Next Gen STI Canceled

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by DeRock25

Isn't it just the US STI that had th EJ for so long.. the internation s209 had a 2.0 i thought.. i googled it some time past... the US was the one sticking with the 2.5... i believe.. and that was also emmisions driven.. (EDIT: just googled it again.. and the japan spec sti has had a fa20 since 2015)

emissions calculations are based off of fuel consumption.. and considring the AWD kills mpg... i think subaru pretty much starts with trying to dig themselves out of a hole.. since all their cars are AWD except 1...2 now..thanks EV

And I was not privy to anything about the STI halting production.. or the EPA changes.. but it is a known DI fact that direct injection is not effecient at low loads...(its a differential pressure thing) my hope was the STI which usually has a different intake then the wrx anyway would be some form of dual mode fuel injection...like on the gr86... hopes dashed...

the FA24 in the ascent... using remote start for 10 minutes brings the average mpg down by .2 on my wifes car with like 5k on it... economy with no load is horrible...

I did read about that fa24 in the crosstrek and it was sick.. like 428hp reliable... above that DI wasn't providing enough fuel.. and it leaned out... but they wanted to see what would give first so they kept pushing it anway... got to almost 500 when the lean a/f created so much heat it melted a piston... but with over 60 pulls on the dyno compression leakdown test showed less then 5% on any cylinder... which is very good...

I am a fan of the fa24.. i will be doing all the bolt ons i can afford for my wrx after my engine is broken in... problably an ams tune.. maybe...

i am a bit heartbroken my wrx wont be getting a big brother... I don't think electric is the answer as much as e85 or alternate fuels would be...

The EJ20 was in service in Japan for 30 years. They stopped production in 2019 and made a special edition STI for it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...final-edition/

We were the only market to get the S209. And it was an off the shelf EJ257 that had STI parts fitted to it. Our market has had the EJ257 in the STI since 2004, while JDM STI had the EJ207 since the version 6 STI in 1998, and an EJ20G and EJ20k back to 1996 the first year of the Impreza WRX STI. Before that it was just the WRX and before the Impreza began in 1993 it was in the Legacy from 1989.

What else...yeah that's about it. Sorry I've been mean to the WRX because it has ugly butt. It just does.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[Pre]

What is funny about his post, is that those same enthusiasts he is bitching about, in regards to NOT liking the WRX, were extremely hopeful the STi wouldn't have the same issues. The low redline, the prolapse rear bumper, and especially the body cladding. They fixed all that, many many sales here. You can't blame their ugly ass WRX on enthusiasts. The enthusiasts didn't design the car. So it's a stupid argument.

My advice to the STi fans who were all geared up for the new car: Booby canceled your car, so cancel them. Do what many of us have done, and leave the brand for another brand, another vehicle. Reward those making the cool **** with your money. That's the problem with Booby nuts this whole time. They didn't demand better, didn't demand more. They kept giving SOA/SOJ their hard earned money. That's called being an enabler and they double downed on what you'd put up with, with that new WRX and Vaya Con Dios to the STi. Nothing new really though. They did that to all the hatch and 5 door people in 2014.

[AVANTI R5]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

The thing is, Subaru can most certainly surprise us with an STI before the year is over. It just won't be a WRX STI. It'll simply be an "STI" STI, showcasing performance electrification of some sort.

I don't know a ton about cars, so yesterday I Googled "hybrid performance cars". Nothing really out there at all. Maybe Subaru knows something others don't, but I don't see a performance hybrid being affordable for most people. Or maybe they cracked the code and the next STI will be like the game-changing STI (and WRX) when they debuted stateside. I dunno.

Strike up a conversation with STI owners and most don't know what it is, where it is made, etc.

Anyway, reading their racing press releases gives some direction or thought of what Sti is going forward. Like this blurb I'll post fron Jan14,22..The bottom part about Super Taikyu Series says a lot about where their headed I think (shrug). Plus, with everything going on it's a day to day see what happens kind of atmosphere. You can't plan for anything in the future. Covid is far from over. We where just lucky the last variant wasn't bad. Next could worst then Delta and that was just Summer last year. I got off track.
I think their partnership with Toyota, Synthetic fuel, popularity of new Brz , Will factor into what Subaru sells us in North America for the car enthusiast.

