Corrola GR...car and driver measured performance

[Pre]

Originally Posted by 855T

You guys keep saying "stressed" and "maxed," yet tuners are pushing 37 psi into the thing and getting almost 500 horsepower on stock internals. It's not "stressed," it's not "maxed," it's a good-maybe-great motor from a manufacturer that's decided to make the kind of cars Subaru used to make. It is possible, and worth considering, that a company with 10x the revenue of another might be able to make better engines, both per-liter of displacement and overall.

What's funny is that competition breeds innovation. Competition breeds choice in the marketplace. It leads to better products, better pricing for consumers, and product diversity. On here though, the children are pissed something else is even produced and constantly try to tear it down. I mean it's priceless.

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[samagon]

yep, competition is a very good thing.

I'm kind of happy though that Subaru doesn't have a hatch WRX. I'd probably settle for it based on price and how easy it would be to find.

as it is though, I'm happy to wait a minute, or two.

[mcarb002]

As one of the fathers of modern western philosophy, the great Hegel said that every concept necessarily contains its own opposite, hidden away, and that this opposite must be extricated or deduced and revealed. This is the dialectic, and the notion of competition doesn’t escape this.

Yes, one can definitely rightly argue competition leads to innovation and increase of choices as companies try to outdo each other, but the flip side which is rarely thought and spoken about is how long is this sustainable for without ramifications? What are the drawbacks?
Well, competition inevitably leads to monopolization and actually fewer choices as they ruthlessly gobble each other up. Hence, why mom and pop places don’t exist anymore. Now a days you go to Costco and walk out with a pallet of yogurt, a car, and a vacation to Cancun voila! In the not too distant future, at this rate, we’ll all be shopping from Walmart, Amazon, and Apple. Therefore, for lots and lots of companies market share is inevitably decreased and shrinks
customer base. This happened to Suzuki and Mitsubishi.

So, within the context of the topic, wasn’t it pretty much accepted fact around these parts that Toyota’s 20% stake at Subaru is why Subaru became so bland? (Big company little by little buying the smaller one and dictating direction). Plus, isn’t it also accepted fact around these parts that Subaru’s last compelling STI was the 2007? Evo wasn’t dead for another 8 years, so what happened to this supposed competition and Subaru’s VA offering? What about the Type R that went on sale for the first time in Subaru’s biggest market in 2017 plus the Focus RS in 2018 with a hatchback to fill the void left behind by the hatch STI? Subaru had 5 years to “feel the competition”? what happened? Well, this competition lead to the….. VB lol

So yeah, I dunno, what makes you guys think Subaru’s gonna all the sudden feel the pressures of competition from the GR by a company it’s formed a major alliance with and which we here believe is what’s dictated Subaru’s blandness over the years?

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

As one of the fathers of modern western philosophy, the great Hegel said that every concept necessarily contains its own opposite, hidden away, and that this opposite must be extricated or deduced and revealed. This is the dialectic, and the notion of competition doesn’t escape this.

Yes, one can definitely rightly argue competition leads to innovation and increase of choices as companies try to outdo each other, but the flip side which is rarely thought and spoken about is how long is this sustainable for without ramifications? What are the drawbacks?
Well, competition inevitably leads to monopolization and actually fewer choices as they ruthlessly gobble each other up. Hence, why mom and pop places don’t exist anymore. Now a days you go to Costco and walk out with a pallet of yogurt, a car, and a vacation to Cancun voila! In the not too distant future, at this rate, we’ll all be shopping from Walmart, Amazon, and Apple. Therefore, for lots and lots of companies market share is inevitably decreased and shrinks
customer base. This happened to Suzuki and Mitsubishi.

So, within the context of the topic, wasn’t it pretty much accepted fact around these parts that Toyota’s 20% stake at Subaru is why Subaru became so bland? (Big company little by little buying the smaller one and dictating direction). Plus, isn’t it also accepted fact around these parts that Subaru’s last compelling STI was the 2007? Evo wasn’t dead for another 8 years, so what happened to this supposed competition and Subaru’s VA offering? What about the Type R that went on sale for the first time in Subaru’s biggest market in 2017 plus the Focus RS in 2018 with a hatchback to fill the void left behind by the hatch STI? Subaru had 5 years to “feel the competition”? what happened? Well, this competition lead to the….. VB lol

So yeah, I dunno, what makes you guys think Subaru’s gonna all the sudden feel the pressures of competition from the GR by a company it’s formed a major alliance with and which we here believe is what’s dictated Subaru’s blandness over the years?

I'd have to disagree that Toyota had anything to do with the "blandness" as you put it. I'd blame Subaru's CORE demographic. The "enthusiasts" weren't buying the "fun" options enough, and the long standing customers that buy a car that can take them and their family where they want came in and gobbled up the "right sized" cars. And then gained a crap more.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I'd have to disagree that Toyota had anything to do with the "blandness" as you put it. I'd blame Subaru's CORE demographic. The "enthusiasts" weren't buying the "fun" options enough, and the long standing customers that buy a car that can take them and their family where they want came in and gobbled up the "right sized" cars. And then gained a crap more.

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You're either right, partially correct, or completely wrong. Ultimately we will never know as there's no definitive proof to definitely confirm or deny.


I'm merely going off of what seems to be the major sentiment on these boards. Surely then this means that a sizeable amount of people find it at least plausible that Toyota has some influence. Indeed, when you own 20% of Subaru you are not just sitting around checking your Robin Hood app to see how Subaru stocks are doing...... you either have someone on the board of directors or some partnership agreement to direct future production. The first partnership between the 2 companies was a sports car, so it could be that they have some agreement on what direction both companies want to take on this segment?
Again, who knows for sure 100%, but Toyota influence on Subaru is most certainly within the realm of possibility.