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Old 03-12-2022, 07:53 AM   #76
mcarb002
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IMO, they realized making the STI with the FA24 would be way too expensive with the things the way they are. They pulled the plug while they could. Think about how bad the inflation is going to get and how much cars went up in cost. This car would have been over 50 grand with all the things people expected out of it. The WRX has a lot left on the table. They can continue to increase the power with the updates and add DCC to more trims and still make it affordable in the grand scheme of things. Also, they still have the BRZ as their halo car. What is super weak is the way they let the STi die...I can't get over that. At the very least they should have released a limited final edition with S209 goodies. Shame on you Subaru for letting an icon like that go out without a bang...
So you’re telling me you ain’t feeling the “Love”, and on top of that nighthawk has been vindicated. Man it’s not looking good for Subaru lol
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Old 03-12-2022, 09:23 AM   #77
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This is very saddening, Subaru should have just kept the EJ257 for this last generation of WRX before "electrification." I know emissions is always a concern. I know using a nearly 20 yo engine isn't anything to brag about...but there was always more to be had from that engine. And if car reviewers were told it's a new engine before a test drive they'd probably rave about the experience until after the test drive when they find out it's not...

Subaru could have slightly bumped up the power very easily to appease critics. They could have even limited the STi to fewer numbers with $50k price tags...I'm sure they'd have no problem selling them...use engineering that's already paid for to keep costs down etc.

It's funny...Mitsubishi just decided to throw in the towel years ago and given their financial situation it was understandable. Ford said "Let's give them a taste of the RS and snatch it back." GM decided it was too much trouble to play in the sandbox. Subaru said "Eh, this last WRX...it's...good enough." Honda is like, "This is going to be the best year ever!"
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Old 03-12-2022, 09:31 AM   #78
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L M F A O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Guess who's not surprised....? N I G H T H A W K S T I!!!! NAILED IT!!!! NAILED IT!!! NAILED IT!!!

I swear SUBARU literally took some of my posts over the past 2 years about the next STI being electric , word for word in that official release. the past 2+ years. The EJ257 STI is it. Legend.

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Old 03-12-2022, 09:55 AM   #79
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Hi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

: )
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Old 03-12-2022, 10:04 AM   #80
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You win 5 nasioc internet points you dolt.
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Old 03-12-2022, 10:17 AM   #81
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I am NIGHTHAWK STI.

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Old 03-12-2022, 10:24 AM   #82
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Agree with all of this. I think they will offer the manual 6 speed for 3-4 more years. This transmission never came anywhere near close to its durability limits from 2004 to 2021 in the STI, I think the engineers want to keep this transmission because it can handle literally ANY power level they want to bring to the STI platform over the next 3-4 years. 395 horsepower is an easy target for the 2.4 FA when reworked for it. If it gets better mileage than the current STI and maybe even the smaller engined WRX out right now..even if its marginally better, it is a step in the right direction and will allow them to offer the all ICE engine version of these cars just a little longer before the rest of the industry is going electric in 2025 and increasing their mileage capabilities across their fleets. I think after that though the STI is going to be electric hybrid making close to 500 horsepower or more. They could also most likely keep the 6 speed by converting it to Sequential manual hydraulic electronic automatic modes.
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they can still encorporate eyesite with a dual clutch version of the current 6 speed, and have electric motor supplementation. All the wishful thinking that the STI will just remain ICE only and always have a clutch pedal with nothing else is probably not going to happen. Just look at the direction performance cars are going in other manufacturers flagships, the STI will innovate as well. There is only so much they can do with a strictly gas powered drivetrain and a clutch pedal transmission when the technology to totally transform performance is here now.
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Missing the point again. A manufacturer introducing hybrid electric motors on a performance car isnt "overdelivering" anymore....its becoming common and easier than ever, and actually a no brainer to eliminate a lot of problems associated with squeezing crazy horsepower out of an internal combustion engine by itself, namely; rotating assembly durability/reduced stress, a higher obtainable efficiency in fuel consumption from the electric motors adding power and not exclusively from BSFC, much much more torque under the curve that is essentially unobtainable from ICE engines, better electronic management of power delivery, etc etc etc etc etc. And even if its not hybrid for 2022/2023 it will be by 2024/2025, so missing the point that its not just about the first year of the new gen that could certainly be just a new engine powering it, its more about how long it will last in that first year configuration before it gets electric supplementation.
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A manufacturer yes. Subaru no.
I nailed it.

