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Old 01-17-2022, 07:09 PM   #4826
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I was using the "bad" example in a comparison. Their choices back then came just before the financial crisis and the outcome was really unavoidable. Bad timing. They had to scramble to work the problems. Their two biggest good decisions were to finally cater to the American market, and, I'll be ready for the comments after this.....to put Doll in the top spot.





And Subaru isn't out of the woods yet now, either. If something else were to happen to chip availability.........
But just before the financial crisis looked like this...And the cheap and easy money existed in automotive just like it did in housing. Subaru was sliding like the domestics in a booming automotive market. The only other Japanese or Korean makes that struggled during this time exited the market.... Suzuki and Isuzu. Even Mitsubishi grew 04, 05, 06...a lot.

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Old 01-17-2022, 07:14 PM   #4827
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The enthusiast stuff sold way worse than the bread and butter stuff.
I will give you that. Only because finding Limited Legacy GTs or a Forester XT or a WRX past 2006 was impossible in California and Oregon. They were just not sitting on lots out here. Well, unless they were white on tan.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:18 PM   #4828
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So we all agree then?

Enthusiasts wanting something sporty like the WRX or LGT caused Subaru to file Chapter 11, way back before people can remember. Before the internet even!. That's why no one really remembers. It was long ago man!
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:23 PM   #4829
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But we have learned that Subaru made an advertisement in the 90's comparing a Legacy GT to a 911 Carrera 4!
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:26 PM   #4830
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I thought the WRX had a Porsche engine? Like H-4 and so on
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:27 PM   #4831
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I thought the WRX had a Porsche engine? Like H-4 and so
And so indeed.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:35 PM   #4832
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If Subaru wanted to compete with Porsche again it would take the revival of the SVX. They could totally do it if they wanted. Hybrid/electric/gas doesnt matter, though a variation of a turbo charged EG33 would be sweet.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:37 PM   #4833
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I will give you that. Only because finding Limited Legacy GTs or a Forester XT or a WRX past 2006 was impossible in California and Oregon. They were just not sitting on lots out here. Well, unless they were white on tan.
It's not a case of chicken and the egg. Early in the cycle, that stuff was being pushed. When it wasn't working, it backed up on dealer lots. Dealers will only bend so much before they start not accepting vehicles that don't sell. FHI/Sub Corp is production driven and they make their money on the sale of the cars to SOA (who then sells the cars to the dealers). FHI/Sub Corp and SOA WANT to sell the pricier stuff as there's more profit in it for them. The dealers would love it to if the demand is there because they also make more money. When the pipes back up each stage eventually gets the message.

Dealers push back on accepting those vehicles in allocations because they pay interest on old cars and they have to give away cars that customers aren't coming in on. That comes out of profit if there is any or just becomes a full on loss.

SOA pushes back on ordering those vehicles from SBR. Slow selling cars require higher incentives to customers and to dealers. More advertising is necessary to maintain throughput. It also makes life difficult trying to get dealers to accept them in the first place.

SBR eventually changes the mix of what they produce because they need to sell volume to their distributors to pay its fixed cost based business.

So by the time you were in the market, the supply chain had already been adjusted because the market had spoken.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:56 PM   #4834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
But just before the financial crisis looked like this...And the cheap and easy money existed in automotive just like it did in housing. Subaru was sliding like the domestics in a booming automotive market. The only other Japanese or Korean makes that struggled during this time exited the market.... Suzuki and Isuzu. Even Mitsubishi grew 04, 05, 06...a lot.


I'd say that was primarily because they didn't cater to us. Namely in size. I lost count of how many customers opted away from Subaru because the Camry, Accord, or whatever had gotten bigger AND their MPG had increased much higher than Subaru's 20/26. Then look at the "enthusiast years" you were wanting to use. That graph kicks up until the financial crisis. Kinda countering what you were saying. And of course the pricier(cost and fuel) cars aren't going to sell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
It's not a case of chicken and the egg. Early in the cycle, that stuff was being pushed. When it wasn't working, it backed up on dealer lots. Dealers will only bend so much before they start not accepting vehicles that don't sell. FHI/Sub Corp is production driven and they make their money on the sale of the cars to SOA (who then sells the cars to the dealers). FHI/Sub Corp and SOA WANT to sell the pricier stuff as there's more profit in it for them. The dealers would love it to if the demand is there because they also make more money. When the pipes back up each stage eventually gets the message.

Dealers push back on accepting those vehicles in allocations because they pay interest on old cars and they have to give away cars that customers aren't coming in on. That comes out of profit if there is any or just becomes a full on loss.

SOA pushes back on ordering those vehicles from SBR. Slow selling cars require higher incentives to customers and to dealers. More advertising is necessary to maintain throughput. It also makes life difficult trying to get dealers to accept them in the first place.

SBR eventually changes the mix of what they produce because they need to sell volume to their distributors to pay its fixed cost based business.

So by the time you were in the market, the supply chain had already been adjusted because the market had spoken.

Retailers don't always have a choice in accepting or denying allocation. It's certainly not as much as you're alluding to. They do complain to their NDAB and they convince(try to anyway) to get SOA to adjust. Sales on their own are obviously monitored and adjustments come based on that.




And you can use "SBR" so you don't have to type soo much. Pretty sure everyone here knows FHI isn't used anymore.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:07 PM   #4835
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I'd say that was primarily because they didn't cater to us. Namely in size. I lost count of how many customers opted away from Subaru because the Camry, Accord, or whatever had gotten bigger AND their MPG had increased much higher than Subaru's 20/26. Then look at the "enthusiast years" you were wanting to use. That graph kicks up until the financial crisis. Kinda countering what you were saying. And of course the pricier(cost and fuel) cars aren't going to sell.





