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Old 12-13-2022, 02:43 PM   #726
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and the CTR is a hatch.

I'd define it more as a liftback, or sportback, but those are just derivatives of a hatchback.
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Old 12-13-2022, 04:08 PM   #727
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The CTR is a liftback sedan.

Hatchbacks have shorter rear overhangs than their sedan or wagon counterparts.
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Old 12-13-2022, 05:14 PM   #728
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Did Subaru ever announce they were even developing a new STI? I can't find anything of the sort, just speculation. No mules, no nothing.

From 2018 articles following up the Viziv STI concept.

Quote:
At this time, powertrain details on the STI remain unclear. But it's looking more and more likely that the STI will eventually be a hybrid. Speaking to AutoExpress recently, Subaru U.K. marketing director Chris Hawken said, "[Subaru's Global Platform] has been designed to take hybrid and electric," adding, "that is the way STI is going."
A potential hybrid STI could help the automaker meet stricter emissions requirements in the future.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/suba...oncept-debuts/

Quote:
It remains a mystery at this point the identity of the engine hiding underneath that bulging hood, but the production model based on the new Subaru Global Platform is expected to feature a hybrid powertrain once it will arrive at the end of the decade. David Dello Stritto, Subaruís sales and marketing manager in Europe, has clearly said the existing turbocharged 2.5-liter boxer engine has no future. Instead, rumors are suggesting a smaller turbo 2.0-liter boxer unit will drive the front wheels and will work together with an electric motor powering the rear axle to enable an AWD arrangement.

Letís just hope Subaru will shed some light about the oily (or is it electric?) bits at the Tokyo Auto Salon this weekend. To refresh your memory, attached below are images of the non-STI concept.
https://www.motor1.com/news/226690/s...e-sti-concept/

Subaru never did shed some light. Two years later this Forbes article contradicted the hybrid statements with "sources":

Quote:
But all good things must come to an end. Stricter fuel economy and emissions regulations demand a more efficient, cleaner engine and the all-new FA24 boxer turbo has been identified as the powerplant of choice. Subaru fans will immediately realize that the FA24 boxer turbo just happens to be the same engine that powers the current model Ascent SUV. In Ascent spec, the FA24 generates 260 hp.

In next-generation WRX STI spec however, that same FA24 engine will receive significant upgrades to achieve that smoking hot figure of 400 hp. According to our source, the reworked FA24 in STI spec will employ a reinforced crankshaft and pistons, optimized timing balance, fine-tuned valves and intake ports, boost pressure will be tweaked and brake capacity will be enhanced, among other modifications. And married to the brandís tried and proven symmetrical full-time 4WD system, expect nothing less than class-leading performance and handling.

In creating the new more powerful STI engine, Subaru engineerís apparently benchmarked the Mercedes-AMG 2.0-liter turbo ó as found in the A45 and CLA45 ó which pumps out 416 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. This engine is currently recognized as the most powerful 2.0-liter series-production four-cylinder engine on the planet.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...h=27460bb723f9

Who's their source? Rally4? Because there was nothing between that Forbes piece and the parroted articles from all the other rags and Subaru's announcement they are killing the STI. Exactly 2 years. Or 4 years from the Viziv Performance STI Concept reveal. Not a peep out of Subaru.

So it begs the question. Why did Subaru announce they were killing something they never announced was being developed?
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Old 12-13-2022, 06:28 PM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The CTR is a liftback sedan.

Hatchbacks have shorter rear overhangs than their sedan or wagon counterparts.


Honda calls it a hatchback, therefore, it is a hatchback.

and even by your made up rules of car classifications:

Honda Civic Sedan overall length: 184"
Honda Civic Hatchback overall length: 179"

https://www.cars.com/articles/how-th...chback-437433/

Quote:
The hatchback is also shorter than the sedan, with the rear overhang and overall length measuring 4.9 inches shorter than the sedan, according to Honda (179.1 inches for the hatchback versus 184 inches for the sedan).
sorry, it's a hatchback, by any definition of the word.
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Old 12-13-2022, 06:35 PM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post


Honda calls it a hatchback, therefore, it is a hatchback.

and even by your made up rules of car classifications:

Honda Civic Sedan overall length: 184"
Honda Civic Hatchback overall length: 179"

https://www.cars.com/articles/how-th...chback-437433/



sorry, it's a hatchback, by any definition of the word.
Itís a fastback to me. Just like my first car, Acura RSX. A hatch has a more upright rear door for utility.
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Old 12-13-2022, 06:53 PM   #731
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The CTR is as much a hatchback as this was a hatchback:




It's a liftback. I don't care what Honda says.
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Old 12-13-2022, 07:06 PM   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post


Honda calls it a hatchback, therefore, it is a hatchback.
No company gets to just make up classifications on a whim. It takes two seconds to google "liftback" to learn that Honda is wrong.

