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Old 04-21-2014, 09:31 AM   #1
KillerBMotorsport
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Default Product Feeler: A Different kind of turbo kit... SPOOLINATOR

Something we are working on and looking for feedback...

This product is great for those that have made incremental upgrades, don't want to spend the bigger bucks for a 'rotated' kit, but have outgrown the OEM turbo's power levels. Uncompromised mid-sized turbo performance in a lower cost package.

These results were obtained using a Garrett GTX3067-R on our shop 2012 STi. We are still undergoing testing, but so far results have been very good.







Two Dyno plots. First from Prime Motorsing's Mustang Dyno, where a strong stage II STi reads ~275whp, and a second street pull using virtual dyno. Based on experience, the car feels like the mustang numbers are 25whp low and the virtual numbers are 25hp too high. It feels like a 355+whp car, but probably not more than 375whp. What is really astonishing is the responsiveness at low RPM. One observation that was made is intake temps were climbing in the upper RPMs likely due to heat soak of the OEM intercooler. Car will be put back on the dyno after the ETS TMIC shows up.





Please feel free to post your questions, comments or concerns.

Thanks!
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Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 04-21-2014 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:07 AM   #2
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Someone wanted installed pics.

here ya go. Not much to see here folks, it's stock I swear!






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Old 04-22-2014, 09:27 AM   #3
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It would be nice to be able to test both the .82 and .63 AR housings on my car. I'm ordering the .82 housing but I'm intrigued by the smaller .63 housing seeing the power and spool I got out of the 8cm SL housing on my build.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:35 AM   #4
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this is great! wish this was available years ago hahah
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
It would be nice to be able to test both the .82 and .63 AR housings on my car. I'm ordering the .82 housing but I'm intrigued by the smaller .63 housing seeing the power and spool I got out of the 8cm SL housing on my build.
We've got comparative data on both housings with the GTX3071. The smaller housing gained ~300 RPMs in spool and better transient response. Both carried power to stock redline (7,000RPMs) very well. The 0.82 housing carried it to 7,500RPMs and made ~25 more whp. Personally, driving everyday in traffic the small housing was more enjoyable because of its responsiveness, even at the lower power. The larger housing you just need to ring it out more to get to the meat of the power curve. For a road coarse or number chaser the mid-sized housing makes more power and more sense IMO, but it's very subjective.

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this is great! wish this was available years ago hahah

Thanks and sorry
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:36 AM   #6
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No better than running a stock location upgrade IMO. You still have heat soak issues if you want to keep the responsiveness of a tmic, and going FMIC will likely put you into rotated territory price wise. Not to mention it still is going to leave the car a PITA to wrench on.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:20 AM   #7
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No better than running a stock location upgrade IMO. You still have heat soak issues if you want to keep the responsiveness of a tmic, and going FMIC will likely put you into rotated territory price wise. Not to mention it still is going to leave the car a PITA to wrench on.
I would agree if there were aftermarket OEM housings that performed well. They just don't match the power levels of the performance oriented turbine housings.

Which heat soak are you referring too? From sitting in traffic or from the I/C core's capabilities being exceeded?

From observations, the OEM I/C is just not cooling well as the power levels have increased and it's pulling timing as RPMs climb. A low performing core will do this regardless of its location, the OEM I/C does have lower cooling capacity vs a well designed aftermarket option. This is pretty well documented and we will be adding data points specific this application as well.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #8
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I like this idea. What is the price range you are looking at? For just the turbo would it be competitive with the blouch dom series? Would it come with a DP for an extra price, or would we have to source one?

Last edited by Brother EddieJ.; 04-22-2014 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:21 PM   #9
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very nice, and I was trying not to mod this car, then I have to see this lol.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:02 PM   #10
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Can you elaborate on this graph:




It doesn't display boost pressure.

It doesn't look like full boost at 2900 rpms from the dyno plots. Looks more like 3500 rpms from the plots.

Nice set-up though!
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:39 PM   #11
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I believe the graph shows 20-21 psi by 2800 all the way out the redline or the end of the pull.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I believe the graph shows 20-21 psi by 2800 all the way out the redline or the end of the pull.
Then why do the dyno pulls not reflect that? Not trying to say it is a bad product, on the contrary it looks very good, just a couple things don't add up.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:21 PM   #13
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This pull shows 20.5 -21 psi all the way to 57/5800 rpm, then stops.

