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Old 06-03-2009, 12:20 PM   #176
mla163
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Nice example Josh. I was definitely on the outside line too. There were points when I was flat out for a good amount of time. I hit the top end of 2nd on the uphill slalom. It was definitely a fast course.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:28 PM   #177
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Yep, lots of time to be made up there. The general rule I've been told is that distance is greater than speed, ESPECIALLY in the slow stuff.

And you were right Mark...along with most of the STU crowd looking at the pics. But then again, these were early runs. My pic above, and your pic Mark, were from Run 2. There were still 2 runs to get it right, which you may have.

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Old 06-03-2009, 12:57 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by piknockout View Post

...along with most of the STU crowd looking at the pics.

*runs back to look at the pictures*



Yep, thanks for the analysis Josh.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:11 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
Yep, lots of time to be made up there. The general rule I've been told is that distance is greater than speed, ESPECIALLY in the slow stuff.

And you were right Mark...along with most of the STU crowd looking at the pics. But then again, these were early runs. My pic above, and your pic Mark, were from Run 2. There were still 2 runs to get it right, which you may have.

My body roll>yoar body roll. I think fatter sways are in my future.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:23 PM   #180
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You mean stiffer springs?

<---600f/500r with 24mm FSB/22mm RSB

Sway bars aren't that fat. But I guess it depends on what you're running.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:32 PM   #181
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And don't forget stiffer springs.

<---600f/500r
I'd need coilovers first. They are on my list under "Things I want and can't afford".

I'll probably go 27F/24R. Big bars, little springs instead of little bars, little springs.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:39 PM   #182
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Bigger bars on the soft springs should definitely help.


At least your body roll isn't this bad.

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Old 06-03-2009, 01:57 PM   #183
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I never thought about using those pictures to compare the lines people take. I will look at those pictures alot differently now.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:05 PM   #184
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But before that, use your off heat to see what the faster drivers are doing on course and try to mimic it for your runs. Also use it to see what similar cars in different classes are doing. Watching Olsen and a few others, you could tell that they were all taking the tight line in the showcase. I also noticed that the BSP STi guys in the first heat were on the limiter early in the two 3rd gear spots, so I knew not to even try it and go straight to 3rd gear in those spots. Use that time to your advantage.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:11 PM   #185
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I noticed this last night... definitely too far away.

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Old 06-03-2009, 07:45 PM   #186
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I love the runway we have going here.

The MaxQ is in the mail, I'm told... so any differences in line should be much easier to catch from here on out. Thanks for the heads up though, I can clearly imagine in my head how off my line was.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:08 PM   #187
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I love the runway we have going here.

The MaxQ is in the mail, I'm told... so any differences in line should be much easier to catch from here on out. Thanks for the heads up though, I can clearly imagine in my head how off my line was.
Not really. Its tough to compare lines using Maxq alone. Satellite shift and other factors usually shift the plotted course maps from run to run. Ill be able to help u analyze data if need be. What Hz model did u get?
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:12 PM   #188
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Not really. Its tough to compare lines using Maxq alone. Satellite shift and other factors usually shift the plotted course maps from run to run. Ill be able to help u analyze data if need be. What Hz model did u get?
This one

http://www.maxqdata.com/VeQtr.htm

20Hz. I am cautiously optimistic I will get it in time for FL so we can figure out how it works...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:26 PM   #189
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I can help you test data as well...put it in my car when you're not running.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:37 PM   #190
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If the heats work out that way, sure. More data = good. Normally Ben/Kevin will be stealing it during STU heat.
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:45 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
This one

http://www.maxqdata.com/VeQtr.htm

20Hz. I am cautiously optimistic I will get it in time for FL so we can figure out how it works...
Hot Damn...somebody is Ballin!
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:04 AM   #192
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Hot Damn...somebody is Ballin!
You're not cool unless you're running 20 Hz...

<----- Has data acq envy
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:09 AM   #193
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Thanks for the picture analysis Josh. Is that the sequence coming down the hill toward the showcase? (The "Downhill S" as John put it above) If so, that's one spot where I made up a ton of time on my last run. I still don't know if I was as tight as you guys, but I was def moving through there much faster, less lifting, less braking.
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:59 AM   #194
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That is nice John! I would be glad to help you out with some data.


Travis, those pictures are from the end of the downhill "S" going into the showcase turn. I think that's where you made up a lot of time vs. your previous runs and I also think that picture was from an early run. I'm also guessing (didn't watch the run though) that you made time going up the hill as well. In the runs I saw, both of you were lifting way too much going through those "walloms". You put down a really nice time in the end, nice work!
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:21 AM   #195
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AI @ Fedex 06/07/09

Preface: John was kind enough to let me borrow the car for this event, although he did get a pretty sweet Saturn wagon out of the deal. I found out the night before the event that the clunk noise from the front end was the driver's side end-link which was no longer connected to the sway bar. Both the bushing and bolt were gone. I made a phone call to Mark (mla163) and he brought a stock endlink with him so that I could replace it in the parking lot before tech. Later that night while consuming a large amount of alcohol, I got in touch with my roommate (Acquacow) and he informed me that he had a spare set of whiteline endlinks in the garage.

06/07/09 AM: The morning was off to a bad start for me. I woke up extremely tired and somewhat dehydrated from heavy consumption the night before. After an unknown length of fumbling around the garage, I find the whiteline endlinks, with hardware. Sweet. I load up the car with an absolutely insane amount of tools, tires, and boxes that John likes to keep with it like one labeled "headache", and proceed to the event.

Once at the event, the tire switching goes smoothly. The 235 AD08s are equal in width to the 245 Z1s I pulled off the car, although they seem to have a more defined shoulder. Could be the tire, the shaving, or the fact that the Z1s have already seen quite a bit of autocross this year, wearing down their shoulders.