Tokyo, January 14, 2022 - Subaru Corporation and its motorsport subsidiary Subaru Tecnica International Inc. (STI)*1 announced an overview of motorsport activities for 2022.

2022_0114_1-1_2022-01-13-185734 2022_0114_1-2_2022-01-13-190658
SUBARU BRZ GT300 2021 WRX STI NBR Challenge 2022




SUPER GT Series
Subaru will compete in the GT300 class of the SUPER GT Series with the SUBARU BRZ GT300 race car. In 2021 series, the team won the series championship for the first time in the 13 years of racing in the SUPER GT Series.
The Team General Manager will be Masahiro Ozawa of STI, and team operations will be managed by R&D SPORT*2. Takuto Iguchi and Hideki Yamauchi, the championship winning drivers in the 2021 season, will be driving for the team again for the 2022 series.

The race car for 2022 incorporates refinements including increased power output and improved reliability in Subaru Boxer engine, optimized chassis design and aerodynamics as well as improved roadholding performance. With these refinements, Subaru aims to win the second consecutive series championship.



Nürburgring 24-Hour Race
The 50th Nürburgring 24-Hour Race will take place in Germany on May 28-29, and Subaru will compete in the SP3T class*3 with the WRX STI NBR Challenge 2022 race car for the first time in 3 years since 2019.

The Team General Manager Hideharu Tatsumi and the Team Manager Takuya Sawada both from STI will lead the team and four drivers, Kota Sasaki (Japan), Carlo van Dam (Netherlands), Tim Schrick (Germany), and Marcel Lasee (Germany) will be driving for the team.

Compared to the 2021 race car, the 2022 car wears wider tires, has the body rigidity balance been reviewed and received body stiffening. With the adoption of an electric power steering on top of these, the team pursues even better performance than the class winning 2019 race car. With the enhanced overall performance, Subaru aims to win the SP3T class and best-ever overall ranking for the team above 18th in the 2019 race.


Japanese Rally Championship
Subaru will be supporting three drivers, Takuma Kamada, who has placed the third overall in the 2021 series ranking, Toshihiro Arai and Hiroki Arai. These drivers will be competing in the JN1*4 class of the Japanese Rally Championship with the WRX STI rally cars.



TOYOTA GAZOO Racing GR86/BRZ Cup
STI will dispatch its technical service team to each round of TOYOTA GAZOO Racing GR86/BRZ Cup race and provide technical supports for the SUBARU BRZ drivers.





Super Taikyu Series
In order to have various options toward the realization of carbon neutrality, Subaru will participate in the Super Taikyu Series with the race car using carbon neutral synthetic fuel. Our alliance partner Toyota also plans to participate in the series.

For this challenge, SUBARU newly develops a SUBARU BRZ based race car powered by an internal combustion engine that uses carbon neutral synthetic fuel and participates in ST-Q*5 class to implement testing at racing events. Toyota also participates in the same class with a GR86 based race car.

With the members of Subaru Driving Academy*6 at its core, Subaru employees belonging to Subaru Engineering Division will work on the challenge and take a role to develop and build the race car. The team will be led by the team manager Masahito Motoi, and as for drivers, Super GT Driver Takuto Iguchi and Hideki Yamauchi along with a Subaru engineer Koichi Hirota will be driving the race car.
By collaborating and competing together in racing, Subaru and Toyota plan to accelerate the development of technologies for all options and take on the challenge of achieving carbon neutrality.


Subaru will also utilize this opportunity for development of engineering human resources for our future.

*1: Located in Mitaka, Tokyo, the company manages motorsport activities of Subaru
*2: Located in Hiratsuka, Kanagawa
*3: Class for sub-2.0 liter turbocharged vehicles
*4: Class for over-2.5 liter vehicles (For vehicles with a turbocharger, the displacement is calculated as x 1.7)
*5: Class for manufacturer-developed racing vehicles and racing vehicles not belonging to any other category approved by Super Taikyu Organization
*6: A human resources development initiative to raise driving and evaluation skills of Subaru engineers

Need5

[DeRock25]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

The EJ20 was in service in Japan for 30 years. They stopped production in 2019 and made a special edition STI for it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...final-edition/

We were the only market to get the S209. And it was an off the shelf EJ257 that had STI parts fitted to it. Our market has had the EJ257 in the STI since 2004, while JDM STI had the EJ207 since the version 6 STI in 1998, and an EJ20G and EJ20k back to 1996 the first year of the Impreza WRX STI. Before that it was just the WRX and before the Impreza began in 1993 it was in the Legacy from 1989.

