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Old 07-03-2004, 01:05 PM   #1
Davenow
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Default What does it take?? 200WHP from an RS

My buddy is looking at buying a GC8 RS. His goal is 200whp He would LIKE 210 or so, but will be happy with 200whp.

Can it be done without major $$$$$$$??
We figure the lighter GC8 will be VERY peppy with 200whp.
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Old 07-03-2004, 01:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: What does it take?? 200WHP from an RS

Quote:
Originally posted by Davenow
My buddy is looking at buying a GC8 RS. His goal is 200whp He would LIKE 210 or so, but will be happy with 200whp.

Can it be done without major $$$$$$$??.
NO!
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Old 07-03-2004, 01:51 PM   #3
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yes with a turbo

Jay
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:07 PM   #4
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BWAHAHAHHAHHAHHAA!

Sorry I had to laugh or cry. This thread has been posted so many times it's getting to be a joke.
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:11 PM   #5
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I wanted that as well. However it is only possible if you do a EJ20 swap, and then start moding. Ive heard RS's with about 170 whp, and that was with cams, and heads, and tits, and everything. I'm going to do stage 2, plus cams, which should get me about 160+ whp. but thats about it with an RS. So if he wants that much power, tell him to do a swap.

Steven
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crash477
Ive heard RS's with about 170 whp, and that was with cams, and heads, and tits, Steven
Hey Steven,
If you can give me an RS with these, I'll take two of them. Woohoo!

Remember the key words he asks above, "Can it be done without major $$$$$$$??"

And yes, this has been asked soooo many times.
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:59 PM   #7
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Dave, Dave, Dave... You've been around here long enough to know how to SEARCH, man!

This has been discussed a bazillions times, specifically just last week with a nearly identical subject line: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ghlight=200whp

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Old 07-03-2004, 04:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen
Dave, Dave, Dave... You've been around here long enough to know how to SEARCH, man!

This has been discussed a bazillions times, specifically just last week with a nearly identical subject line: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ghlight=200whp

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Yeah Pat!
Here's a long one from back-n-da-day.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=200
Although, I think this thread is at the crank rather than the wheels.
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Old 07-03-2004, 08:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen
Dave, Dave, Dave... You've been around here long enough to know how to SEARCH, man!

Yeah I know.. I suck
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Old 07-03-2004, 10:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Thomas
NO!
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Old 07-04-2004, 06:45 AM   #11
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by Honkey3k
????
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Old 07-04-2004, 09:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Davenow
...His goal is 200whp He would LIKE 210 or so, but will be happy with 200whp.

Can it be done without major $$$$$$$??
...
Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Thomas
NO!
Quote:
Originally posted by Honkey3k
Dumb graphic illustrating that I am clueless
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Old 07-04-2004, 12:07 PM   #13
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Default hm

Well, anything is possible. You can get 200 WHP from an EJ25, but to answer the question, no, it would take some money.

200 WHP is about ~ 268 flywheel hp. (if subaru trannies average 75% efficiency stock...)

You're looking at 100+ flywheel horsepower. It can be done...

Here's how you would do it...

lightened crank pulley (1.2lbs) , lightened flywheel (13lbs) would gain you _back_ about 17 whp. more can be realized with a lightened pulley SET. (17whp is about 22.7 flywheel hp)

port and polish, could possible gain 30 hp or more if done well...

excessive barely driveable cams with power to about 9,000 grand
you can grab for $400 off rallitek a valve train kit capable of letting your motor rev REALLY frickin high.... to be able to withstand that 9,000 RPM powerband...

exhaust (can get you as much as 37 flywheel hp) equal length headers, ect. ect.

So even without induction, I don't know why it's not possible. I hate the fact that everyone just assumes you should ALWAYS just go grab a EJ207 and drop it in for performance. Seriously, you'd spend as much buying all the **** to put that in off ebay as you would doing the stuff for the EJ25.

Cam: weld, regrind, and heat treat from delta cam in tacoma would run you $120 for all your cams
Flywheel: there's a place in albany/oregon that will shave and drill flywheels on a CNC to whatever weight you want for $50. or grab a 13 lbs one made of good alloy from rallitek for a couple hundred.
Pulley: the pulley I talked about 1.2lbs, is less than $150 off rallitek.
Shim and valtrain kit: $400 off rallitek
exhaust: you could grab a whole borla exhaust for less than $800

I could keep going. I think I might get flamed for this, but hey - N/A builds aren't hard.
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Old 07-04-2004, 12:57 PM   #14
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avo kit from rallitek.com brings you to around 212whp IIRC
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Old 07-05-2004, 12:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: hm

Quote:
Originally posted by JonofScio
Well, anything is possible. You can get 200 WHP from an EJ25, but to answer the question, no, it would take some money.

200 WHP is about ~ 268 flywheel hp. (if subaru trannies average 75% efficiency stock...)

You're looking at 100+ flywheel horsepower. It can be done...