Endlink repair/replacement does not go as smoothly. While I got other stuff ready on the car, Mark crawled under it and tried to bolt up one of the Whiteline pieces. No luck. First it was missing a washer, then when we added one from another spare, the length of the bolt became too short. I got the nut to bite, but the instant I tightened it, it stripped the threads right out of it. So giving in, I installed the stock one and went off to tech. Amazingly, nobody at tech got hit in the face with the hood, despite the missing "OMG hood struts" warning.

STX was running 3rd heat. The course looked fast, but unfortunately I had forgotten most of it in the 6 hours I spent standing in the sun between the course walk and actually running.

First run:
Good launch, which is unusual for me. I'm once again reminded of my desire to modify the handbrake on the car so I can reach it without contorting my body to avoid the shoulder bolster on the Sparcos. After the first turn, the back end sliding around like crazy. The feeling is similar to breaking in the Dunlops - long sweeping grip is ok, but transitions send the car sliding all over the place, only the Yokos seem to have less grip in the sweepers. Fighting the car, I manage a clean run, but there is definitely a lot of time to be made up. 65.8

Second run: Not so great a launch (bogged), but an improvement. The tires still have no grip. I manage a 65.0. Checking the pressures after then run, all 4 tires have gone up 4psi. I drop them back down to 39/34.

Third run:
The tires feel like they are starting to have some grip. Turn-in grip is still not there... something is up. I'm beginning to wonder if the front sway bar was disconnected last event. Turning into the long straight at the top of the lot, the tires just squeal and the car pushes wide. It feels like I'm on all seasons for a second. The end of the straight gets very hairy. Mashing the brakes kicks ABS, and the car feels like its having an epileptic seizure. Even though I'm braking in a straight line it wants to spin left, then right, then left. I keep it under control, but it throws my line off into the next corner. 64.1

Fourth run:
Grip feels similar to the Third run, but I'm off on my line through the section closest to the stadium. The tires are still protesting a lot on initial turn in. The run is otherwise similar to the previous run and I manage a 64.2

The 64.1 lands me in 1st by 1+ seconds, so it wasn't a total failure. I was definitely further back from the STU crowd than I have been at previous events in the car. But I'm still wondering... was the swaybar connected or not at WDCR last weekend? If so, maybe more spring/less bar is the way to go? Or maybe its the new tires throwing me way off? Wish we had some more time to test and figure this out.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:37 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProDarwin View Post
But I'm still wondering... was the swaybar connected or not at WDCR last weekend?
I gotta think no, which makes me a lot more inclined to experiment w/ some 600 lb fronts and a 24mm adjustable front bar. Then again, you PAX'd 17th with the car like that, maybe we should just disconnect the front bar?

For the folks reading along, my half assed hypothesis is that the front end has a bit more grip than last year with the +2 caster, didn't lose anything going from -4 to -3.5, and may not need the big front bar crutch the way it did before. Further, I'm not really sure how stiff the Cobb front bar *really* is... 23.5mm might have been high. A 24mm solid Whiteline is, well, 24mm. And if the car sucks at 24mm it can be put to the stiff setting which is supposed to be 26mm. Hopefully we can get roughly the same roll stiffness with less wheel lift?

So the next few weekends are set (for me at least, not necessarily the car):

6-13/14: Finger Lakes Tour
6-20/21: DC ProSolo
6-28: Philly @ CBP (my wife is working that day, woot)
7-5: vegas (not autox)
7-12: DC @ Fedex
7-19: off
7-25/26: Toledo ProSolo
8-2: DC @ Fedex
8-9: off
8-16: DC @ Fedex

We are probably going to run the Dunlops at Finger Lakes since the Yokos are still an unknown for us and the Z1's are a known quantity. Between FL and DC, there should be enough time to get em scrubbed in so that I can get a better handle on them at DC and then Philly the weekend after.

Then there's two weeks between the CBP event and the next WDCR event, which may be enough time to get another swaybar and set of front springs on there.

Other mental notes:
* Check before each event to make sure the endlinks are actually, you know, endlinked.
* Carry spare endlinks.

Last edited by Butt Dyno; 06-09-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:55 PM   #197
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Blue lock tite is always good, especially if you're always removing them...even if you forgot to tighten a bolt with some blue lock tite residue, it would probably not fall off completely!


I'm glad you're liking the added caster, i'm feeling the same way about my front end. I already have some 550lb springs for the front(450f/500r currenlty) and i'm seriously considering the cobb or hotckis front bar (lighter and softer). I know it feels fantastic, but i think there's more grip available with a slightly smaller bar than 27mm.


Most of all...with my new Vorshlag/AST shocks, the ride is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better i'm sure i could stand some hefty springs and not even notice, i honestly like the ride comfort better than the stock shocks, which i've had on and off several times this year.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #198
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Blue lock tite is always good, especially if you're always removing them...even if you forgot to tighten a bolt with some blue lock tite residue, it would probably not fall off completely!
Quick note, I replaced the front endlinks tonight, and blue lock-tite was used on all the bolts.
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:01 PM   #199
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I think this pic confirms it.

AI event: minimal body roll, rear tire is already off the ground (confirming I had grip at that point)


WDCR event previous weekend: massive body roll, pissing dog stance (although more grip also)

Last edited by ProDarwin; 06-10-2009 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 01:33 PM   #200
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I would say it's still not clear whether it was disconnected at WDCR. In the first pic, you're driving through the slalom and should be at least holding the gas steady through there. In the second pic, you're braking and turning coming into the showcase turn. At that angle, it would make the front driver corner load up even more and appear to have more roll/rear tire lift. Just my thoughts.
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