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Old 08-08-2019, 12:41 PM   #101
Sid03SVT
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Originally Posted by thenoodler View Post
Letís say they update it for 2021.
Starting base price 37k- 38k.
2.4 - 2.5l w/ direct injection. 350HP, combined 20mpg, 6 speed manual,
0-60 4.8 secs when launched from 5k rpms.
Those specs have to be sufficient to carry the car for the following 5-7 years at least. I donít see it.
Although a laughable metric; the S209 hits 60 in 4.4/4.5 (depending on rag) with 340/315 out of an EJ25; I'm willing to bet an STi with an FA24 tuned for it will at least match that time, if not best it.

Show me the list of STi competitors planned for the next 5-7 years. The only car that comes to mind is the next gen Golf R, and it takes a very different approach.
Show me the list of cars on the market/coming up that are more mechanical than digital.

That's the market for the STi; a car you drive, rather than a car that drives you.

For EV comparison, the AWD tesla with a 0-60 at 4.4 has a base price 10k more (48k, and it won't get cheaper any time soon.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
having owned a 92 impreza, that car would be an experience, to say the least, with 300hp.
You would think that by now the EJ should've been revised to be near bulletproof Toyota reliability.. lol
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:10 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Wow chano, I could have typed that post like 5 years ago. Spot on.
I'm almost positive I've typed that exact post every year for the past seven years or so.

My mind just exploded when I told my roommate a moment ago that I had an STI ELEVEN years ago. He has a 2005 WRX he keeps tuning and modding and I'm like, "Just get a 2005 STI, put in the Android Auto/Apple Carplay HU, sprinkle some hopes and dreams on it, and BAM! You got yourself a 2020 STI."
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:31 PM   #104
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When that STI coupe rendering made the rounds years ago I was certain Subaru was going to go that route. When the BRZ was in development stages I was certain Subaru was going to go that route. When Toyota announced the twins will continue on I was certain....
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:58 PM   #105
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Although a laughable metric; the S209 hits 60 in 4.4/4.5 (depending on rag) with 340/315 out of an EJ25; I'm willing to bet an STi with an FA24 tuned for it will at least match that time, if not best it.
That seems like a pretty big increase from the supposed 5.7 second times of the 310/300 ish 2018 STi.

Has anyone hashed out why the current generation tests so much slower than the 2015s despite little weight gain?
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:18 PM   #106
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That seems like a pretty big increase from the supposed 5.7 second times of the 310/300 ish 2018 STi.

Has anyone hashed out why the current generation tests so much slower than the 2015s despite little weight gain?
If you actually look at the older 04 STI, 0-60 was around mid 4's and 1/4 mile was 13.2.

Same engine, just 200lbs lighter, lighter wheels, and smaller brake set up.
The 18-19 wheels are 28 effin pounds. Tires are heavier. 04 BBS I believe were 17 lbs?

Weight makes a big difference.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

look at the 2006 lol.


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/suba...ubaru-wrx-sti/

Look at how the 04 was relative to it's competitors. (evo really is only compared)
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:22 PM   #107
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Also Brembos got upgraded, right? To 6-pot/piston? Is Electronic DCCD any heavier? I assume not.
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:45 PM   #108
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Some people fail to realize that the STI is so iconic that a chunk of its sales come from enthusiasts who've always wanted an STI. If I'd NEVER owned an STI, the current model would be the one to get.

Unfortunately this forum has a lot of old-timers, many of whom have already been there and done that, myself included.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if somehow the next gen is actually all-new and has two variants. I still attest that the WRX should have two variants while the STI should be a lightweight coupe. I think the world is ready.
Eyesore Standard, CVT/DCT only, e-diffs, battery assist/hybrid.........winter is coming.
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #109
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EJ in STi. Let's count the model years now.

2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
2019
2020

Laughable. No need to change if suckers keep buying and do not demand a new product.
And yet the RS is DEAD. EVO is DEAD and the STI outsells the next rival, Golf R. Laughable indeed. Here is to many, many more years of success.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:05 PM   #110
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anyone know when orders will be taken for 2020 models? In the previous years, when did they allow for orders on the next year model?
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:14 PM   #111
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If you actually look at the older 04 STI, 0-60 was around mid 4's and 1/4 mile was 13.2.

Same engine, just 200lbs lighter, lighter wheels, and smaller brake set up.
The 18-19 wheels are 28 effin pounds. Tires are heavier. 04 BBS I believe were 17 lbs?