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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
wrong. The reason I talk about it isnt because I pulled it out of thin air...there was an video interview with an STI design engineer in 2015 where he talked about adding electric motors to the rear of the STI relative to building the output to 400 horsepower or more....and that it would be a much more efficient solution. I cant take credit for the idea sorry. The technology is here now, so its almost guaranteed it will be incorporated in a flagship performance subaru by 2025 because every other manufacturer will.
So NOT now. 2025. I don't see Subaru killing the STI in the meantime anywhere in your years of ramblings about a video you saw. 400 hp was predicted with the engine. Up to the last.

Yesterday we learned Subaru still can't make a good engine. Mercedes can. Mercedes won. Subaru is a dumpster fire and didn't put AMG to shame.

We also learned Subaru engineers had over 7 years to fit an electric rear axle to a car. And they could not.

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Old 03-12-2022, 10:38 AM   #83
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There's not a lot of cars under 50k in the market now and in the near future that interest me.
In the future, there won't be a lot of cars that will interest you under 50k, period. This is another indicator of the death of the middle-class affordable sports car. Politicians have already vocalized their out-of-touch solutions. "If you don't want to pay high gas prices, then buy an electric car." Who has the money for this? Where are the ****ing charging stations? I can see the middle class back to single-car households.

Don't worry, the government will take care of you, as long as you conform to what benefits their false narratives.

Long live 2019. We're in the upper-middle class range, and our spending and value of a dollar feels more like it did right after we finished college.

I'm glad I have my piece of history, VA or not.

My only hope for the WRX is to introduce the manual in the GT trim. I think they'll try to win back some prior STI owners by offering limited packages with Brembos, bigger wheels, etc. An example is whatever the STI package WRX that has been going around. The red one that was advertised. I can't find it anymore.

Maybe there will be some incremental power increases with this generation over the years, but nothing drastic. Maybe another 5 here, 10 there, depending on what the competition does.

You would think Subaru would at least pick some low lying fruit from the Golf R market. Honestly, if they offered Recaros and some 4-piston Brembos, I'd at least be interested. They have done these kinds of things with the BRZ, so I think it's realistic. I'm sure it will come with a $5,000 upcharge.

I wonder if Subaru couldn't get good enough MPG, or meet emission standards with their power goals, in order to justify keeping the STI around. It seems possible, considering the garbage gas mileage in the new WRX.

Regardless, I'm seriously bummed out. I didn't mind being a fanboy, I loved the brand. I just lost a lot of respect for Subaru. It may be childish, but I almost with we'd ordered something else aside from our Forester. The brand means a lot less to me now. Silly, but I can't help it.
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Old 03-12-2022, 10:43 AM   #84
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Can't say I am surprised by this, to be honest. In retrospect, the only surprising thing is that it took as long as it did. The writing was on the wall in 2015 when the new VA model appeared and Subaru couldn't be bothered with a new engine for their halo sports car.

There was a pretty significant gap between the WRX and the STI in 2004. Different engines, better AWD, lightening, etc. It's all been eroded over the past 18 years as the WRX received continuous improvement and the STI received continuous cost cutting. The end of the EVO also spelled the end of any motivation to improve the STI.

Subaru's ongoing quality issues were likely the final nail in the coffin. A tuned FA would take some R&D spending, but that money went toward the roughly $3 billion Subaru has spent since 2015 on recalls to fix bad CVTs, oil burning engines, etc.

At this point there's no business case in a highly tuned FA because they can't put it in anything else and meet fuel economy and emissions regulations. The original EJ257 ended up in everything for a few years. Years later, Subaru saw how well a $65k+ STi sold and the accountants wisely pulled the plug.
Unfortunately, Subaru had already spent money on certifying STI as a manufacturer, which looks like another horribly bad decision in retrospect.