What else...yeah that's about it. Sorry I've been mean to the WRX because it has ugly butt. It just does.

The s4 was available from 2015 - Jan 24th 2021 with an FA20... I guess that doesn't count... I mean it says sti all over it... but you are correct it is not designated a WRX STI... with cool s**T on it... like VTD... and the FA20...


I will probably get a new rear bumper... somebody will find a great one aftermarket within 6 months.. post some pics on the forum and it will be on 60% of them by the end of 2022...

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Pre

Just look at the WRX with a mere center diff, and check the MPG. Other performance car mfr’s are running big power and getting MPG. The new WRX has worse MPG than the old one so imagine a FA24 STi. Terrible MPG.

The reality is it’s not Cali, CARB, the EPA, nor anything else. Booby phoned it in. What world are you living in? The STi was relatively, the same got damn car the entire time it was imported. Engine changes? Nope. Please save the sodium filled valves etc. It was an EJ the entire time, a 90’s engine. Anything significant changes to the AWD system? Nope. Torque vectoring via the shafts? Nope. Sorry, one trick pony.

It seems the only way for a performance AWD car to meet the new regulations is for it to decouple an axle. Having a center differential seems to be the killer.

Even Audi is switching their longitudinal cars to a new Ultra AWD, which is not your old school Torsen center, instead it literally decouples the rear axle from the system. It's basically Haldex for longitudinal cars.

Originally Posted by DeRock25

The s4 was available from 2015 - Jan 24th 2021 with an FA20... I guess that doesn't count... I mean it says sti all over it... but you are correct it is not designated a WRX STI... with cool s**T on it... like VTD... and the FA20...

Correct, the S4 is not an STI. The S4 is WRX. The WRX S4 STI Sport is just a WRX with accessories. It is not a STI with DCCD, etc.

It's like a BMW M40i vs a BMW M4. They are different. One is accessories and looks, the other is a legit M car.

[cbk57]

Originally Posted by Pre

What is funny about his post, is that those same enthusiasts he is bitching about, in regards to NOT liking the WRX, were extremely hopeful the STi wouldn't have the same issues. The low redline, the prolapse rear bumper, and especially the body cladding. They fixed all that, many many sales here. You can't blame their ugly ass WRX on enthusiasts. The enthusiasts didn't design the car. So it's a stupid argument.

My advice to the STi fans who were all geared up for the new car: Booby canceled your car, so cancel them. Do what many of us have done, and leave the brand for another brand, another vehicle. Reward those making the cool **** with your money. That's the problem with Booby nuts this whole time. They didn't demand better, didn't demand more. They kept giving SOA/SOJ their hard earned money. That's called being an enabler and they double downed on what you'd put up with, with that new WRX and Vaya Con Dios to the STi. Nothing new really though. They did that to all the hatch and 5 door people in 2014.

You don:t have to abandon Subaru if you love the STI, there are plenty of cars out there that can be rebuilt or reconditioned. Prices may go up, but for some time it will be cheaper to build or rebuild a Subaru than go buy an M3 as long as you don:t go stupid with your build. Current generation STIs will be around. They will also hold value with the not having a new one replace it.

[Russ_G93]

Along with what everyone else was saying about the car being DOA a year ago and that if Subaru was serious, they would have registered the Engine before the known new rules were to be announced;
The whole company both Japan or USA side were having frequent 2-3 week shutdowns. That probably didn't just go for production / assembly, but also rotated into all the other departments including STI and other design elements. I mean yeah they could have done a last Hurrah like the New Z, Golf R, etc, but in my opinion the S209 (as limited as it is) is just that as far as what we the enthusiast thirsted for. 2015-2021, thats a pretty good amount of time. Almost like it was on purpose. Im sure they all knew what was going to happen based off upcoming cars like the Hummer and that of new companies like Rivian. Perhaps them shooting for the moon, is jumping ahead the curve with the implication of a STI that yes, still gets 400hp but also 320-390 ft lb of Instant torque with a price tag that will be partially sweetened with federal tax incentives. Subaru is normally the Dinosaur tech company. But what a time to jump ahead of other Japanese rivals who are still doing a ICE flagship sports cars (that just dropped a time committed new Generation). Subaru pretty much positioned themselves to "Set the bar" as far as Japanese performance cars go. Plus companies like Audi, is already into almost full electrification integration with a good portion of their line-up. In our Solterra Training, apparently close to 40 companies worldwide will be offering all electric options by 2025.
I mean as ive said before, I think the s209 is like the creme of the crop as far as anything Subaru can offer in our current time of ICE vehicles.
Im sure an explanation of the decision will drop in a few.