Weight makes a big difference.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

look at the 2006 lol.


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/suba...ubaru-wrx-sti/

Look at how the 04 was relative to it's competitors. (evo really is only compared)
Based on my experience drag racing, I'd expect 200lbs to equate to about .2 ET differences, and it seems much more than that (it shows up in trap too). I guess it could just be heavy/large wheels, but do you think that the loss of mechanical center diff made a difference?
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:17 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by super_subie View Post
anyone know when orders will be taken for 2020 models? In the previous years, when did they allow for orders on the next year model?
Typically May orders for mid-to-late summer deliveries. Looks like this year, though, orders will be much later. Possibly early next month, with late October deliveries.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:35 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Typically May orders for mid-to-late summer deliveries. Looks like this year, though, orders will be much later. Possibly early next month, with late October deliveries.
I'm guessing they're switching to October releases like all of the global architecture cars for the new one to come out next October like all the new gens
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:38 PM   #114
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Typically May orders for mid-to-late summer deliveries. Looks like this year, though, orders will be much later. Possibly early next month, with late October deliveries.
yeah...that's what im afraid of...having to wait like 6 months to get a car that has minimum changes
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:22 PM   #115
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anyone know when orders will be taken for 2020 models? In the previous years, when did they allow for orders on the next year model?
I reached out to a dealer last week about buying a 2019. The sales guy told me they were out of stock on 2019 STIs and wouldn't get getting anymore, but orders for 2020s would open in September. Not sure how credible his word is as he's the only one who mentioned this out of all the dealer's I've reached out to.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:01 AM   #116
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I'm barely 5' 8" and mostly torso. I tried sitting in the back of my 17 Impreza. Legs crossed. It's impossible to sit in it straight up. I found myself sorely missing my 08 Forester.

That's how I know the difference between hatch and wagon: Can I sit straight up in it? No? Hunched back hatchback. Yes? Swaggin' wagon.
https://parts.subaru.com/Subaru_2019...d-Cooling.html

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Old 08-09-2019, 10:56 AM   #117
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And yet the RS is DEAD. EVO is DEAD and the STI outsells the next rival, Golf R. Laughable indeed. Here is to many, many more years of success.
The RS is not dead. Man you Subaru butt sniffers know nothing of any other manus.
The RS, Mk1, 2, or 3, has always been made for 2 calendar years and that's that. FP makes the RS at the end of the Focus platform for 2 years and that's it until the next FMC. This keeps the car special for owners because not every vaper out there will have one. To me that's better than making McSame for 20 years. Golf R, same thing. They are switching to their new platform so the car sees a 1 year production break. It will definitely be back.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:05 AM   #118
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Since the subject is about a future WRX and STi, why hasn't this subject come up?

Subaru Could Ax 6-Spd Manual in Future WRX/STI 5-Door Hatch

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/suba...i-5-door-hatch
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:11 AM   #119
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Torque news is the equivalent of the Enquirer. Pretty sure none of their "sources" are real, they just make **** up and hope it sticks. Hard to prove that someone didn't say something.

And at the end of the day, there's no technological reason that eyesight cannot pair with a MT. Is it as perfect of a mate as the CVT? No, because it can't "change gears". But every other aspect of their eyesight safety system would work just fine on a MT. I drive a MT with the equivalent of eyesight, and it works just fine.

And considering that current STI sales are 100% MT, it's hard to see them switching to 0% MT. Manufacturers that are dropping the MT have been offering AT and MT simultaneously and seeing MT take rates dropping.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:21 AM   #120
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Torque news is the equivalent of the Enquirer. Pretty sure none of their "sources" are real, they just make **** up and hope it sticks. Hard to prove that someone didn't say something.
It's funny that people keep on repeating that line, but I don't think they get enough credit when they do.

Like... https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2887785

Crap load of people dismissed it... I honestly won't be so quick to dismiss their news, but you do have to wait to see if it pans out (like most news out there).

--kC
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:23 AM   #121
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Eyesore Standard, CVT/DCT only, e-diffs, battery assist/hybrid.........winter is coming.
Naaah. Not even Subaru could keep all of that affordable enough to make sense. When the STI starts at over $40k, it will be The End.

I'd guess pretty confidently that the only new big mechanical innovation the next STI will get will be the engine. I hate to speculate about transmission. CVT would be a heartbreak (or death, if it's the only option) and DCT might end up being the only option if they went that route.