If this thing can do 21 psi to red-line it would be making more power, and would not be a 46-47 lb/min turbo.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:39 PM   #14
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You're right, they stopped the pulls short of redline because they maxed out the oem TMIC. I personally don't think the 3067 is a. 47 lb. turbo. I know the compressor map says 47 lb. but with the 30r turbine wheel I would think it'll yield more power and be able to carry it out at higher rpms than the 2867 which is a 47 lb. turbo.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
We've got comparative data on both housings with the GTX3071. The smaller housing gained ~300 RPMs in spool and better transient response. Both carried power to stock redline (7,000RPMs) very well. The 0.82 housing carried it to 7,500RPMs and made ~25 more whp. Personally, driving everyday in traffic the small housing was more enjoyable because of its responsiveness, even at the lower power. The larger housing you just need to ring it out more to get to the meat of the power curve. For a road coarse or number chaser the mid-sized housing makes more power and more sense IMO, but it's very subjective.
No, I mean that I should test both housings on my build. I'm going to run the .82 housing first and if it performs as I'm sure it will I may not want to test the .63 housing. Let's get that kit shipped out to me soon

Last edited by manitou; 04-22-2014 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brother EddieJ. View Post
I like this idea. What is the price range you are looking at? For just the turbo would it be competitive with the blouch dom series? Would it come with a DP for an extra price, or would we have to source one?
It's going to be ~$1,728 MSRP. This includes adapter with hold down clamps, downpipe and all hardware necessary to install a GT/GTX/Tial turbocharger. We can look at other options that may include turbocharger and the Perrin inlet we used also. This is all up for debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by black06g85 View Post
very nice, and I was trying not to mod this car, then I have to see this lol.
I know, I have the same problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
Can you elaborate on this graph:




It doesn't display boost pressure.

It doesn't look like full boost at 2900 rpms from the dyno plots. Looks more like 3500 rpms from the plots.

Nice set-up though!
Target boost is 21psi. The onset of power always follows boost, they do not happen instantaneously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I believe the graph shows 20-21 psi by 2800 all the way out the redline or the end of the pull.
Yes to the end of the pull.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
This pull shows 20.5 -21 psi all the way to 57/5800 rpm, then stops.

If this thing can do 21 psi to red-line it would be making more power, and would not be a 46-47 lb/min turbo.

The heat soak was causing timing to be pulled up top quite a bit. According to Jr, it was still hitting target, but power was dropping due to the heat soak so pulls we stopped early. The street pull I tried to rev is out as much as a could, given the available conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
You're right, they stopped the pulls short of redline because they maxed out the oem TMIC. I personally don't think the 3067 is a. 47 lb. turbo. I know the compressor map says 47 lb. but with the 30r turbine wheel I would think it'll yield more power and be able to carry it out at higher rpms than the 2867 which is a 47 lb. turbo.
This is exactly what I was told by a Garrett engineer. Expect power levels closer to that of the 3071, not the 2867.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
No, I mean that I should test both housings on my build. I'm going to run the .82 housing first and if it performs as I'm sure it will I may not want to test the .63 housing. Let's get that kit shipped out to me soon
OK, I'm following you now
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:31 AM   #17
manitou
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Originally Posted by Brother EddieJ. View Post
I like this idea. What is the price range you are looking at? For just the turbo would it be competitive with the blouch dom series? Would it come with a DP for an extra price, or would we have to source one?
Did you mean compatible with the Dom series? This should work with any of the Garrett cartridge based Dom XTR turbos, 1.5, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 and 5.

