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01-16-2019, 04:59 PM | #1 |
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Ford confirms all-electric F-Series pickup truck coming
Ford might not be doomed after all. The American automaker has now finally announced that it is going to launch an all-electric version of its most important vehicle program: the F-Series pickup trucks. Last year, Ford announced plans to "bring 16 battery-electric vehicles to market by 2022" - starting with an all-electric CUV with 300 miles of range. But the automaker still remained more focused on hybrids than all-electric vehicles. Its more important vehicle program, the F150 pickup truck, was only supposed to get a hybrid powertrain by 2020, but the landscape has since changed a lot. Rivian has unveiled what could be a really competitive all-electric pickup truck and Elon Musk has been heavily hyping an upcoming Tesla all-electric pickup. It made Ford's hybrid pickup plan a little weak, but now the company is planning to have its own all-electric F-Series truck. Ford CEO Jim Hackett made the announcement at the Deutsche Bank Global Auto Industry Conference today: "We are going to electrifying the F-Series with battery electric and hybrid and we are doing the same for Transit. We launched a PHEV version of Transit and that will be on a journey of electrifying Transit globally." It sounds like the previously announced hybrid version of the F150 is still planned for production, but it will be followed by an all-electric version of at least one pickup truck in the F-Series. He didn't confirm a timeline nor which pickup truck in the F-Series - though the F150 is a likely option. It's one of many EV announcements from Ford over the last week. Ford and VW announced that they are considering partnering on electric vehicles. Lincoln, the American automaker's premium brand, also announced that it is making an electric car based on Ford's Mustang-inspired EV. The Mustang-inspired EV is supposed to be Ford's first all-electric vehicle built to be electric from the ground up and it is due to launch next year. https://electrek.co/2019/01/16/ford-...-pickup-truck/
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01-16-2019, 05:29 PM | #2 | |
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A Lincoln based off a Mustang? You have my attention. What it be? |
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01-16-2019, 10:21 PM | #3 |
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01-17-2019, 09:03 AM | #4 |
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This is what I don't get. If Tesla has a Gigafactory, and they still struggle to get low cost, high KW batteries, is Ford or VW or whoever really going to be able to scale up production of high output batteries any time soon to get a competitive product out? I would think you'd need at least a 100 Kwh battery for a light duty F150 due to the weight and towing demands... or you make a very compromised product.
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01-17-2019, 10:05 AM | #5 | |
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There are economies of scale at play here for the big boys, not to mention the massive amount of profit built into the F-series sticker price. Take a larger look at Fords portfolio, they plan to "electrify all the things", and they sell 2.6 mil vehicles per year. |
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01-17-2019, 10:28 AM | #6 |
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A mild hybrid version of the F series like the Ram eTorque makes sense. But for a 200 mile full electric F150 with some basic towing capacity, are they going to build a 50,000 or 100,000 80 KWh or 100 kwH batteries? Where is the plant to build that? Maybe LG and Panasonic (the main battery suppliers) are investing in something big already, totally separate from the Gigafactory?
Either their supplier base builds a dedicated factory (or enlarges existing capacity) for F150 full battery electric trucks (which I think they'd have to start building, like, now), or it's going to be a niche product that sells like 10,000 units a year and costs $70k or more. In that case, so much for transforming their business... it's still an ICE-centric business model with buzzwords and marketing to keep wall street happy. They still make their money on big pickup trucks that are mostly propelled by internal combustion engines. Unless they can do some magic by putting together like 4 batteries intended for some VW or an Escape electric? The numbers just don't make sense at this point. Tesla has most of the market share, consumer demand, manufacturing capacity, and experience with large capacity batteries. |
01-17-2019, 11:18 AM | #7 |
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I can't wait to see the deals you can get on one of those...