But also too, **** lithium and its toxicity after use. Solid State Batteries will ruin the market for everyone else using anything lithium.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by cbk57

You don:t have to abandon Subaru if you love the STI, there are plenty of cars out there that can be rebuilt or reconditioned. Prices may go up, but for some time it will be cheaper to build or rebuild a Subaru than go buy an M3 as long as you don:t go stupid with your build. Current generation STIs will be around. They will also hold value with the not having a new one replace it.

It's a tough call; I love the STI but I don't trust EJ257.
I have pulled an EJ255 (blown HG) and it's an easy engine to work on once it's on a stand.
But, the fact remains that EJ25 pings and knocks too darn much on 91 pump gas; that's what damaged one of the 2 HGs in the first place.
It's a fundamental issue with that engine; there are solutions but I'm not sure I want to deal with it in the long run (e.g. flex fuel setup and tuning).

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

It seems the only way for a performance AWD car to meet the new regulations is for it to decouple an axle. Having a center differential seems to be the killer. [...]

Bingo ! The writing has been on the wall for nearly a decade.
I don't care about fuel consumption that much, but an S209 has about the same fuel consumption as a 4600+ lbs Hellcat Charger or Challenger on 305 tires at all 4 corners: it's not a good look.
But, above it all, drivetrain losses in the STI drivetrain are horrendous and Subaru can't build an engine that will compensate for these losses.
And, nobody said Subaru had to decouple the rear; they could have worked on something to decouple the front and turn the STI into a rear biased platform with some assist from the front.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

But also too, **** lithium and its toxicity after use. Solid State Batteries will ruin the market for everyone else using anything lithium.

solid state batteries still use lithium.

[mcarb002]

non ICE next gen has been speculated for some time now.

in this article from 2017, the UK marketing director said that the new global platform was built to accommodate electric/hybrid and in that same breath, he said that that was the way the STI was headed. Of course that could be so vaguely interpreted, he could've meant headed 20 years from then or the next gen. Maybe that's where derphawk got his ideas from. But it's clear that Subaru has been exploring hybrid/ev and it's also clear that things move slow.

Only now do they have a complete car with new technologies and it's powered thanks to Yamaha. Only now is it starting to be tested and we'll see how it does at the Nurburgring in 2023 and how long it takes Subaru to translate that into a car and even what type of car it will be. Will it be another rally inspired sedan/hatch or will it be some NSX Subaru halo car?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/subaru...h-hybrid-power

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

It seems the only way for a performance AWD car to meet the new regulations is for it to decouple an axle. Having a center differential seems to be the killer.

Even Audi is switching their longitudinal cars to a new Ultra AWD, which is not your old school Torsen center, instead it literally decouples the rear axle from the system. It's basically Haldex for longitudinal cars.

I don't even see that they would need to decouple the center diff. Subaru could keep the whole full time symmetrical AWD schtick, and add a mild hybrid for a quick 10% bump in economy (when driven easy), which may not be enough to catch up to the efficiency of a single set of drive wheels, but it's a very quick/easy step.

I'm truthfully shocked that they didn't toss a mild hybrid on the updated twins.

[SubaDuba420]

Originally Posted by cbk57

You don:t have to abandon Subaru if you love the STI, there are plenty of cars out there that can be rebuilt or reconditioned. Prices may go up, but for some time it will be cheaper to build or rebuild a Subaru than go buy an M3 as long as you don:t go stupid with your build. Current generation STIs will be around. They will also hold value with the not having a new one replace it.

OH my, you have no idea what you've done, you asked a question you DO NOT want the answer to. prepare yourself for a

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by samagon

I'm truthfully shocked that they didn't toss a mild hybrid on the updated twins.

I'm not, and I'm awfully glad they didn't. Hard to see how that could possibly make them better overall cars.

Same can be said for any reasonably priced performance car, I think. Probably why they're mostly non-existent.

