also

Quote:
The new car's real edge is in its chassis. We've never driven a GTI that was so poised and planted; understeer at the limit is minimal, more like what you'd expect in a rear-driver. The electronically controlled limited-slip differential eliminates time-wasting wheelspin while exiting the tight Oak Tree corner, and there is no need for stability control, which can now be turned fully off. The GTI feels so good and trusty that it averaged 118.5 mph through the daunting Climbing Esses, a mere 1.1 mph slower than the M3 Competition xDrive.
In summary, yeah I probably will.
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Old 02-08-2022, 05:43 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by bemani View Post
That's the type R LE, not Si.
Doh! I was looking for an Si result, but they only had a much older one. I then went to the R and didn't pay attention to what I'd already written on the list. fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
This is directed at me. So let's read
You're correct.. I was referring (with the "PIR.. I mean VIR.. " bit)to our previous banter about your expectation that your buddy's BRZ/FRS/GT86 should have been wearing track-worthy brakes from the start while your GTI handled it just fine.

I was not criticising the GTI in any way. I was a big fan of the MKVII and I remain a fan of the new one. Should they completely revamp the infotainment system, I might even consider spending my own money on one someday. Sorry for not posting the unofficial time. I've edited it.
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Old 02-08-2022, 05:58 PM   #207
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Whoa, great times for the twins!
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Old 02-08-2022, 07:28 PM   #208
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Is it crazy to think a 2022 brz with a light tune can beat a 2022 stock wrx. and mind you subaru has not released the performance package of the brz yet. there is much to wait for.
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:03 PM   #209
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I watched the Lightning Lap video on YouTube tonight. I was left very impressed by every car (and SUV) that they showed. Cars have come so far!
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:23 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bemani View Post
That's the type R LE, not Si.
Everyone buy Si’s. Deal of the mafk century!
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Old 02-09-2022, 12:50 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
San Diego. Frank Subaru and Sunroad both will do MSRP, no markup.
You're awesome, I'll be sure to hit them up. Thank you!
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Old 02-09-2022, 06:36 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
Is it crazy to think a 2022 brz with a light tune can beat a 2022 stock wrx. and mind you subaru has not released the performance package of the brz yet. there is much to wait for.
They both have a similar power to weight ratio out of the box.

WRX - 12.18lb/1hp
BRZ - 12.35lb/1hp

What the BRZ has going for it is far less weight to tote around. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather a lighter car with "the same" power to weight ratio over a heavier car; extra weight means brakes work harder, tires work harder, driver works harder all to achieve similar numbers in the end. For every horsepower you add to the BRZ you'll need to add 20% more to the WRX for it to keep pace.
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Old 02-09-2022, 08:52 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
They both have a similar power to weight ratio out of the box.

WRX - 12.18lb/1hp
BRZ - 12.35lb/1hp

What the BRZ has going for it is far less weight to tote around. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather a lighter car with "the same" power to weight ratio over a heavier car; extra weight means brakes work harder, tires work harder, driver works harder all to achieve similar numbers in the end. For every horsepower you add to the BRZ you'll need to add 20% more to the WRX for it to keep pace.

+1
This is perfectly illustrated in this year's lightning lap by Car and driver, all these other faster cars' tires are giving up the ghost by the end of the second lap. Sure, they're faster cars on street tires and brakes, but the point stands.
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Old 02-09-2022, 09:12 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisingAnarchy View Post
+1
This is perfectly illustrated in this year's lightning lap by Car and driver, all these other faster cars' tires are giving up the ghost by the end of the second lap. Sure, they're faster cars on street tires and brakes, but the point stands.
Your point is valid, but the twins also had braking issues.
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Old 02-09-2022, 09:55 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougNuts View Post
Your point is valid, but the twins also had braking issues.
Pads/fluid for the track dude. Did they swap to a better compound track pad suited for the track. Was the brake fluid swapped out? Other publications have done this and beat the thing to death on the track without issue.
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Old 02-09-2022, 12:48 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
They both have a similar power to weight ratio out of the box.

WRX - 12.18lb/1hp
BRZ - 12.35lb/1hp

What the BRZ has going for it is far less weight to tote around. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather a lighter car with "the same" power to weight ratio over a heavier car; extra weight means brakes work harder, tires work harder, driver works harder all to achieve similar numbers in the end. For every horsepower you add to the BRZ you'll need to add 20% more to the WRX for it to keep pace.
Less weight and a much better weight distribution(50-50 versus 60-40). The twins' engine is low and and set back.
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Old 02-09-2022, 12:59 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Pads/fluid for the track dude. Did they swap to a better compound track pad suited for the track. Was the brake fluid swapped out? Other publications have done this and beat the thing to death on the track without issue.
Subaru went to an higher temp fluid but they didn't change the pads:

Quote:
[...]The new model's brakes are marginal for track use, but with high-temp DOT 4 brake fluid added by Subaru, the BRZ will survive two consecutive laps without any pedal-to-the-floor issues.[...]
I'd slap some Carbotech XP10 in there and call it a day.
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Old 02-09-2022, 01:26 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Subaru went to an higher temp fluid but they didn't change the pads:



I'd slap some Carbotech XP10 in there and call it a day.
I'm going to nuke the problem, YOLO

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Old 02-09-2022, 03:12 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Subaru went to an higher temp fluid but they didn't change the pads:

I know. They don't track prep. There are people banging the F out of these with pad swap and better fluid with no issues at the track.
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Old 02-09-2022, 04:03 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
Is it crazy to think a 2022 brz with a light tune can beat a 2022 stock wrx. and mind you subaru has not released the performance package of the brz yet. there is much to wait for.
When did they test a 2022 WRX ?
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Old 02-09-2022, 04:17 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
When did they test a 2022 WRX ?
they didn't, however it is only a matter of time before buyers cross shop those two vehicles as soon as owners get their first wrx's
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Old 02-09-2022, 04:46 PM   #222
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lightning lap is always an interesting annual study, things are getting weird.

Gtis are over 40k, and the slowest SUV they tested this year (of 3) is a faster track car than my Exige-S.

Seems like a decent showing from the twins, I wonder if they will be able to handle a 20 min session on most tracks with only streetable pads and fluid. Maybe someplace tighter than vir.
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Old 02-09-2022, 04:49 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
I'm going to nuke the problem, YOLO

That's what I did with my Golf R; learned my lesson from rebuild the 4-pot calipers of my 06 WRX Wagon a couple of times because of track days.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:42 PM   #224
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:19 PM   #225
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Car and driver commentary on the BRZ/86


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