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Old 06-17-2005, 11:09 PM   #1
matt6669
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Default need to know what this fuse is

alright im having a problem that i keep getting a dead battery
so i went and go a tester and i have it hooked up so the clip is on the terminal and the pointy end is sandwhiched inbetween the connecter, but the end isn't on the terminal its disconnect. When i do this the light comes on meaning i have a draw from somewhere
so i've narrowed it down, i heard a noise coming from my cd player it sounds like its spinning a cd when the car is turned off thats the first drain. It's a very small one but its a drain
gonna find someone with another stock radio to see if its just my radio or not
but this is the big drain i need to know what

SBF NO.5 is what fuse is that. When i take this fuse out it goes from being bright as anything to complete out if the radio is disconnect.

I searched the boards for 30 minutes trying to get a picture of hte fuse box and of course the owners manual doesn't tell you

please help i gotta figure this out

Thanks
Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 12:28 AM   #2
matt6669
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whelp i've tracked it down i believe

if you hold the ecu with the wires going into the ecu towards you
so if you push the plugs in you would be pushing towards the front of the car
the first plug when unplugged the test light goes almost out but theres still a glow. If you take the second one out nothing happens
you take the third one out and then the light goes out completely
anyone know what these two plugs control im going to go and see if i can find a wirering diagram

Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:06 AM   #3
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whelp took another tester that actually gives a readout and found out that i was getting a drain from the front 02 sensor negative terminal
so i went under the hood unplugged the front 02 sensor and tried the plus
the one didn't give a reading but the other did and im assuming that is the negative
so now where does that ground to anyone have any ideas

Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:17 AM   #4
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but from your posts it sounds like you don't have the proper knowledge and experience to troubleshoot this correctly. First of all you should never use a test light like that (in series with the battery connection), only use a milliameter to test current drain.
I highly suggest you get some assistance from someone local who knows what they are doing. You'll find the problem much faster with far less risk of messing something up, and you'll learn a few things.
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:23 AM   #5
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i indeed asked a few people and this is what they told me to do
why shouldn't you test it this way
please elaborate and then maybe i will learn

what i am trying to do is get this fixed as cheap as possible b/c i can't afford to pay anyone as im in the process of getting the car fixed so i can sell it and im already going to lose enough money on this car as it is

with your knowledge how would you handle it??
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Old 06-18-2005, 10:08 AM   #6
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anyone
trying to get this fixed today hopefully i gotta be able to sell this thing soon

Matt

please help!!
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Old 06-18-2005, 11:01 AM   #7
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When testing voltage or current in a circuit the testing equipment should affect the circuit as little as possible, to avoid affecting the results or changing the circuit behavior. A volt or ammeter is designed to do this, when connected in parallel (voltmeter) or series (ammeter) it will take the measurement but not present a significant load to the circuit being measured.
However a test light is a resistive load so it acts like a resistor in series with the circuit. As more current is drawn through the filament and it lights up, there will be an increasing voltage drop across it. Therefore the testing device itself affects the circuit being tested, no good. Besides that you are not getting a good quantitative reading (i.e. how many milliamps is the car actually drawing?), just a glow/no glow from the light.
To properly test for an excessive standby or "parasitic" drain, you MUST use a milliameter in series with one of the battery terminals. Connect the meter, close all doors and the trunk, remove the key and wait a minute or so then check the reading. It should be well below 100ma, maybe even closer to 10ma. If it's much higher, first check to be sure the trunk light is turning off as this will drain your battery and you won't see it. Easy enough to check on the WRX, just look through the rear seat pass-through. If that's not it, disconnect any aftermarket stuff with full-time power, next start pulling fuses. When you disconnect the offending device or circuit the current on the meter will fall back to normal levels.
To identify the function of a particular fuse, look in your owners manual. The fuse locations and designations are listed in there. Note that most fuses are not dedicated to one circuit or device, but are used for several. So, even if you isolate the drain to one specific fuse you'll still need to look at each thing connected to it.
Don't take readings with the door open, the interior and door ajar lights will add to the drain and affect the readings. You can turn the interior light off which will still leave the door ajar light, however that's an LED so it doesn't draw that much (maybe 20-30 ma or so).
Under NO circumstances should you ever try to start the car with the meter connected in series with the battery, the surge of current from the starter will destroy the meter or at least blow its internal fuse if it has one.
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Old 06-18-2005, 11:45 AM   #8
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well it turns out my brother does have one of those that gives a reading
my battery is giving off 10.7 when you hook it up with the car off nothing on. I think i finally found the source though. Last night i took the plugs out of the ecm and tested the holes and one of the holes was leading to the mass air flow sensor so today i took the meter and started testing it. If your looking at the clip with the holes towards you the one al lthe way on the left is giving a reading of 10.69 now if thats not suppose to be like that, then thats DEFINITELY why i am getting a dead battery. It seems my car has draws all over the place when i believe it shouldn't. It also turns out that the draw from the front o2 sensor is very small compared to that of the mas.