They can call it a dingleberry for all they want, that still doesn't change what it is.

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Old 12-14-2022, 12:13 AM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Did Subaru ever announce they were even developing a new STI? I can't find anything of the sort, just speculation. No mules, no nothing.

From 2018 articles following up the Viziv STI concept.


https://www.motortrend.com/news/suba...oncept-debuts/


https://www.motor1.com/news/226690/s...e-sti-concept/

Subaru never did shed some light. Two years later this Forbes article contradicted the hybrid statements with "sources":


https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...h=27460bb723f9

Who's their source? Rally4? Because there was nothing between that Forbes piece and the parroted articles from all the other rags and Subaru's announcement they are killing the STI. Exactly 2 years. Or 4 years from the Viziv Performance STI Concept reveal. Not a peep out of Subaru.

So it begs the question. Why did Subaru announce they were killing something they never announced was being developed?

Have they ever "announced" such a thing? We usually "know" when we see spy shots....which I think we were close to seeing before the killing. The only thing I can remember the STI being mentioned was an article quoting a SBR exec saying they were working on an auto for the STI. I think that was an Australian article. But, they did have one coming.
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Old 12-14-2022, 01:45 AM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Have they ever "announced" such a thing? We usually "know" when we see spy shots....which I think we were close to seeing before the killing. The only thing I can remember the STI being mentioned was an article quoting a SBR exec saying they were working on an auto for the STI. I think that was an Australian article. But, they did have one coming.
Until I see a prototype, I don't believe there was ever a car. The STI died with the EJ.
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Old 12-14-2022, 02:29 AM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Until I see a prototype, I don't believe there was ever a car. The STI died with the EJ.
Is there a way to upload screen shots here?

Edit Nevermind. Not worth it to impress a bunch of random people. Believe my word, the car was built and production ready. Iím sure one or two is still
Intact in Japan

Last edited by rallly 4; 12-14-2022 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 12-14-2022, 04:04 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post

It's a liftback. I don't care what Honda says.
I 100% agree with you. Just remember that some people worship at the altar of OEMís and believe whatever they say.
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Old 12-14-2022, 04:12 AM   #737
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"I'll just show it to you"...

...


"No I won't"

Nice trolling

Last edited by JRodrigues; 12-14-2022 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 12-14-2022, 08:11 AM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Is there a way to upload screen shots here?

Edit Nevermind. Not worth it to impress a bunch of random people. Believe my word, the car was built and production ready. Iím sure one or two is still
Intact in Japan
Imma show you proof hold upÖ

You know what, just trust me bro!
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Old 12-14-2022, 09:24 AM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
The CTR is as much a hatchback as this was a hatchback:




It's a liftback. I don't care what Honda says.
Agreed, like the Model S. They are all fastback/liftbacks, not hatchbacks. A Golf is a hatchback, this is obvious. The 2000s CTR was a hatchback. The most recent was close enough to a hatch, but the new car is a sedan with a liftback.
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Old 12-14-2022, 10:31 AM   #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
No company gets to just make up classifications on a whim. It takes two seconds to google "liftback" to learn that Honda is wrong.

They can call it a dingleberry for all they want, that still doesn't change what it is.

yes, they do, and they do all the time.

it's completely silly to argue about. some random drawing on the internet does not trump Merriam Webster, Oxford English Dictionary, or even Dictionary.com, or Wikipedia.

so yeah, if you look at any dictionary in the world, the definition never includes anything about the length of overhang, or any other characteristics like that. it's simply an extra opening into the cabin, or a rear window that opens with the rear deck lid.

I'll grant you that there are characteristics that USUALLY comprise a hatchback, and one of those will be overhang, but overhang vs a sedan counterpart is absolutely not required to define a hatchback.

and absolutely, a liftback is a type of hatchback. a fastback does not mean that the car is a hatchback (see 1960s Mustang fastback), but a fastback may be a liftback, and thus a hatchback.

I'm only trying to give you knowledge so you won't look silly at car meets. most people will be polite and nod when you try to use some silly rules to overcomplicate the terms a car company uses to define their vehicles, but rest assured, as soon as you turn around a knowledgeable car person will laugh at you.

but by all means, you do you boo.

Last edited by samagon; 12-14-2022 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 12-14-2022, 10:41 AM   #741
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I remember seeing articles like this that i guess circulated in Japan, showing the "Sti" but this is all ive found. Other than these "renders" Subaru maintained "secrecy" pretty well I guess.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WRX/comment...veryone_think/

https://www.driftmerch.com/auto-news...p-and-a-manual

We've also seen Subaru just throw together Frankenstein test mules and more or less "Let them be leaked" like this one right here,
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...t-sports-coupe

But there was never a "seen" STI test mule driving around. The WRX was 100% leaked with the optical camo. Leads me to believe the Sti was cut short way earlier than people think.