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01-17-2019, 11:26 AM | #8 | |
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They need a huge amount of batteries to get the cost down, which takes a huge investment. But they're not going to spend it without knowing the demand is there. But without good prices from scale, the demand won't be there Tesla took a huge gamble with the gigafactory, and it appears to be paying off. One can also do the math on some of the investments that are announced in new battery production. "2 billion pledged for batteries!" Ok, assuming $100/kwh () and 65khw packs, that's good for 300k cars. A good start, but nowhere near what they need. |
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01-18-2019, 08:29 AM | #9 |
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Too much smoke and mirrors (and hype) on this. Tesla is struggling with costs, and they have more scale than anybody and they still can't make a nominally $35k model 3. Obviously they don't have nearly as much experience with manufacturing.
And $35k doesn't sound too bad, but with taxes etc then you remember that's a $600-$700 car payment for most people who can't put a ton of money down, or unsustainable 7 year loans. So if an electric F150 comes out and costs as much as a King Ranch or whatever they call it, what's the market for that? We're still 10 years away from this full-EV future. |
01-18-2019, 08:33 AM | #10 |
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Give it a few years, the Chinese will ramp up cheap battery production and costs will come down. Just not there yet.
https://qz.com/1317745/here-are-all-...-are-building/ |
01-18-2019, 10:47 AM | #11 |
Papi Chulo
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Oh gee, it's not like I said this would happen as they kill off low margin barely profitable passenger cars. This is a smart move and I bet we end up seeing an explorer, edge, escape etc be offered in EV trim. I'd be willing to bet they source the batteries from Panasonic, LG or someone similar.
People need to stop comparing Ford, Hyundai, Chevy etc to Tesla in the profitability department. Traditional autos generate rather low profit margins due to competition. Soon Tesla is going to realize that and be forced to drop pants on pricing, have small profit margins all while trying to figure out how to scale. Ford already has most of the infrastructure to build these, its mostly just retrofitting a truck with EV components and not designing a whole new vehicle from ground up. Ford, you have my attention. |
01-18-2019, 05:03 PM | #12 | |
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God, I hate trucks... |
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01-18-2019, 06:00 PM | #13 | |
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They'll be used in town, but as trucks. |
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01-18-2019, 06:09 PM | #14 | |
Papi Chulo
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01-18-2019, 06:29 PM | #15 |
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Just a fun fact...Ford f series business was worth 41 billion in 2017, bigger than coca-cola, Facebook and Nike...they average selling 2 trucks per minute...amazing.
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01-18-2019, 06:50 PM | #16 |
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Yeah and Ford averages about $10K in profit on every truck sold. This is why they are focusing on more trucks and SUVs. It's like printing money.
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01-18-2019, 09:37 PM | #17 | |
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All the better for them all to be EVs. |
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01-19-2019, 01:11 AM | #18 |
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01-19-2019, 06:06 PM | #19 |
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^^^ IIRC, the Mk VII - based on the Fairmont (Fox) chassis with the same spec V8 as the Mustang of the time - esp. in LSC trim. What with the current Mustang being so big and heavy a Lincoln Mk IX/Mk X derivative would seriously be in the 2 door land yacht category.
And let us hope Lincoln also does not repeat the same mistake of a re-badge job on the EV F150 in the future. Oh wait, Navigator EV.... |
01-20-2019, 02:33 PM | #20 |
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The MKVII shared a lot of parts with the Fox body but both it and the thunderbird had a unique chassis. Basically stretched and different mounting points.
Power train was identical thought. So build a MkX with the roadrunner. |
01-24-2019, 08:04 AM | #21 |
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So Toyota and Panasonic announced a joint venture for making batteries. Article says it will not be only for Toyota products. Could this manufacturing capacity directly or indirectly support a fully electric F series?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN1PG0MP |
01-24-2019, 09:20 AM | #22 | |
Papi Chulo
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I applaud Tesla for its gigafactory but I think in the not too distant future, 3rd party batteries are going to cost less than in house development. The companies securing contracts for ev batteries are going to explode in value. |
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01-24-2019, 09:34 AM | #23 |
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Gigafactory is a joint venture with Panasonic though.
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01-24-2019, 12:46 PM | #24 |
Papi Chulo
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01-26-2019, 10:08 PM | #25 |
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I wonder how this electric F-series goes against Rivian.
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