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Old 06-26-2016, 04:44 PM   #4626
Hyper
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to remind you, I can't manage to set the WL trimmer
as an idea I can reconnect the HFS IDC wire to a PWM output and using the ECU simulate injector duty to have one bar displayed constantly, and try to trim the WL from there - will this work?
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:54 PM   #4627
Aquamist
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Can you post a picture of your controller here. top side.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:56 AM   #4628
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:11 PM   #4629
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We have been talking iDC but you have set the controller to trigger by MPS.

This confuses me.
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:25 PM   #4630
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appologies for the confusion, Richard, I should have commented...
disregard the MPS trigger, as I have moved it on IDC from our last talk, but I didn't modify the threshholds thus I used the same picture
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Old 06-28-2016, 03:24 AM   #4631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
appologies for the confusion, Richard, I should have commented...
disregard the MPS trigger, as I have moved it on IDC from our last talk, but I didn't modify the threshholds thus I used the same picture
OK, with the iDC trigger set, you are unable to set WL?
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:40 AM   #4632
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yes, I am doing part throttle trying to hold 1-2 bars on the gauge, but they quickly increase so it is hard to catch the moment
also even with 1-2 the WL is already @ 2 PM with no effect which seems odd
my WH trimmer is @ 11am, which also seems different than what I've seen on other installations

if I output a PWM signal from the ECU to the IDC wire, will this force the system to activate with no map signal? This way I can try to set WL trimmer stationary setting the duty to any %
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:08 PM   #4633
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Your WL and WH setting is not normal.

Try this:
WL at 10am
WH at 2pm

Last edited by Aquamist; 06-29-2016 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:16 PM   #4634
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So the more I think about it the more the HFS-3 seems like it would suit my needs as is. MAP correlates roughly to G/Rev load, so it should be possible to predict when the WI system will fire on the fueling map. IDC based flow fixes the rest as the ECU will handle any compensations and the WI system will just follow along. Add a failsafe WBO2 gauge and you have a super safe setup.

Few more questions though.

Just to confirm, changing "TRIG" to "MPS" changes the "THRES" pot to a MAP sensor voltage trigger reference?

Does the controller add duty cycle based on the MAP sensor input to compensate for pressure across the injector like "BOOST COMP" did on the HSF-6? Does it do anything else with the MAP sensor input?

At what point does the system turn the pump on? Is there any protection for running the pump dry, or it does the pump even care?

Thanks!

Last edited by utc_pyro; 06-29-2016 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 06-29-2016, 10:14 AM   #4635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utc_pyro View Post
So the more I think about it the more the HFS-3 seems like it would suit my needs as is. MAP correlates roughly to G/Rev load, so it should be possible to predict when the WI system will fire on the fueling map. IDC based flow fixes the rest as the ECU will handle any compensations and the WI system will just follow along. Add a failsafe WBO2 gauge and you have a super safe setup.

Few more questions though.

Just to confirm, changing "TRIG" to "MPS" changes the "THRES" pot to a MAP sensor voltage trigger reference?

Does the controller add duty cycle based on the MAP sensor input to compensate for pressure across the injector like "BOOST COMP" did on the HSF-6? Does it do anything else with the MAP sensor input?

At what point does the system turn the pump on? Is there any protection for running the pump dry, or it does the pump even care?

Thanks!
I believe if you set the trigger to MAP, that's what it uses for the initial trigger point(yes voltage), then it follows the IDC to ramp in the water.

Although IDC is my preferred way to go for the trigger point, my last system only had map, and it drove me nuts with altitude changes...

I have the hsf4, which can alter duty cycle with another input, like IAT. It also has another failsafe input for something like a wideband.

I have mine wired in to the wideband, but I've never got around to dialing it in.


There is a float switch that will trigger a failsafe if the water level gets low. I have mind setup to map switch to non water maps if the unit is turned off, or the water level gets low, or there's a flow based failsafe trip.

You set the system trigger point with the THRES trimmer pot. Mine goes on at 30% idc.
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Old 06-29-2016, 02:20 PM   #4636
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Thanks point78!

Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
I have the hsf4, which can alter duty cycle with another input, like IAT. It also has another failsafe input for something like a wideband.

I have mine wired in to the wideband, but I've never got around to dialing it in.
That's the system I was originally looking at just for that reason. It's just not as flexible as I'd like on the wideband trip point. That's why I'm now leaning toward the AEM gauge and "lower end" HFS-3. After selling my LC-1 the difference comes out as a wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
There is a float switch that will trigger a failsafe if the water level gets low. I have mind setup to map switch to non water maps if the unit is turned off, or the water level gets low, or there's a flow based failsafe trip.
So as soon as the sensor trips it puts the entire thing in failsafe? Hum... Is there some sort of delay between indicating the level is low and triggering failsafe? I'm planning on using the "green connector" method to drop to the "low IAM" tables, so that would get rather annoying. When your low gas light comes on your car doesn’t go into limp mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFS-3 Manual Page 2
The system retrieves the fuel flow (IDC) and manifold pressure signals (MPS) from the engine management system as the prime source to control the flow of water.
This statement from the first page of the manual is why I want to know if the HFS-3 is doing any other MAP based compensations. Maybe Aquimist could chime in on that.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:05 PM   #4637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utc_pyro View Post
Thanks point78

So as soon as the sensor trips it puts the entire thing in failsafe? Hum... Is there some sort of delay between indicating the level is low and triggering failsafe? I'm planning on using the "green connector" method to drop to the "low IAM" tables, so that would get rather annoying. When your low gas light comes on your car doesn’t go into limp mode.