I've always tried to do work myself as i believe the more you learn the better we are off. This whole electrical thing is new to me and im starting to learn a whole lot about it. Thank you so much for the information and if you have anymore information of suggestions that would be great.

What i've found so far
when sbf no 5 is pulled i have no draw left so thats the circuit that is bad. What i've found is it controlled a lot of things. I had a mil eliminator from when i had a dp in but thats been taken out al ong time ago so i took that out. Still no avail some people said to just unplug the rear 02 sensor so i did that no avail.
No i found a drain in the mass air flow sensor a big one.
a drain on the radio but i believe there should be a small one there.
and a small drain from the front 02 sensor
plugs 1 and 3 on the ecm are the culprit now i just have to trace them
ahhh gotta love electrical.

Matt

ps a long time ago i had blown a fuse i believe it might of even been the sbf no 5 for no reason. I was driving and the car just died we have no idea why it blew but when we found out hte problem we just replaced it and i never had a problem since well untill i have this dead battery problem thought i would mention that as im sure it would be of use

Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 12:17 PM   #9
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10.7 WHAT? And the battery doesn't "give off" anything-
If you are referring to voltage that isn't what you're supposed to be looking at, you should be measuring current. If what you're testing is the voltage ACROSS the battery and you are seeing 10.7 volts with the car off, your battery is dead and should be recharged or replaced before you go further.
The MAF and other various sensors connected to the ECU should not be live when the car is off, however depending on how things are wired it is possible that you would see voltage on some points. That doesn't necessarily mean that anything is wrong. The 02 sensors, your fix etc. will have nothing to do with this as they are connected to the ECU and do nothing until the key is on and the engine is running.
If you are finding a lot of ECU-related things live when they shouldn't be you may want to check the main relay which is located in the passenger kick panel next to the fuel pump relay. If that relay is bad and remaining closed when it shouldn't, it could explain your problem.
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Old 06-18-2005, 12:31 PM   #10
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haha lets see if i can talk and make sense
i am using an autoranging multimeter from craftsmen
i have it set on the option of v dc and thats when i get hte reading of 10.7 dc

also i heard of this relay what does it look like and how do i check it, do i check it with the multimeter or somehow else. I had the whole kick panel out as the whole ecm is out laying on the floor as i was testing that.

thanks for the information so far its been a great help

Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:05 PM   #11
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You are measuring voltage when you want to measure current. As I said though if you are seeing 10.7V across the battery it's really dead and you should take care of that first as it will affect the current readings not to mention the car probably won't start.
Now, assuming you have a good, charged battery in the car-
Set the meter to a current range, you may want to start with a higher range and work your way down until you get a reading. Some meters use a different plug for the positive probe when measuring current so make sure you've got the right one. Disconnect one of the battery terminals, connect one of the meter probes to the battery post and the other to the terminal clamp you just took off. The meter is now in series with the battery and will show you the current drain. Follow the instructions I posted above.
The main relay has a brown connector with 6 wires. You should really have the wiring manual for the car as it contains the info you need to follow and test these circuits and components.
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:13 PM   #12
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would you happen to have the wirering diagram
i found one off of northursalia.com but its just an impreza one, wondering if you had one for the 02
going back outside to see if i can get it to work lets see if i can get the right readings hahaha
Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:27 PM   #13
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Guy, like Mulder said: if you're reading 10.7 volts off the battery with engine off, your problem is probably the battery itself, not any "drains" on the system.

