Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday July 14, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2020, 05:24 PM   #1
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default UPDATE negative ign timing under load?, extremely low power under 2500k, no codes

I recently picked up an 06 baja non turbo, 5speed, 148k miles bone stock. I have super low power pulling out of hills, until it reaches about 2500 rpm then it takes off. This only happens once the engine is warm. It runs fine when cold. I have changed, plugs, knock sensor, map sensor, re-calibrated tps, cleaned egr, checked fuel pressure, pulled the fuel pump and checked tank, checked vacuum, checked cats with heatgun and also disconnected exhaust, No codes and no pending codes. I have a reader that shows live data and everything looks normal to me, but i am no tuning expert. The headgaskets were done by a dealer 15k ago before i purchased the car. I have also added more grounding straps, I have a new coil on order. I am totally lost I have read post after post and am about out of options. I hate to keep throwing parts at it.

Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by parlusk; 06-29-2020 at 01:59 AM.
parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-29-2020, 01:58 AM   #2
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 03:55 AM   #3
bobjr94
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6176
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy,WA
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 04 wrb STi
85 wrb BRAT

Default

A bad front O2 sensor can cause power loss and issues like that when hot but not when cold. I might try that if the coil does not help.

After that I would pull the timing cover, make sure they didn't get the belt off 1 tooth when they did the heads. The passenger side head has no cam sensor, so it wouldn't set a code if it was not set right.
bobjr94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 12:49 AM   #4
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjr94 View Post
A bad front O2 sensor can cause power loss and issues like that when hot but not when cold. I might try that if the coil does not help.

After that I would pull the timing cover, make sure they didn't get the belt off 1 tooth when they did the heads. The passenger side head has no cam sensor, so it wouldn't set a code if it was not set right.

Man you nailed this one. New coil didn't help, so i pulled the covers and this is what i found (pics below) I am almost sure its off 1 tooth. I cannot believe it, the dealership got it one tooth off. I am going to go ahead and do a complete water pump and timing belt job. I am still confused as to why it ran great cold but oh well. I cannot figure the image thing out so here is the link to the outback forum where i posted them...

https://www.subaruoutback.org/thread...-codes.522629/
parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 03:59 AM   #5
bobjr94
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6176
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy,WA
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 04 wrb STi
85 wrb BRAT

Default

I would guess if the cam timing was off it could cause an egr effect if it was late, or an increase in compression if it was early. Probably enough to cause engine knock when the motor is hot, but not when the motors isn't warmed up.
bobjr94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 08:40 AM   #6
Elbert Bass
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 283429
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Down yonder.
Vehicle:
2016 Fuji Sunfire 03
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjr94 View Post
I would guess if the cam timing was off it could cause an egr effect if it was late, or an increase in compression if it was early. Probably enough to cause engine knock when the motor is hot, but not when the motors isn't warmed up.
It's just the difference between open loop (cold) and closed loop (hot). When knock is detected timing is retarded - EGR is too slow to affect the charge temp. Additionally it depends on which side is out of time since SOHC only has a single cam position sensor on the left bank. If the right bank is out of time the ECM doesn't know it.
Elbert Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 10:10 AM   #7
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
It's just the difference between open loop (cold) and closed loop (hot). When knock is detected timing is retarded - EGR is too slow to affect the charge temp. Additionally it depends on which side is out of time since SOHC only has a single cam position sensor on the left bank. If the right bank is out of time the ECM doesn't know it.

To me the right cam is the one i think is off.I just shot a video showing this and will update it as soon as it uploads.
parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 10:11 AM   #8
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 01:49 PM   #9
parlusk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516183
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

Well. After a bit of research and so comments I found that my timing belt was on correctly. The left cam (facing front) Shows being half a tooth off, this is normal. So I put everything back together and to no surprise the car is running the same. I have ordered a 16pin to usb so that i can romraider and get logs to better see what is going on. I will keep everyone updated. Thanks again for all the help!
parlusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 11:22 PM   #10
Elbert Bass
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 283429
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Down yonder.
Vehicle:
2016 Fuji Sunfire 03
Silver

Default

It's possible your knock sensor is bad, or been installed wrong or damaged by being overtightened You will need to look at data to see if you are getting a knock signal.
Elbert Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.