Rereading this, I realize it sounds like a eulogy. RIP STi.
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Old 03-12-2022, 10:57 AM   #85
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Good. An EV STI will easily outperform gas burners.
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Old 03-12-2022, 11:08 AM   #86
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This. That's the guy who really nailed it. The EV STI better be something special, but I suspect it is many, many years away.
They'll be nothing special compared to what will already be out there at that point. Expect a very expensive, out-of-reach price tag for most people here.

I personally believe by the time the electric "STI" comes out, developed countries will already be on their way to high volume electric self-driving mass transit fleets. It may be obsolete by the time it hits the road, with the next evolution already leaning toward self-driving.

The big dogs are already working on this, and if you pay attention, there are many suggestions that this will be the future. Pull up the app on your phone, enter your destination, and a self-driving ride-share car will be at your door within minutes to take you to your destination. It's not hard to believe this will either be a 'pay-per-ride' service, with the option of a subscription. There's an easy solution to long distance trips. Your EV will take you to a hub, where you will transfer your luggage for your scheduled fully-charged EV waiting for you. Think of it as a micro-layover, like air travel. This really isn't far off. Auto travel will most definitely be safe, and eventually more efficient, but at the cost of further reliance on technology, and depriving us of yet another true experience. Dehumanization, in my opinion.

Again though... how will you power the charging stations? You're going to have to upgrade the electrical grid. Good luck doing that without increasing fossil fuels in this generation, as solar, wind, etc has proven to be inconsistent. I suspect nuclear energy will have to make a comeback to meet the agenda, but at what cost when there's an unforeseen event causing a catostrophic global impact like Chernobyl and Fukashima.

What about the heat from reflective solar panels, which are generally hot to-the-touch. What will this do to the already impact of "urban heat islands." All of this will again f*** the middle class and beat the **** out of the lower class.

It's not hard to believe gas prices will never come down enough to not influence people toward EV's.

There's no doubt we'll see driveway-less houses in our lifetimes. I'm just concerned about the evolution moving well ahead of economic practicality.

So there. The STI as we can fathom is dead forever, in my opinion.

I suggest trying to find the right tech and EV automotive companies to invest in. Although for the love of God, don't pick Chinese NIO... I bought a significant amount, using profits from other shares, and purchased shares at a very low $32. It shot up to $45. Now, it's down to $16. Think Tesla, or Apple.

Best of luck. Hold onto your STI's, and even WRX's, as long as you'll be able to afford to buy the skyrocketing price of gas, leading to eventual worsening petrol supply-and-demand issues when cars are mostly EV. As much as we despise it, in 20 years we'll be longing for something as engaging as the current generation WRX... maybe even the CVT...

*Steps down from soapbox*
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Old 03-12-2022, 11:17 AM   #87
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Good. An EV STI will easily outperform gas burners.
An EV STi will almost certainly weigh 4000+ pounds, just like an AWD Model 3. In a straight line it wins, sure, but turning will be a different story. No doubt it will be a fun car, but it's going to be a different kind of fun.
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Old 03-12-2022, 11:47 AM   #88
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Who was saying the next GEN STI was going to go electric???

N I G H T H A W K S T I. That's who....BOOM BABY!!!
.

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Old 03-12-2022, 11:55 AM   #89
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Who was saying the next GEN STI was going to have over 400 hp and own AMG???

N I G H T H A W K S T I. That's who....BOOM BABY!!!
.
400hp easy from the EJ25…erm FA24! lolololololol
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Old 03-12-2022, 11:56 AM   #90
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Who was saying the next GEN STI was going to go electric???
A broken clock is right twice a day. You got lucky because of Subaru not being able to supply an engine for this current generation. Had you predicted that then I would give you props but you were predicting this gen would be EV and Subaru decided to skip it all together. We all knew that eventually the STI would be an EV so it being two generations out was not a bold prediction at all as we are looking at 2028 (Matt Maran says 2029) until this next STI.
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Old 03-12-2022, 12:06 PM   #91
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They'll be nothing special compared to what will already be out there at that point. Expect a very expensive, out-of-reach price tag for most people here.