As an insufferable manual-only guy, my feelings on a DCT-only STI are actually neutral. I'd never buy an STI anyhow, unless Subaru somehow bungled the WRX terribly while knocking the STI out of the park. I think the STI's most legit purpose any more is on a paved race track, where DCT makes the most sense to the most people. So whatever.

Hybrid.. considering Subaru is only a half decade behind the curve on hybridization, they're still probably another 5 years away from taking a big leap to sports hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
The RS is not dead. Man you Subaru butt sniffers know nothing of any other manus.
The RS, Mk1, 2, or 3, has always been made for 2 calendar years and that's that. FP makes the RS at the end of the Focus platform for 2 years and that's it until the next FMC. This keeps the car special for owners because not every vaper out there will have one. To me that's better than making McSame for 20 years. Golf R, same thing. They are switching to their new platform so the car sees a 1 year production break. It will definitely be back.
It does feel a little less likely that we'll get it again though, what with all of Ford's cars being gone now. We never saw the first couple RS's, so unless Ford felt this last one was a smashing success in the US and really aided their brand and expanded their customer base, I wouldn't count on seeing the next one.

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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Since the subject is about a future WRX and STi, why hasn't this subject come up?

Subaru Could Ax 6-Spd Manual in Future WRX/STI 5-Door Hatch

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/suba...i-5-door-hatch
Manual + eyesight incompatibility has been discussed variously several times in the forums, and also Torque News is a joke. They probably just look at what we're talking about in this forum and report it as news.

Some people here suggested Subaru could make STI its own spin-off brand, where they could isolate death rockets from the rest of their safe vehicle population in pursuit of super duper safety statistics. I'd like to think they'd do that before compromising the formula. Or maybe just see how all of the other manufacturers' semi-autonomous cars with manual transmissions work and do that
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:25 AM   #122
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Based on my experience drag racing, I'd expect 200lbs to equate to about .2 ET differences, and it seems much more than that (it shows up in trap too). I guess it could just be heavy/large wheels, but do you think that the loss of mechanical center diff made a difference?
The 17" BBS wheels on the 2004 STI were 15.7 lbs each. The 19" wheels on the 2018+ STI are 28.4 lbs. That's 12.7 lbs more per wheel.. a total of 50.8 lbs more rotational mass. That's certainly significant enough to impact acceleration, braking, and steering. Then factor in the extra ~200 lbs of curb weight.

The 18" BBS wheels on the 2015 STI are in the middle at 22.1 lbs. Its 0-60 was 4.6 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.2 sec (same as the 2004 STI). The brake rotors have also gotten larger (and likely heavier).

I can't find the source, but recall a MotorTrend employee stating that the 18+ models with the fully electronic center differential prevented them from being able to launch the car hard compared to the earlier models. He claimed that it would bog no matter how hard they tried to launch it.

Below are Car and Driver's performance numbers:

2004 STI
MSRP ~$32k
300 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 14.5 psi)
300 LB-FT @ 4000 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2 sec
Skidpad: 0.90 G
Braking: 60-0 111 ft (70-0 166 ft)
Curb weight: 3260 lbs
LB/HP: 10.87

2019 STI
MSRP ~$37k
310 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 16.2 psi)
290 LB-FT @ 4000-5200 rpm
0-60 mph: 5.4-5.7 sec
5-60 mpg: 6.9 sec
1/4 mile: 13.9 sec
Skidpad: 0.93 G
Braking: 60-0 109 ft (70-0 158 ft)
Curb weight: 3446 lbs
LB/HP: 11.12

The numbers have gotten worse in almost every aspect since 2004.. especially if you factor in the advancements in tire design/compound over the last 15 years.. The safety, interior, ride quality, and handling have certainly improved, but it actually accelerates slower due to the added curb weight, unsprung rotational mass, etc.

And yes.. I still bought my '19 STI despite this A performance spec sheet doesn't tell the whole story. I love my '19 STI and the raw, mechanical driving feel that it offers. That, combined with its practicality, is largely why I bought it. There aren't many cars left that offer this experience, especially as a package with AWD, 4 doors, and a manual transmission. The only other car left in that segment is the Golf R.. and most prefer that with the DSG. The manual transmission is a dying breed because they're slower, people are lazy and electric cars are the way of the future.

We won't see any real performance changes for the 2020 model. We'll have to wait and see what the 2021 STI brings. Hopefully it's at least as fast as the S209, but with a smaller price tag.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 08-09-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:29 AM   #123
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Torque news is the equivalent of the Enquirer. Pretty sure none of their "sources" are real, they just make **** up and hope it sticks. Hard to prove that someone didn't say something.