Last edited by manitou; 04-24-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:57 PM   #18
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Did you mean compatible with the Dom series? This should work with any of the Garrett cartridge based Dom XTR turbos, 1.5, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 and 5.
Please excuse my turbo housing ignorance here, but would you need a specific TiAL housing depending on which turbo you have? Does the housing need to fit correctly with the size of the exhaust wheel?
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:54 PM   #19
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Please excuse my turbo housing ignorance here, but would you need a specific TiAL housing depending on which turbo you have? Does the housing need to fit correctly with the size of the exhaust wheel?
Yes, there are specific housings for each Garrett R series turbine CHRA. I believe Tial makes them for 28, 30, 35 and 42 series turbines. With our Dom 3.5 XTR's Blouch machines 2mm out all the way around the turbine bore on a 30R housing and then it can fit the 64mm 10 blade Garrett turbine wheel that only Blouch uses for the Dom 3.5 and 4's.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:00 PM   #20
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Did you mean compatible with the Dom series? This should work with any of the Garrett cartridge based Dom XTR turbos, 1.5, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4 and 5.
Yes I did. I thought it was a complete turbo kit similar to Perrin.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:48 PM   #21
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So basically this is like the full race "stock" location kit but for garretts and for more money? Why would someone choose this kit when they can choose a slightly cheaper one that allows them to use an ever better turbo? A kit like this makes perfect sense if its priced around the difference in cost between a standard fitment and subaru fitment + a nice downpipe. For example, the difference between a subaru fitment 3071R and one with a TiAL housing is ~$300, a really nice downpipe is ~$600. At $900 someone would have to be a complete moron to not buy your kit over a subaru turbine housing turbo and then sell their current downpipe. Even at $1200 the performance difference looks to be completely and 100% worth it. But at $1700, it comes down to, why not buy the EFR setup to get the better turbo. I dont mean to be the wet blanket, just trying to be realistic.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
So basically this is like the full race "stock" location kit but for garretts and for more money? Why would someone choose this kit when they can choose a slightly cheaper one that allows them to use an ever better turbo? A kit like this makes perfect sense if its priced around the difference in cost between a standard fitment and subaru fitment + a nice downpipe. For example, the difference between a subaru fitment 3071R and one with a TiAL housing is ~$300, a really nice downpipe is ~$600. At $900 someone would have to be a complete moron to not buy your kit over a subaru turbine housing turbo and then sell their current downpipe. Even at $1200 the performance difference looks to be completely and 100% worth it. But at $1700, it comes down to, why not buy the EFR setup to get the better turbo. I dont mean to be the wet blanket, just trying to be realistic.
What you quote above is all debatable depending on the perspective in which you view the information.

Then you have to prove the EFR's are actually better turbos. That still remains to be seen and proven. Sorry to be a blast of compressed air on your wet blanket. Pun intended!
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
So basically this is like the full race "stock" location kit but for garretts and for more money? Why would someone choose this kit when they can choose a slightly cheaper one that allows them to use an ever better turbo? A kit like this makes perfect sense if its priced around the difference in cost between a standard fitment and subaru fitment + a nice downpipe. For example, the difference between a subaru fitment 3071R and one with a TiAL housing is ~$300, a really nice downpipe is ~$600. At $900 someone would have to be a complete moron to not buy your kit over a subaru turbine housing turbo and then sell their current downpipe. Even at $1200 the performance difference looks to be completely and 100% worth it. But at $1700, it comes down to, why not buy the EFR setup to get the better turbo. I dont mean to be the wet blanket, just trying to be realistic.
We never jumped on the EFR bandwagon for a few reasons. No data, no endurance testing or field testing, no Subaru data and BW can't seem to make more than 5 a year.

As Manitou stated, which is better is highly debatable. From the limited plots I've seen the EFRs that would be comparable to the 3067 do not perform as well. More lag and more taper up high. My guess is this is due to the inferior IWG turbine housing of the EFR. The EFR is L-O-N-G to the DP has to take an extremely sharp/tight bend at the exit of the turbo, likely the cause for this performance hit too. Plus most IWG setups are just more turbulent than a non-IWG setup. There is a sweet spot for a WG for best WG performance and least turbulence, or influence on the turbine flow, and the EFR just can't do that with the given housing. Of course this setup we're testing and the turbo are relatively new as well. If I were looking at these, I wouldn't trust the data until it starts flowing in from independent sources (for anyone's product). Then judge.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:26 AM   #24
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Still, there are EWG housings coming out for them now TiAL is supposed to be making some soon, so actually hot side wise they would fit your kit, the bearing housing is just longer. Lack of results seems to be a subaru thing, and I'm still placing blame on the subaru tooners faults. The only issues we've seen with the IWG on other cars is with road racers/auto-xers who are trying to run 25+ psi and with a low-medium pressure IWG can to get better part throttle control and blow the wastegate open with exhaust manifold pressure, this seems to be part of the issue not addressed in some of the tapering off dynos. A switch to a 2 port IWG can and 4 port boost controller fixes that right quick. But this argument doesnt really belong in this thread.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:22 AM   #25
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^ Maybe with the Tial housing the outputs will be better matched to the hype behind them... or maybe in time better results will be posted by someone besides a reseller.

Hotside wise it would likely fit and it would have decent flow path coming out too, but nothing else would fit. Not even close.

Smaller WGs always have better control until they reach capacity, which is why we are a big proponent (and only use) the 38mm WGs. IWG are very often the cause of 'issues' in stock form when these things are pushed, in any platform. Another reason to avoid them.
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