I personally believe by the time the electric "STI" comes out, developed countries will already be on their way to high volume electric self-driving mass transit fleets. It may be obsolete by the time it hits the road, with the next evolution already leaning toward self-driving.

The big dogs are already working on this, and if you pay attention, there are many suggestions that this will be the future. Pull up the app on your phone, enter your destination, and a self-driving ride-share car will be at your door within minutes to take you to your destination. It's not hard to believe this will either be a 'pay-per-ride' service, with the option of a subscription. There's an easy solution to long distance trips. Your EV will take you to a hub, where you will transfer your luggage for your scheduled fully-charged EV waiting for you. Think of it as a micro-layover, like air travel. This really isn't far off. Auto travel will most definitely be safe, and eventually more efficient, but at the cost of further reliance on technology, and depriving us of yet another true experience. Dehumanization, in my opinion.

Again though... how will you power the charging stations? You're going to have to upgrade the electrical grid. Good luck doing that without increasing fossil fuels in this generation, as solar, wind, etc has proven to be inconsistent. I suspect nuclear energy will have to make a comeback to meet the agenda, but at what cost when there's an unforeseen event causing a catostrophic global impact like Chernobyl and Fukashima.

What about the heat from reflective solar panels, which are generally hot to-the-touch. What will this do to the already impact of "urban heat islands." All of this will again f*** the middle class and beat the **** out of the lower class.

It's not hard to believe gas prices will never come down enough to not influence people toward EV's.

There's no doubt we'll see driveway-less houses in our lifetimes. I'm just concerned about the evolution moving well ahead of economic practicality.

So there. The STI as we can fathom is dead forever, in my opinion.

I suggest trying to find the right tech and EV automotive companies to invest in. Although for the love of God, don't pick Chinese NIO... I bought a significant amount, using profits from other shares, and purchased shares at a very low $32. It shot up to $45. Now, it's down to $16. Think Tesla, or Apple.

Best of luck. Hold onto your STI's, and even WRX's, as long as you'll be able to afford to buy the skyrocketing price of gas, leading to eventual worsening petrol supply-and-demand issues when cars are mostly EV. As much as we despise it, in 20 years we'll be longing for something as engaging as the current generation WRX... maybe even the CVT...

*Steps down from soapbox*
LOL....gas pumps use more kilowatts per hour than the average EV home charger....which uses the kilowatts per hour equivelant on average to a Home hot water heater lol. If all the gas pumps in the country were swapped out wit EV chargers tomorrow, they would be using less electricity than the gas pumps.

NIO is a solid buy now..you should be averaging down your cost basis right NOW. The NEO park factory is 90% complete..its a MASSIVE ev complex that will have the capacity to produce a million ev's per year. And its already paid for, they have no debt and are sitting on 7 billion in liquid cash. NIO is going to be in 25 countries over the next 3-4years INCLUDING the U.S. They are already using thousands of battery swap stations in China and just expanded that to Norway. Battery swap allows for charge free driving, battery is swapped for a fully charged in 3 minutes. Also allows their cars to be sold without the battery, which makes entry price less than a tesla, and subscription for 150 a month Gets you the battery swap. They will be bigger than tesla...and apple???? Pffffft...NIO IS, the next apple.

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 03-12-2022 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 03-12-2022, 12:27 PM   #92
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"As the automotive marketplace continues to move towards electrification, Subaru is focused on how our future sports and performance cars should evolve to meet the needs of the changing marketplace and the regulations and requirements for greenhouse gasses (GHG), zero emissions vehicles (ZEV), and Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ).

As part of that effort, Subaru Corporation is exploring opportunities for the next generation Subaru WRX STI, including electrification. In the meantime, a next generation internal combustion engine WRX STI will not be produced based upon the new WRX platform."

Translation: the FA24 is already obsolete, the ej257 survived all the way up to electrification and we crown it the legend of the STI internal combustion, and cement that in STI history. The next GEN STI, when it comes will be electric.