.


This statement from the first page of the manual is why I want to know if the HFS-3 is doing any other MAP based compensations. Maybe Aquimist could chime in on that.

It's never been a issue for me. I don't even remember the last time I filled up? I have a 2 gallon tank. I do go full throttle most times when I drive though, just not for long periods, on ramps, etc.

I don't exactly remember, but I think I've seen my "low fluid" light flicker a bit before going steady. And I don't think it tripped the failsafe untl it was on steady. I believe there is some delay counter, but you can't adjust it.

You can adjust the delay on the flow meters failsafe activation though
Im sure he'll chime in. I think the 4 can blend both MAP & IDC- and a few other things, but the 3 can only use MAP for initial trigger...
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:32 PM   #4638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
Your WL and WH setting is not normal.

Try this:
WL at 10am
WH at 2pm


I did some more tests today, I connected HFS green wire (IDC) to ECU controlled PWM output, this gives me an opportunity to play with the IDC signal and observe the system's work
I raised the duty from 0 to 100% watching the gauge - based on my observations it follows IDC nicely, and at about 75-80% starts spraying at full force

These are the settings I settled with for now



here is a video of how its working, the B LED is always on, both orange LEDs stay off during injection period - this is normal, right?

could you confirm it works as designed now? sorry for poor quality, blackberry aren't known for their cameras

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th9e...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by Hyper; 07-01-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:33 PM   #4639
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You can look at your controller board too.

Green light blinking with the idc signal.
Amber will light up when system first activates. This is how you can see where you have the THRES set at.
Red starts to flash then steady as iDC approaches & hits 95%
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Old 07-03-2016, 08:33 AM   #4640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post

could you confirm it works as designed now? sorry for poor quality, blackberry aren't known for their cameras

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th9e...ature=youtu.be
If the both yellow leds stays off while you are on boost and spraying, the failsafe is now set correctly.
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:04 AM   #4641
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yep, finally got it working and loving it, thank you for your help and patience, Richard

no more knock, but slower spool and I did loose some power, but I hope I can get it back with leaner AFR and more timing to compensate for the later burn, wonder if it can be had without raising boost
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Old 07-22-2016, 01:52 PM   #4642
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It's much, much safer to raise boost than timing or AFR. If you are at the limits of the turbo, seek to raise timing, then afr to squeeze the last bit of power out of the setup.
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Old 07-27-2016, 02:47 PM   #4643
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My hfs3 system was professionally installed by Lachute performance, so I did not do the install myself.

They wired the necessary failsafe wires, from the hfs3 module to the ecu. They informed me, that if I turn off the hfs3 system at the gauge, that the failsafes from the hfs3 module might still be active and cut boost/go to safe mode while aquamist spray is turned off. They said in order to really turn off the hfs3 AND the system's failsafes, that I had to disconnect the hfs3 wires from the ecu and return it to the oem wiring setup.

This conflicts with info I have from another aquamist owner who says turning off the system at the gauge also turns off the hfs3 failsafes.

Please let me know which is correct. Does turning off the hfs3 at the gauge turn off the failsafes? Or must I also disconnect the hfs3 wires from the ecu?
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:08 PM   #4644
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no
turning off the HFS3 at the gauge forces the system to go into failsafe mode, if installed and setup correctly
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:59 PM   #4645
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What do you mean turn off the fail-safe? Also what ECU are you wired into?

I have an HFS-3 kit wired into a Link G4 ECU. The fail-safe wire is just a 5 volt output from the HFS controller that can be set to be either 5 volts or 0 volts when the fail safe is active.

In my setup the fail-safe from the HFS-3 controller goes to zero for any fail-safe and when I turn the system off on the gauge front. My ECU interprets that as "I need to switch to my low boost/timing map".

I'm not sure how your system is wired up but another method is to use the contact output on the HFS-3 controller to interrupt the signal to the BCS to limit boot pressure to wastegate spring pressure. Without really knowing how yours is wired up or what it trying to accomplish, I cant help you with troubleshooting.


Let us know what fail-safe you used and how you implemented it.
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:08 PM   #4646
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Here is a complete truth table shows how the HFS3/4 aquamist failsafe works under different jumper links and gauge switch.

It should clarify all uncertainties.



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Old 08-09-2016, 02:19 PM   #4647
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:23 PM   #4648
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Richard, can the flow failsafe be setup to ignore a low flow for part throttle spray?
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:26 PM   #4649
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If you set up the failsafe following the instructions the failsafe should not activate under part throttle conditions. Remember this is idc based injection. If you have injections set to start at say 29% IDC and that corresponds to 3 bars on the flow gauge, you set the low flow fail safe below 3 bars. Throttle position should not have any effect on this. For erroneous failsafe activations you may have to tweak the failsafe time delay.

Edit: You can always turn the low flow failsafe trimmer fully CCW to disable the low flow failsafe but then you lose blocked nozzle detection.
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Old 08-09-2016, 04:35 PM   #4650
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