OTOH, since you said you're selling the car---have you pulled any electronics OUT of the car, such as a subwoofer, head unit, displays, etc?? In other words, have you done ANYTHING to the vehicle wiring lately?

BTW, your ECU *should* be drawing some current when the ignition is off, all the time...and the ECU pins are NOT a good place for you to be poking around, as a beginner, with electronics.
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:35 PM   #14
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I have the manuals but that doesn't help you, I can't send you the entire book which is what you need since you may have to refer to multiple circuits. You can't just look at a couple of pages because there are interconnections that continue across different pages and sections.
I'm assuming the battery is dead now as a result of the drain, although it is entirely possible that the battery itself is the problem and there is nothing else wrong. If the car has the original battery it wouldn't be surprising at all. But, until there are some valid current readings to look at there is no way to tell from here.
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Old 06-18-2005, 01:50 PM   #15
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battery is brand new under a few months
also the fuse that i found to be the problem with the check light was sbf no 5
but i just went and hooked up the multimeter to the ma setting and when i pulled out that fuse i didn't have a drop in the readings it sat steady at around 27 ma
this was with a jumper box hooked up, without it hooked up it was around 23ma and never moved.
im almost positive i found the problem and that it lies within my mass air flow sensor
im getting to the point of where its going to end up having to go to subaru AGAIN and i really don't feel like dropping it off there
Matt
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:37 PM   #16
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Those current readings are perfectly normal. If that is what the car is drawing at rest you don't have a problem.
The MAF sensor by itself CANNOT cause a drain. If any of the sensors are energized when they aren't supposed to be there is an ECU or relay issue.
Get the battery charged and have it tested, even new ones go bad sometimes. Check the alternator too, if it's not charging the battery properly it will drain as you drive and eventually go dead. With a good charged battery in place repeat the drain test and also check the voltage at the battery with the engine running, it should be 13.5-14.5 volts. Less than 13 with the engine running and no accessories turned on would point toward a bad alternator.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:52 PM   #17
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whelp did what you said
ran the car for like 45 minutes and it was 14 volts while running and 13 volts when shut off so its not the alternator
hmmmmm
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Old 06-19-2005, 10:50 PM   #18
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Did you ever figure out what was going on with the CD player??
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Old 06-19-2005, 11:00 PM   #19
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the draw wasn't that big so i think its just the fact that hte radio always has power is what the draw was
gonna have to figure something out im running out of ideas
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Old 06-20-2005, 12:50 AM   #20
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In your first post, you said it sounded like it was spinning a CD, even when ignition was off...that sounds like a drain (since it would likely be running the amp section too, if it was spinning a disk).

Are you still coming up with a dead battery, overnite??
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:29 PM   #21
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im coming up with a dead battery after like 4 hours time
its horrible its driving me crazy
someone i know has a short finder supposedly that you wave a wand over an area and if theres a short it'll tell ya, im trying to meet up with him to see if we can find something

Matt
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:41 PM   #22
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I doubt that is going to help, it doesn't sound like you have a dead short which is what that tool is for.
Have you measured the standby current again with the battery fully charged? If it's still around the 20-something milliamps you posted earlier you do NOT have a drain problem and I would then suspect the battery itself. In that case I would suggest you take the battery to a shop or store that can test it to see if it holds a charge properly, and if it doesn't then replace it. If it is bad you should be able to get a new one under warranty since it's fairly new.
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Old 06-20-2005, 07:08 PM   #23
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Like Mulder said...if you're only showing milliamps with ignition off, that battery sounds flakey. Sometimes they are bad, right off the shelf.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:07 PM   #24
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Also, even if the battery was ok to begin with, once they get fully discharged one or more times they are often toast.
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Old 06-21-2005, 12:31 AM   #25
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yeah but for the battery to get fully discharged that means i gotta have a drain somewhere
so even if i get a new battery its still going to do the same thing it did last time
because this is my second new battery besides the stock one

never got to test the wand thing but will be doing that
its deffinitely sbf no 5 thats the fuse with the draw im almost positive

Matt

ps didn't have time to check it today got to busy but thats going to be my task tomorrow
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