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Old 03-12-2022, 12:46 PM   #93
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An EV STi will almost certainly weigh 4000+ pounds, just like an AWD Model 3. In a straight line it wins, sure, but turning will be a different story. No doubt it will be a fun car, but it's going to be a different kind of fun.
Having seen Model 3 Performance Tesla's smoke modern Porsche's in Autocross and on track days, I disagree about them "only" being about straight line performance.

Don't forget Taycans exist, which are extremely fun to drive. The next Cayman will also be EV and lighter/cheaper. If the STI can do a budget one of those... Man, could be great.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:10 PM   #94
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Having seen Model 3 Performance Tesla's smoke modern Porsche's in Autocross and on track days, I disagree about them "only" being about straight line performance.

Don't forget Taycans exist, which are extremely fun to drive. The next Cayman will also be EV and lighter/cheaper. If the STI can do a budget one of those... Man, could be great.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not crapping on EVs. I drove a friend's Model 3 Performance and another has a Mach-E. My next daily driver car will be electric...

...but they are heavy. You can strap on some gumball tires and hide the mass for a few laps, but it's still there. Even the Tesla roadster was 700+ pounds heavier than an Elise. I recall comparison tests of the Roadster and the Elise and the "heaviness" of the Roadster was always mentioned. Unless people are willing to live with 150 mile ranges, normal sized EVs will always tip the scales at 1000+ pounds heavier than the equivalent combustion vehicle. Not saying they aren't fun, but they are a different experience.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:12 PM   #95
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Enjoy the new STI engine while its here because things will change super fast the closer we get to 2025. This is why I am confident the new STI will have over 400 horsepower stock though...probably 400-420. The electric performance cars will have over 500 and much more torque. The FA alone will not be able to hang...by 2025 it will be a 10 year old engine immersed in an EV performance world.

NAILED IT

NAILING ALL THE THINGS

IGNORE THOSE NOT IGNORING ALL THE THINGS BEING NAILED
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:21 PM   #96
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Who was saying the next GEN STI was going to go electric???

N I G H T H A W K S T I. That's who....BOOM BABY!!!
.
well we know to expect a hybrid before an all electric STI. so what would the power split be between the tuned FA24DIT and the electric motor. will the motor be attached to the transmission or rear axle. I don't see them putting a motor in each wheel until the all electric STI. the electric motor can help get the instant torque up at low speeds before the turbo kicks in. we will have to wait to see how STI will utilize hybridization for performance purposes.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:27 PM   #97
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well we know to expect a hybrid before an all electric STI. so what would the power split be between the tuned FA24DIT and the electric motor. will the motor be attached to the transmission or rear axle. I don't see them putting a motor in each wheel until the all electric STI. the electric motor can help get the instant torque up at low speeds before the turbo kicks in. we will have to wait to see how STI will utilize hybridization for performance purposes.
I think you are missing what the announcement said. There will be no WRX STI this generation. 7 years! You think the WRX will stick around after that 7 years and an STI will be made from that? 2030 people. Not 2025. It's over.


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If the STI can do a budget one of those... Man, could be great.
Look for STI essence in all Subaru vehicles. Namaste.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:49 PM   #98
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Correct your looking at 7-8 years easy for a WRX STi . Assuming Subaru even offers one in 7-8 years. They are so far behind on EV like the rest of the Japanese brands they may get left behind.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:58 PM   #99
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I think you are missing what the announcement said. There will be no WRX STI this generation. 7 years! You think the WRX will stick around after that 7 years and an STI will be made from that? 2030 people. Not 2025. It's over.
I’m thinking that as well, that seems to be the case, nevertheless the wording can also be open to some other interpretations as there is some vagueness.


Remember this from 2020:


There has been rumor of Ascent Hybrid coming up. Maybe they have been developing that and into a new STI. Maybe it’s all going according to plan as an Outback, Legacy, and Ascent are to be revealed Spring/Summer with the STI in the fall……or, indeed this is further proof that they completely scrapped a car they were developing but completely botched or just couldn’t get it to work properly. I dunno. Guess we’ll find out.
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Old 03-12-2022, 02:18 PM   #100
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Lapis Blue Pearl

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My money is on STI being a badge similar to TRD or Wilderness. Already seeing it in Japan with that Levorg STI.
cyralax is offline   Reply With Quote
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