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07-25-2013, 05:37 AM | #601 |
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Do you know what he loves more then numbers? Quoting himself, true story
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07-25-2013, 06:30 AM | #602 | |
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This thread was his attempt to climb on his self-created soap-box after he did not get a warm reception in the Warranty or Impreza MPG thread from other NASIOC members regarding his MPG complaint. Please, if you don't have a CVT, or have a CVT and get good mileage, don't bother with him. He needs a gullible audience to sell what he is selling. |
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07-25-2013, 08:45 AM | #603 |
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07-25-2013, 09:26 AM | #604 | |
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In any case, when you take over NASIOC, you can censor me. Until then, post your unproven theories, and I will show you their inherent flaws. |
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07-25-2013, 10:51 AM | #605 | |||
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As far as HWY vs. Combined mpg, you said: Quote:
Quote:
As far as your "CVT's get more of the higher end mpg's" that's true only when you get out beyond the top standard deviation, when according to BigFatHorse's fuelly data the CVT gets 30.1 and the 5 speed gets 30.0. At the bottom standard deviation though, the 5 speed gets 25.6, while the CVT gets only 24.4 mpg. That's a much greater difference, and shows the CVT gets more poor mpg than the 5 speed (as well as a worse average). You should go try to look for the truth rather than spew your bs. |
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07-25-2013, 10:59 AM | #606 |
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LOL, now you are refusing to talk about HWY mpg's exclusively?
So you do not believe that a CVT would get worse MPG's than a 5 speed on the same highway drive? Good, I guess we agree. Anyone who cares can look at the same Fuelly data we are, and will see that Impreza's with the highest combined mpg's are all CVT equipped Impreza's -- not a single 5 speed on the far right of the data set. That the Fuelly data confirms both the EPA mandated testing, and the experience of many NASIOC owners who have a CVT and report much higher mileage than my 5 Speed obtains, is only lost on you. Last edited by Zeeper; 07-25-2013 at 11:07 AM. |
07-25-2013, 01:44 PM | #607 |
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25 pages of bickering.....
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07-25-2013, 05:32 PM | #608 | |
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07-25-2013, 06:43 PM | #609 |
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I already pointed out how the chart is color coded, on June 20th in this very thread, even a kindergartener can figure out what color means CVT, and see the highest MPG's belong to that color
If this thread is cyclical, it's because you want it to be, I'm just jumping in when you make easily disprove able claims. Last edited by Zeeper; 07-26-2013 at 07:34 PM. |
07-25-2013, 07:13 PM | #610 |
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Someone I know liked my car(s) so much they went out and bought a premium cvt.
They do a lot more 70+mph turnpike cruising than I do, but we live in the same area and often roadtrip in convoys. I shall start a mpg "war" with them once we have a few thousand miles each and let yall know what comes of it. |
07-26-2013, 03:24 PM | #611 | |
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07-27-2013, 06:45 PM | #612 |
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Zeeper and Caocao convinced me (actually Caocao - Zeeper probably still won't get it, but Caocao's an engineer so he will) to run some numbers. I took BigFatHorse's database from here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=35 and plotted the mpg's out. Zeeper's been talking about all the CVT's that get really good mpg way over on the right, so here's what he's talking about. However, you can see that there are CVT's to the left as well (further actually) - that's because there are 140 drivers in the database with CVT's and only 38 with 5MT's. If you kind of step back (well, or sit back) and look at the big picture, you can see the 5MT's, despite that enthusiasts generally prefer manual transmissions, get better mpg with the Impreza. The average for this, the big dataset, is 27.7 mpg for the 5MT and 27.1 for the CVT's. |
07-28-2013, 12:50 AM | #613 |
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I have an idea, get current data...
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07-28-2013, 01:28 AM | #614 |
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Feel free. You have what I used. More data is always good. Get it all...
One interesting thing that came out is that the '12's averaged 27.8, while the '13's only averaged 27.2. Is that just break-in, PZEV, or what? There is not likely a silver bullet. |
07-28-2013, 09:18 AM | #615 |
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Nice graph; however, it only proves one thing - Different drivers with different driving habits over different terrain have different gas (MPG) results. Now if one driver were to drive all of the 140 different cars over the same terrain, then this graph might have some validity/meaning.
My father-in-law will always be complaining about gas mileage because he "floors it" to get started and then brakes to slow it down to the speed limit and the "floors it" again to come back up to speed. Then he basically "slams on the breaks" at the last minute for stop signs and red lights. |
07-28-2013, 10:55 AM | #616 | |
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07-28-2013, 12:59 PM | #617 |
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However, you cannot draw the conclusions you want to draw from that graph. If more miles are driven in the city by the drivers on Fuely, the Combined Average mpg will be lower to reflect that. They are not robots driving on a closed course, 50% highway, 50% city.
Since you don't know the mix of driving, it is pretty meaningless data for the conclusion you are reaching for. Try clicking on individual cars, and see if the owner reported the driving mix, and draw your conclusions from that. |
07-28-2013, 01:38 PM | #618 | |
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Nope, this matches up quite well with the Consumer Reports data. Give it up. |
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07-28-2013, 02:58 PM | #619 |
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Bottom line is no matter how hard you try to prove it, not everybody with a cvt will get poor milage. Today 276 mile trip with wife and 2 kids with air on driving 70 half way and close to 80 the rest and I did over 34. That's with the back loaded with luggage and driving thru Kansas City also. I took rack off for this trip, but I'm pretty dang happy with those numbers from the CVT. and btw, my calculated milage is only .7 mpg less than that of my dash computer. Then factor in pump calibrations and that's + - 7 tenths. So its pretty accurate luckily. I'll leave it as it is. Havnt checked calibration if speedo since GPS and phone app are not accurate anyway.
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07-28-2013, 03:45 PM | #620 |
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Like I keep saying, some of them are okay. Some are not.
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07-28-2013, 04:29 PM | #621 |
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07-28-2013, 07:25 PM | #622 |
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It is a well known scientific and mathematical fact, quoted in the bible (all major religions, even scientology), that the style of driving and the type of driving being done has no effect whatsoever, ever, never, on the resultant mpg's.
Didn't you read his take on Consumer Reports? Stop being blasphemous. |
07-28-2013, 09:10 PM | #623 |
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I understand the religion part, but not the math part- I'm not an engineer so I won't "get it". My uncle was an engineer for NASA until he died, I'd ask him if he were still here. He might get it. After all, he designed the optics for the space shuttle cameras, among other things. Kinda why he died of a brain tumor at 55, too much R&D. His engineering contributions to our world for the engineers interested-or maybe stupidity just runs in my family ;-)
He is listed just above this abstract , dated 1980 from Huntsville, Ala. http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrar...d=1230781#site One of the patents he and his team have- http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4102580.pdf Last edited by G2Spfld; 07-28-2013 at 10:35 PM. |
07-28-2013, 11:38 PM | #624 |
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That's cool. But you don't have to be an engineer to "get it" - a real engineer (as opposed to a plug-and-chugger) will, and most other people can. I was referring to some people here not being able to look at facts and change their opinion.
"When my information changes, I change my mind. What do you do?" (John Maynard Keynes) |
07-28-2013, 11:45 PM | #625 | |
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