[dwf137]

they could have stuck the eTwinster on there... Definitely would have raised the price of the car to stupid levels though.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I'm not, and I'm awfully glad they didn't. Hard to see how that could possibly make them better overall cars.

Same can be said for any reasonably priced performance car, I think. Probably why they're mostly non-existent.

do a quick search of mild hybrid.

48v hybrid system that's small, basically replaces the alternator and adds a tiny battery pack that aids with acceleration and the battery charges on deceleration. 20lb/ft of torque which eases the demand on the motor during normal accel, and gives you 20lb/ft during hard accel.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by samagon

do a quick search of mild hybrid.

48v hybrid system that's small, basically replaces the alternator and adds a tiny battery pack that aids with acceleration and the battery charges on deceleration. 20lb/ft of torque which eases the demand on the motor during normal accel, and gives you 20lb/ft during hard accel.

They do next to nothing. Plus you have the weight penalty of their battery pack.

I had the Crosstrek Mild Hybrid and the PHEV.

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by dwf137

solid state batteries still use lithium.

Thats what im saying, they'll ruin the market because as soon as they introduce them, prices for cars will go up as well, all the while not reducing dependency on lithium. Its a trade off though, the design of the battery has increased range and longevity, along with quicker charge times. It would make sense to introduce them now when people rely on gas vehicles so much to go long distances. But everyone wants to make their dime, so I digress

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

non ICE next gen has been speculated for some time now.

in this article from 2017, the UK marketing director said that the new global platform was built to accommodate electric/hybrid and in that same breath, he said that that was the way the STI was headed. Of course that could be so vaguely interpreted, he could've meant headed 20 years from then or the next gen. Maybe that's where derphawk got his ideas from. But it's clear that Subaru has been exploring hybrid/ev and it's also clear that things move slow.

Only now do they have a complete car with new technologies and it's powered thanks to Yamaha. Only now is it starting to be tested and we'll see how it does at the Nurburgring in 2023 and how long it takes Subaru to translate that into a car and even what type of car it will be. Will it be another rally inspired sedan/hatch or will it be some NSX Subaru halo car?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/subaru...h-hybrid-power

“We are definitely working on downsized turbo engines,” Hawken said. “With Euro 6c coming in next September, cars like the existing STi have to stop. By 2019 and 2020 manufacturers have to show a massive drop in CO2. The future is petrol, hybrid and electric.”

2022, Nissan drops a Z, VW a new Golf R, New Type R, New Integra, etc etc.

[4S-TURBO]

Subaru dropped the STI and owned them all.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

Subaru dropped the STI and owned them all.

they put their money where their mouth was mouth where CA emissions cocks are.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Thats what im saying, they'll ruin the market because as soon as they introduce them, prices for cars will go up as well, all the while not reducing dependency on lithium. Its a trade off though, the design of the battery has increased range and longevity, along with quicker charge times. It would make sense to introduce them now when people rely on gas vehicles so much to go long distances. But everyone wants to make their dime, so I digress

got it, i misunderstood your post.

Where we're getting our oil from these days isn't a whole lot better than lithium mining though... they need to work on recycling - most manufacturers of EV's are investing in trying to reuse/recycle the lithium in old batteries.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by samagon

they put their money where their mouth was mouth where CA emissions cocks are.

I wonder why this hasn't been mentioned yet...

Is Japan getting the STI next year?

There's zero mention of it in the SOA US Media Center news release and there was no corresponding press release on Subaru.jp's website. If it was in fact canceled because of our tighter regs and a short shelf life, what would stop Subaru from offering a car for the home market? Unless the home market was never getting one to begin with...nothing.

If they DO offer a car for the home market, it's bound to be announced soon. There's little reason to think Subaru would abandon all that development work because of us. There hasn't been an STI sold in Japan for over two years.

I am going to laugh if Japan gets it and it has an FA24 motor pumped up to 11. Laugh out loud like.

[chanomatik]

Then I'm moving to Japan.

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

They do next to nothing. Plus you have the weight penalty of their battery pack.

I had the Crosstrek Mild Hybrid and the PHEV.

The hybrid accelerated better(slight, but better) than it's non-hybrid version and got over 30mpg for city driving with an AWD. It wasn't meant to be "fast" or "fun" like a BRZ. I'd think a BRZ version would have similar increases in similar areas just up a couple/few notches. It would just cost more.....like the Crosstreks.....and people would not be interested enough.