Also just reading this article back in 2018: ***12288;"Furthermore, he said that he would use the SGP (Subaru Global Platform), which will be used in Subaru vehicles to be released in the future, as a weapon to create a car that would be on par with the world's top-class sports models. He said that the SUBARU VIZIV PERFORMANCE STI CONCEPT unveiled this time is a special model that shows his determination."
https://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...n/1100980.html

-To me, the words that stick out is "On Par with the Worlds Top-Class Sports Models." Most top class Models are EV's or Hybrids. Hell, the Acura NSX, had like two separate Electric Motors in it. I think President Yoshio Hirakawa wants a Acura NSX "Like" STI, and the mf will make it happen I bet

Last edited by Russ_G93; 12-14-2022 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 12-14-2022, 10:41 AM   #742
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What did the fish say when it ran into the double-post cement wall?
"Dam"
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Old 12-14-2022, 11:22 AM   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
yes, they do, and they do all the time.

it's completely silly to argue about. some random drawing on the internet does not trump Merriam Webster, Oxford English Dictionary, or even Dictionary.com, or Wikipedia.

so yeah, if you look at any dictionary in the world, the definition never includes anything about the length of overhang, or any other characteristics like that. it's simply an extra opening into the cabin, or a rear window that opens with the rear deck lid.

I'll grant you that there are characteristics that USUALLY comprise a hatchback, and one of those will be overhang, but overhang vs a sedan counterpart is absolutely not required to define a hatchback.

and absolutely, a liftback is a type of hatchback. a fastback does not mean that the car is a hatchback (see 1960s Mustang fastback), but a fastback may be a liftback, and thus a hatchback.

I'm only trying to give you knowledge so you won't look silly at car meets. most people will be polite and nod when you try to use some silly rules to overcomplicate the terms a car company uses to define their vehicles, but rest assured, as soon as you turn around a knowledgeable car person will laugh at you.

but by all means, you do you boo.
I think you are confusing Lift Gates/Tail Gates, IE the rear opening, with the term Hatchback which is a car shape.

Lots of vehicles can have Lift Gates (SUVs, Crossovers, Coupes, Sedans, Harchbacks, etc.) for their trunk openings, but not all of them are hatchbacks. Hatchbacks are the specific car shape.



This has been generally agreed upon forever despite Honda. Just like how Audi, BMW and Mercades call their sedans with lift gates "Coupes" or their swoopy SUVs "Coupes", what the manufacturer chooses to call the product doesn't mean that everyone else agrees upon it.
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Old 12-14-2022, 11:26 AM   #744
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What I always found interesting was the VB WRX was seen benchmark testing against a Model 3. The VB, as is, doesn't touch a Model 3 in performance. So... is more coming, or was that secretly an STI (the brake calipers were the WRX, not Brembo)?

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Old 12-14-2022, 11:58 AM   #745
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I feel like the original tune before CAFE and EPA standards did allow the VB to touch a dual motor tesla. I only say this because the previous iteration of the WRX S4 (2020) had like 296 hp, 295 ftlbs from the 2.0liter.

But you drive the version we have and it literally feels like a last minute reflash. Mainly because the -8.11 knock on stock tune ive seen that other owners are getting, when I feel like it should be in the -4s, -3s.
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Old 12-14-2022, 11:58 AM   #746
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What do double-post Vampires use to sail the Red Sea? Blood Vessels.
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Old 12-14-2022, 12:26 PM   #747
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
But you drive the version we have and it literally feels like a last minute reflash. Mainly because the -8.11 knock on stock tune ive seen that other owners are getting, when I feel like it should be in the -4s, -3s.
I thought all the reviewers were like "best stock tune ever"?
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Old 12-14-2022, 12:27 PM   #748
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What do double-post Vampires use to sail the Red Sea? Blood Vessels.
ugh, and seagulls don't fly over bays because then they'd be baygulls.
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Old 12-14-2022, 01:58 PM   #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
I feel like the original tune before CAFE and EPA standards did allow the VB to touch a dual motor tesla. I only say this because the previous iteration of the WRX S4 (2020) had like 296 hp, 295 ftlbs from the 2.0liter.

But you drive the version we have and it literally feels like a last minute reflash. Mainly because the -8.11 knock on stock tune ive seen that other owners are getting, when I feel like it should be in the -4s, -3s.
Model 3 LR AWD does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, before the paid-for boost. No stock WRX has ever touched that number. VB is about 2 seconds slower.
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Old 12-14-2022, 02:02 PM   #750
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Model 3 LR AWD does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, before the paid-for boost. No stock WRX has ever touched that number. VB is about 2 seconds slower.
05-06 the sti was close at about 4.3 or 4.4 from some reviews
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