And at the end of the day, there's no technological reason that eyesight cannot pair with a MT. Is it as perfect of a mate as the CVT? No, because it can't "change gears". But every other aspect of their eyesight safety system would work just fine on a MT. I drive a MT with the equivalent of eyesight, and it works just fine.

And considering that current STI sales are 100% MT, it's hard to see them switching to 0% MT. Manufacturers that are dropping the MT have been offering AT and MT simultaneously and seeing MT take rates dropping.
I'm glad that you're happy with your car. Unfortunately, Subaru may want something better. Almost good enough is not enough. And, Subaru's existing EyeSight system is, incontrovertibly, better that your system. That's not to mention the changes coming that will make the current EyeSight passť.

I've been forecasting this for years... but what do I know. Right?
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:41 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
I'm glad that you're happy with your car. Unfortunately, Subaru may want something better. Almost good enough is not enough. And, Subaru's existing EyeSight system is, incontrovertibly, better that your system. That's not to mention the changes coming that will make the current EyeSight passť.

I've been forecasting this for years... but what do I know. Right?
Personally, I'm just happy that the system in my car is defeatable with the click of one button... I'm not the person to get into a discussion about the merits of the system with, because I don't read about them, care how they function, and especially don't take time to read about multiple systems to compare them. However, anecdotally, I have a good friend who has an outback with eyesight and he complains about its functionality in rain... something that we see a lot of in Seattle... Radar doesn't care about rain, but a camera does. So while tests run on a bluebird day might yield one result, cameras have limitations that radar units do not.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:50 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The 17" BBS wheels on the 2004 STI were 15.7 lbs each. The 19" wheels on the 2018+ STI are 28.4 lbs. That's 12.7 lbs more per wheel.. a total of 50.8 lbs more rotational mass. That's certainly significant enough to impact acceleration, braking, and steering. Then factor in the extra ~200 lbs of curb weight.

The 18" BBS wheels on the 2015 STI are in the middle at 22.1 lbs. Its 0-60 was 4.6 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.2 sec (same as the 2004 STI). The brake rotors have also gotten larger (and likely heavier).

I can't find the source, but recall a MotorTrend employee stating that the 18+ models with the fully electronic center differential prevented them from being able to launch the car hard compared to the earlier models. He claimed that it would bog no matter how hard they tried to launch it.

Below are Car and Driver's performance numbers:

2004 STI
MSRP ~$32k
300 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 14.5 psi)
300 LB-FT @ 4000 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2 sec
Skidpad: 0.90 G
Braking: 60-0 111 ft (70-0 166 ft)
Curb weight: 3260 lbs
LB/HP: 10.87

2019 STI
MSRP ~$37k
310 HP @ 6000 rpm (@ 16.2 psi)
290 LB-FT @ 4000-5200 rpm
0-60 mph: 5.4-5.7 sec
5-60 mpg: 6.9 sec
1/4 mile: 13.9 sec
Skidpad: 0.93 G
Braking: 60-0 109 ft (70-0 158 ft)
Curb weight: 3446 lbs
LB/HP: 11.12

The numbers have gotten worse in almost every aspect since 2004.. especially if you factor in the advancements in tire design/compound over the last 15 years.. The safety, interior, ride quality, and handling have certainly improved, but it actually accelerates slower due to the added curb weight, unsprung rotational mass, etc.

And yes.. I still bought my '19 STI despite this A performance spec sheet doesn't tell the whole story. I love my '19 STI and the raw, mechanical driving feel that it offers. That, combined with its practicality, is largely why I bought it. There aren't many cars left that offer this experience, especially as a package with AWD, 4 doors, and a manual transmission. The only other car left in that segment is the Golf R.. and most prefer that with the DSG. The manual transmission is a dying breed because they're slower, people are lazy and electric cars are the way of the future.

We won't see any real performance changes for the 2020 model. We'll have to wait and see what the 2021 STI brings. Hopefully it's at least as fast as the S209, but with a smaller price tag.
Yea what he said. Despite all this I take delivery of a 19 STI in like two weeks. Already have way lighter wheels and tires, so that should help a bit.

0-60 are very objective based on tires used, conditions etc, but this gives you a good idea of the changes throughout the years.

I think the 06 STI was a sub 12 second car (12.8) on the 1/4. Big differences in chassis and other components, but same engine.
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