Retailers don't always have a choice in accepting or denying allocation. It's certainly not as much as you're alluding to. They do complain to their NDAB and they convince(try to anyway) to get SOA to adjust. Sales on their own are obviously monitored and adjustments come based on that.




And you can use "SBR" so you don't have to type soo much. Pretty sure everyone here knows FHI isn't used anymore.
That graph is the stock market. It counters what you were saying. Subaru trended down while that graph trended up, Asian brands trended up, and SAAR was flat at its ceiling of 17 million.

You're telling me in the mid 2000's dealers weren't actively turning down cars in droves? Don't lie to me Justy. And corrections to production take time. We're talking 2-3 years year. That's definitely enough time to course correct. And they did...as talked about in the product mix call outs in the financial documents.

Also, let's pour one out for the LGT. It got bigger and followed the formula Subaru set out for the rest of the lineup while outperforming the outgoing car in every metric except 0-60. Enthusiasts no want. Too big and not enough luxury. RIP
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:13 PM   #4836
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I thought we moved on.

C'mon man.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:50 PM   #4837
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All I know is those alteza tail lights were the best Subaru ever made.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:05 PM   #4838
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Lava > Attenza
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:22 PM   #4839
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I'm still struggling to understand how this conversation is relevant to the 2022 WRX.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:57 PM   #4840
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I'm still struggling to understand how this conversation is relevant to the 2022 WRX.
Stupid conversation. Stupid car.

Got it?
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:05 PM   #4841
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This is what happens when we don't have any reviews on the WRX GT with the CVT SPT.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:10 PM   #4842
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I thought it was that time again to shame the old Subaru guys for owning Subaru's that were complete failures. Always happy to go through the motions.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:16 PM   #4843
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Stupid conversation. Stupid car.

Got it?

Hard to comprehend that when it’s the best WRX yet. You’re saying all previous WRX’s are even more stupid? Hmm, alright.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:17 PM   #4844
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I thought it was that time again to shame the old Subaru guys for owning Subaru's that were complete failures. Always happy to go through the motions.


I had two. Self loathing?
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:19 PM   #4845
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
That graph is the stock market. It counters what you were saying. Subaru trended down while that graph trended up, Asian brands trended up, and SAAR was flat at its ceiling of 17 million.

You're telling me in the mid 2000's dealers weren't actively turning down cars in droves? Don't lie to me Justy. And corrections to production take time. We're talking 2-3 years year. That's definitely enough time to course correct. And they did...as talked about in the product mix call outs in the financial documents.

Also, let's pour one out for the LGT. It got bigger and followed the formula Subaru set out for the rest of the lineup while outperforming the outgoing car in every metric except 0-60. Enthusiasts no want. Too big and not enough luxury. RIP



Wait wait wha? What "corrections to production" are you talking about? So, you're saying that if the Forester Limited starts selling better; but, they are concentrating production on premiums.....or the Crosstrek, it's going to take them 2-3 MODEL years to adjust? Please elaborate, cause that just doesn't make sense. If you meant months, then yeah. And, no, retailers can't turn down cars in "droves" and even if they could, they wouldn't likely do it since it affects their allocations. Trust me, if they could, we'd have denied every MT that wasn't WRX/STI. The most control a retailer has on it's allocation.......when things are normal......is they can change colors/trims on certain cars allocated to them. Not even all of them. And only the cars from SIA. Cars from Gunma? You get whatever shows up in the allocation. Hopefully they paid enough attention to what you have been selling and allocate appropriately.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:19 PM   #4846
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Hard to comprehend that when it’s the best WRX yet. You’re saying all previous WRX’s are even more stupid? Hmm, alright.


Never mind him. This has been his schtick since he first joined.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:20 PM   #4847
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Never mind him. This has been his schtick since he first joined.

Lmao.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:29 PM   #4848
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I had two. Self loathing?
No, just falling on the bomb. Dunno why the bomb. But always the bomb.
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Old 01-17-2022, 11:34 PM   #4849
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Wait wait wha? What "corrections to production" are you talking about? So, you're saying that if the Forester Limited starts selling better; but, they are concentrating production on premiums.....or the Crosstrek, it's going to take them 2-3 MODEL years to adjust? Please elaborate, cause that just doesn't make sense. If you meant months, then yeah. And, no, retailers can't turn down cars in "droves" and even if they could, they wouldn't likely do it since it affects their allocations. Trust me, if they could, we'd have denied every MT that wasn't WRX/STI. The most control a retailer has on it's allocation.......when things are normal......is they can change colors/trims on certain cars allocated to them. Not even all of them. And only the cars from SIA. Cars from Gunma? You get whatever shows up in the allocation. Hopefully they paid enough attention to what you have been selling and allocate appropriately.
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that by the time 4sturbo was in the market 2-3 year later, the scarcity of turbos was a result of the production corrections that happened up until that point.

And yes, retailers did turn down allocations in droves in the mid 2000's. There was far more supply than demand at the time which is completely different to the situation dealers have been in since 2010 or so with Subaru's production driven turn and earn system. The ability to change vehicles didn't even exist in the mid 2000s. The environment in Subaru now is NOTHING like it was at that time.
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Old 01-17-2022, 11:59 PM   #4850
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'05 MY was a crazy rollout of Legacy and Outback models. It's no wonder dealers didn't want any of them. It was hard for salesmen and managers to keep the damn things straight let alone the customers who had zero chance knowing what was what.

What was Subaru thinking? Crazy times.
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