Here's how you would do it...

lightened crank pulley (1.2lbs) , lightened flywheel (13lbs) would gain you _back_ about 17 whp. more can be realized with a lightened pulley SET. (17whp is about 22.7 flywheel hp)

port and polish, could possible gain 30 hp or more if done well...

excessive barely driveable cams with power to about 9,000 grand
you can grab for $400 off rallitek a valve train kit capable of letting your motor rev REALLY frickin high.... to be able to withstand that 9,000 RPM powerband...

exhaust (can get you as much as 37 flywheel hp) equal length headers, ect. ect.

So even without induction, I don't know why it's not possible. I hate the fact that everyone just assumes you should ALWAYS just go grab a EJ207 and drop it in for performance. Seriously, you'd spend as much buying all the **** to put that in off ebay as you would doing the stuff for the EJ25.

Cam: weld, regrind, and heat treat from delta cam in tacoma would run you $120 for all your cams
Flywheel: there's a place in albany/oregon that will shave and drill flywheels on a CNC to whatever weight you want for $50. or grab a 13 lbs one made of good alloy from rallitek for a couple hundred.
Pulley: the pulley I talked about 1.2lbs, is less than $150 off rallitek.
Shim and valtrain kit: $400 off rallitek
exhaust: you could grab a whole borla exhaust for less than $800

I could keep going. I think I might get flamed for this, but hey - N/A builds aren't hard.
You cannot add #'s together to make it accurate

All those listed parts will add power in different areas of the power band, what adds low end power may affect top end power, and vice-versa. 200 WHP is achievable with forced induction. My RS-t with a TD-04L from a WRX on a custom kit put down 201 WHP and 230lbft. That was pushing 10 psi on otherwise stock engine. With a VF-22 I finally saw 237/266
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:03 AM   #16
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Lightened drivetrain componets lose their ability to "gain" HP in higher gears. Their largest benifit is in first gear, when acceleration is the highest (people usually use the gear closest to 1:1 on the dyno). If the drive train is not accelerating, the less inertia does not make any difference, where as in first gear the acceleration is the greatest (well actually the greatest acceleratin is free reving the engine, but that is sort of pointless except for rev matching).

F = M A, blah blah blah

cheeRS,

Greg
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:31 AM   #17
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What, no price listing on headwork?

NA builds have diminishing returns, plain and simple. Unless your religion doesn't permit it, forced induction is the way to go for at-or-over base WRX power levels.

Jon, if you can get my Legacy to 200 civilized NA whp for less than $3000, you're welcome to it.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:20 AM   #18
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Question Re: hm

Quote:
Originally posted by JonofScio
Cam: weld, regrind, and heat treat from delta cam in tacoma would run you $120 for all your cams

Hey Jon,

Are you sure that DeltaCams would give some gains on a 2.5RS in N/A form? I ask because I had some cams done for my XT6 and only gained a tiny bit of horsepower above 5500rpm. I had to advance my ignition considerably to get back some lost hp and torque. Even with my ignition advanced all the way with no knock, I still had a considerable loss of low end torque compared to my stock cams. I know the turbocharged 1.8ltr Scoobies supposedly had nice gains throughout their entire powerband.

Here's a dynograph plot with before DeltaCams, after Delta Cams installed and after fuel/ignition adjustment with Delta Cams on my XT6. I'd love to see a before and after Delta Cam install on a 2.5RS. Perhaps my car is just sick (in a bad way).


Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 07-05-2004 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:50 AM   #19
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It's always easier to get a turbo engine with the same amount of money to a higher Hp than an N/A engine with the same amount of money.

But I still believe in N/A builds... just between intake, electrical, exhaust, head work, and cams, I don't know why 200whp isn't possible.

as for your XT6 man, that sucks about the cams... what grind did you get? Choosing duration, lift, and general cam specs is hard on an engine where there isn't alot of cam testing done. What's good on one engine won't show the same effects on another.
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Old 07-05-2004, 11:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonofScio
as for your XT6 man, that sucks about the cams... what grind did you get?




Sorry! I don't mean to take this off-topic.
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Old 07-05-2004, 01:08 PM   #21
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Hey Hondaslayer, I might be doing the wrx turbo drop in on my car. The injectors, upipe, downpipe, intercooler bov and wastegate are with it. Right now on my 01 RS, I have injen cai, borlas, rt cat, and greddy cat back. Now when you did this what else did you need save exhaust manifold computer gagues etc?? Just curious, and I have been conducting searches too just nice to get someone who has done its opinion.
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Old 07-06-2004, 07:28 AM   #22
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"port and polish, could possible gain 30 hp or more if done well..."

is this true, seems like a pretty hight gain and people dont talk about doing it that much
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Old 07-06-2004, 08:16 AM   #23
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my boss' dad owns a head shop (no, for cars! really! :P ) that is pretty much world renowned. If you get into the really expensive stuff (like a $1G job, a full on Stage 3 port) you could get about that much power out of the head. But that's like full on head work. Valve job and porting and polishing.
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Old 07-06-2004, 03:27 PM   #24
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I'd say, it would be easier to find a 12b. It would be a terrible swap, but it woudl be worth it.
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Old 07-06-2004, 03:37 PM   #25
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nitrous oxide
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